So...



I realize it's Shin-kaya, which is really Spruce, rather than Chinese Kaya (Japanese Kaya would be prohibitively expensive--up of half a million dollars). Still, one day, when I cross 1 dan, when I'm that strong, if I feel I've put that much into it, I think I'll drop the $1800 on a proper, high-grade Go set. It won't help me play better; but at that point, I'll have already put all that into it, with the thousands of hours of study and game time and meditation and personal improvement required to improve my game.

Once I've put the work in, I'll buy the nice set. It's of no use if it doesn't reflect on me; fancy, expensive toys are worthless and wasteful.



I'm not buying this today, either.

I think, maybe next year, if I'm still commuting, if my commuting miles go up, if I've made the summer and the winter, at least 8 months, maybe pushed more than 150 miles per month (theoretically, my commute is a minimum of 280 miles/month), gotten stronger ...

... maybe I'll buy a Trek Portland.

It's a $1700 bike.

I'm not doing that now. I might do that next year though. It's too much for me right now ... too much money, it reflects in workmanship though ...

... but it doesn't reflect me.

But if I do, say, 50% of my yearly commute-- 13 x 280 / 2 == 1820 miles/year --or more, I could probably justify it. It would seem appropriate to buy something of meaningful quality at that point. My GT Tachyon is perfectly functional--so is my bamboo board with Yunzi stones. That's not the point.

Should I do it? Would you buy a Portland if you had the money? More importantly, would you not buy a Portland if you were going to spend the money and had nothing else particularly interesting in your sights?

...or maybe one of these:

https://www.rivbike.com/products/show...rameset/50-700

I remember somebody on this forum loves the Portland. Those fenders sure must work better than I would think they do, for it to be named after the Oregon city. I think it's fun to imagine and think about the bike/s I may get if I demonstrate to my satisfaction that I'm serious about this bike riding thing. This forum gives me way too many ideas for ways to spend money: Surley LHT, the Portland, the various Salsa models, and so it goes.

<raises hand>

That would be me.

The Portland's quick-release Bontrager Satellite "fenderettes" are on my Ti roadie in the three-seasons. It wears Crud Roadracers in the winter. I like the Satellites as an occasional-use, whoops-got-caught-in-the-rain quick-release don't-need-'em-today fender. (They're a hyphenated fender.) My Portland has worn full fenders since day one.


I bought my 2006 Portland as a leftover late in 2007, just before the 2008s came out. We have 4 years and over 12,000 miles together, mainly commuting, and it's gone on some vacations with me too. It shares mileage with three other bikes in the fleet, but if I could own only one bike, it would be the Portland. It's good enough at everything I do, it does everything I need it to do, and it does it without complaint.

These two pieces summarize my initial feelings on the Portland:

• Passing the Test -- Impressions from the test ride
• Superlative -- After the first couple of weeks

Since then, very little has changed in my opinion of it. With the 2008 models, they resolved the rear brake cable routing issue I had. The 2009 and 2010 models dropped off my recommended list due to downgraded brakes, and issues I had with the stock paired-spoke wheels.

The 2011 Portland is back on my recommended list now that they've restored Avid BB7s to the parts spec and replaced the wheels. The included rack is a nice little extra too.

Still, the $1,700 price tag scares many people off, especially if they look at it only as a 9-speed aluminum bike. If you lump it in with other 9-speed aluminum bikes, you can save over $1,000 for something else. And it will ride like a cheap bike too. Trust me on this, I also own a cheap aluminum bike.

You don't buy a Portland for its component spec, you buy it for its frame. I still maintain there's magic in that frame. Since I bought my Portland I've acquired a top notch steel bike (Reynolds 853 tubing) and a titanium bike that has a legendary reputation for all day comfort.

My Portland rides better than either one. I really appreciate that after a long day at work. The last thing I want is to get beat up on the way home. The Portland sees to it that I'm not.

Beyond its ride, what I like about the Portland is its handling. It holds its line like that was its only mission. I can sneeze, look at my watch, wipe rain from my glasses or snot from my nose and the bike is still on the same track when I'm done. It corners in the same manner as well.

Yet, unlike other bikes known for their tracking, it's easy to dart around glass or potholes with the Portland—even when they appear in the middle of a corner.

All that is in the geometry somewhere, and I don't know enough about it to say which aspects are responsible for its behavior. I just know I like the results.

The other thing about its geometry is how it carries loads in the rear. I can load it up with a week's worth of groceries, and except for when I put a foot down at a stop, it's like they aren’t even there. The bike tracks, corners and even darts around road hazards as if the panniers were empty.

The Portland's stability is particularly welcome in the winter with the studded snows on. It's not the least bit skittish in the slush, snow and ice. Like most bikes, it is subject to some sideslip on hardpack. But it's never thrown me in winter and I've never walked it due to losing either confidence or traction.

That's why you buy a Portland--the frame and the geometry. In its intended role as a high-speed all-conditions commuter and general all 'rounder, it's a helluva bike.

That's quite a speech, and from someone who regularly rides a handful of good bikes that's impressive.

If I break 2000 miles this year I guess I'll pick one up. $1700 isn't that much, it's just a lot for a toy. I have a bike, it gets me to work; but even as a commuter, if I drive my car 3 times as much as I bike, why the hell would I own a $1700 bike? It's just going to deteriorate in my garage, without maintenance because I don't feel like paying money to upkeep something I barely use.

But if I'm putting down mileage, and I'm still doing it--or doing more of it--8, 10 months from now, then the bike will fall well out of the toy category, and far away from passing fad. Given that I've done 500 miles in the past 3 months and I'm starting to bike commute more, I'll probably actually see that happen; but I'm looking forward to the winter, since I hate the cold and I'll be interested to see what happens then. Balaclava is also on my list of stuff to buy....

I'm still trying to do a month without a fill-up. I came down to 1/4 tank today; i started the month with excessive driving and wasted 1/4 tank too, plus I've been struggling with some insomnia and also today I disabled my bike and had to drive it to the bike shop to get it fixed :| Next month though. I'm close, and almost faster to get to work by bike than by car these days ... this should be fun.

Now let's see if I'm still saying the same next year.

Interesting analogy. Even so, I don't think the thing that separates the Trek Portland from the GT Tachyon is how serious their respective riders are. I also don't think bikes at any level have quite the mystical/intangible quality that fuel a quest for authenticity would lead a person to buy an $1800 Go set (Rivendell riders may disagree). It's true that some bikes (like some sports cars) are chosen based on who the owner would like to be (or like people to think he is), but rarely based on who the owner truly believes himself to be. A bike properly chosen is chosen because it is functional, not because it is in deep harmony with the reality of who you are.

Do you commute 10+ miles, often in rain? Then you don't need to wait until you done it 100 times to buy the Portland. Do you aspire to ride in the rain but often drive instead? Maybe wait.

At the heart of what you're saying, I hear that you just aren't sure how committed you are to bike commuting. If that's true, you should definitely keep riding the Tachyon until you're more certain. That would also give you a better sense of what you actually want your next bike to be.

Would I buy a Portland if I had the money? Probably not. Though I do commute 10+ miles, often in rain, I put a disc fork on my CX bike and achieved the same purpose. Plus, that bike better reflects who I am.

If you're asking about the Go set and you know how to play, I say buy it. Everybody should be extravagant sometime.

I have the same sentiments as OP. I can't rationalize buying a nicer bike until I prove to myself that my dedication is worth it. I'm really bad at go (but still really enjoy it), but still want a nice set, if for nothing else as a way to introduce people to the game. It doesn't hurt that it looks really good too.

I don't think what you spend on a ride denotes how serious you are. If you can swing it though you should go for it. If you use it, it's worth it, even if you're just a weekend warrior. I myself want a Trek 520 but can't seem to scrape enough together for one, but if I could I'd get a Riv and park it in my living room so I can stare at it. Maybe ride it sometime, but it'll be fine in the living room.

That's a nice looking Go set. I love Go but I could never get that good at it. My younger cousins who grew up playing with their dad already being good at it could beat me whilst barely watching the board.

I don't know anybody there and am not a customer, but from reading Rivendell's web site I have to think that they might be offended by that. On the other hand I wonder if they would even sell a bike to somebody like me who can't keep a bike clean....

I wouldn't but I am pretty cheap. I have this 1987 Schwinn Le Tour thats the best feeling road bike I have ever ridden and while it was only $100 I am glad I stumbled upon it and not sold it yet in search of something better. This is just where I am at.

I'm pretty rich ... I live like a college kid but have a real job making real money. Gotta pay off that car... I'm always cutting expenses, trying to lower my food budget, buy better stuff that'll last longer, etc... but I live in luxury. Good food, good clothes, good car ... everything must be of a quality that is both pleasant and durable, but not overly lavish.

The Portland is not a $10,000 Carbon Fiber Lance Armstrong bike.

It's a good bike, near as I can tell.

So, this follows well with the pattern; although I have a pretty decent bike that also follows that pattern. As well, the Go set is not overly lavish, but it is beyond my immediate need, and I have something decent and fully enjoyable (whereas a plastic magnetic set would be a significant grievance, without a luxurious feel at all; my $128 Yunzi/Bamboo set is extremely pleasant in all ways, even though it's not solid half-million-dollars-worth-of-kaya with $1000 shell and slate stones).

I'm surprised so many people responded directly to the Go analogy. I didn't realize so many people played. For those who said you're "not good," it's possible to be "good" at Go and not high-level. Do you hop from nose to tail on your bike across rocks to cross ponds? Do you pop up on the front wheel and spin the bike around yourself? Make the bike back flip? Bunny hop over 5 foot high walls? Yet you consider yourself "good at biking" I'm sure.

At 10k.. sorry, now 9k, I consider myself "good at Go," but I have a long way to go. Don't discount yourself because you are only at a certain level; you have room for advancement in all paths you've chosen to walk in life, but that doesn't mean you're not "good" at anything. I am not "good at Go" because I'm 9k; I'm "good at Go" because I can play well at the level of 9k. Some people cannot play well at the level of 9k, but that is their rank; they make silly mistakes they shouldn't, they're thoughtless, and they don't understand what they're doing wrong in any capacity.

If you are unsatisfied with your rank, study hard and play more. Otherwise, play at your rank well, and you will both enjoy playing well (at your rank) and also naturally advance (more slowly). It's the same as with biking, with painting, with brewing tea ... you wouldn't say you're "not good at biking" because you can't do what Lance Armstrong can do, or you can't ride around a pool or a half pipe like you own it. You wouldn't say you're "not good at tea" because you can't make a cup of tea half as good as mine from the very same tin of leaves.


... enough of that.

Anyway, true to form, and to that of Go analogies, I tend to think that such upgrades and luxuries are a thing of balance, and of that between body and spirit: I bought my first bike 3 months ago and didn't need the absolute best I could get, and I still don't need the absolute best I can get right now. When it has become an integral part of my life enough that I feel this is a significant part of me, and not just a peripheral accessory for me to show off, then the spirit and the body are in tune, and the purchase of a high-end bike that I feel fits my lifestyle and reflects well on me will serve both.

Anyway, interesting responses, especially the indirect ones. Now I have much more to think about.


Also, re ajamaes: I have this set, but I got it from their ebay store (free shipping) and there is a 3/4 inch (board thickness) version that's $70-ish. The thicker board is more substantial in terms of mass (steady when stones are hitting it, so everything stays stable) and the depth of the 'clack' made as the stone impacts the board; but the material is not particularly good for its acoustic qualities (shin-kaya, chinese kaya for that).

I was actually thinking about this last night on the way home, the idea of finding alignment between "who you are" and a bike. I think it's the wrong approach, primarily because it depends on a false view of the concept of "who you are."

Who are you? Right now, you're a person sitting at a computer reading Bike Forums. When you're done, you'll be something else. The Trek Portland is a tool. It can be used well, used poorly or not used at all. The finest point is met when you use the bike to its best potential (which in the case of the Portland includes neither climbing the Col du Tourmalet nor doing tricks on a half pipe). When you are riding the Portland through suburban traffic (despite the name, it's definitely not an urban bike), rolling gracefully over broken pavement and puddles, when you are "in the momment", you are, at least for that moment, truly a bike commuter...even if you've never done it before and will never do it again.

Can you be that person with your Tachyon? Yes. Depending on the situation, the Tachyon may even be a more intrinsically suited to the moment. In other situations, the Portland will magnify the moment more perfectly.

Right now, you are a person with money. You can save it (and later you will be a person with more money). You can spend it. You can give it away. It's up to you to perceive which of these choices is the best expression of the moment.

It's not just a bike, but everything. My bike could be adjusted better, fitted to me more properly. It's a fine tool.

When I began playing guitar, it was difficult, and I had to make my fingers move. I still do that, and with piano as well. But as I progress--especially with piano, which seems to be my most identifying instrument, minimal study at a couple hours a week for a month or two gives me more advancement than most people will see in half a year of daily practice--it becomes less of a tool. The guitar isn't even there these days; I'll start singing, and my guitar will just emit music without me bothering with it. With a piano, I struggle for 10 minutes to learn a new song, and then just sort of play it (at my skill level)... hands just go where they want, and the right thing comes out, while I coast along for the ride.

Martial artists have known this for years. Some of us fight with our bodies, our fists; some of us find an extension in a staff or a sword, where our fists work perfectly well but we find that this particular implement flows exactly as well with our spirit. The means of war are not the sole expression of a human being, though; nor are the arts. People find harmony with the preparation of food, tea, of their gardens, of the natural scenery they walk through; Japanese warriors would go out into battle, then come home to don soft robes and tend gardens and gaze at flowering trees and acknowledge the gentle lives of butterflies and small animals with a strange fondness.

A bicycle as a tool is still only a step above a bicycle as a toy, you know. It is a crude thing you manipulate to make your way. Those who train will use the bicycle as a means of encountering resistance; but there is a difference between a man who fights the hill and a man who fights the bicycle which becomes more difficult to make to move up the hill. And still, there are those who don't even see the bicycle: they attack the hill, and when it becomes difficult they completely forget that they are working against the bicycle and simply reflex to shift gears because that is what they know and feel, because they understand that it is time, not because they feel the pedals getting too stiff to move. They are a part of the bicycle-rider system and of the act of bicycling, not a participant.

You are right to dispel a large amount of magical and mystical idealism that holds no meaning; but there is a lot of hidden meaning in the world, and most of it is very personal. Gatherings of men and women to come together and draw raw power from the universe ... not so much. Big speeches (like this here), solutions to the world's problems ... such things convey almost nothing. But there is a very personal perspective which can be studied and expanded; meditation, introspection, enlightenment, all such things follow this. It's no fantastic magic, only a quiet whisper.

You talk about false views of "who you are." Maybe you should sit down and try to truly understand "who you are" one day. You may find that it takes more than just one day... it takes a lifetime, and it's constantly changing, partly just because that is the nature of being, and partly because deeper understanding of yourself helps you to follow a path more directly and thus encourages you to refine yourself.

It was .. something I stumbled across when I stopped worrying about everyone else and found myself with a lot of time to think about me. There were many barriers: I spent years contemplating the nature of desires of all kinds, and the nature of selfishness and selflessness, and their inherent relationship; eventually I reached a conclusion which opened the way for further development. There will always be a disturbing juxtaposition that touches you in a personal way somewhere early in if you follow that path of personal development. It will probably be different than mine; it will likely stall you for years, and demand your attention for a while, until you become enlightened. Then you can start.

That is not to say you are inherently wrong; note I haven't made a decision precisely for the reason you stated. The bike's nice; but there is an understanding of self that I'm crudely groping at, that I wish to attain first. It answers the question of "why," not by excuses and justifications but instead simply and completely; this answer cannot be voiced or described, only known. Crude attempts and numbers have been given, but many other things will happen in that time to necessarily get me to that point.

With many fine words
Both of us say the same thing
Yet we disagree

The pseudo-intellectualism in this thread has broken my meter.

I stopped reading after the OP stated that he lives in luxury with a Mazda 3 that is yet unpaid for.

Hehe... I was wondering when that would be brought up. I do not judge one based on their possessions... until they brag about them.

And we didn't even have to talk quantum physics to do that.

But there are things about you - much of your personality - that don't change a whole lot over the course of your life. Moods come and go, but things like how introverted or extroverted you are, how much you value humor vs how sensitive you are to other peoples' mental states ( I heard of a pair of twins who would both pretend to sneeze in elevators to startle people ) and the like are pretty stable. If you're buying a bike because it resonates with the long lasting aspects of your personality, I think that's pretty wonderful.

As an example, I need to upgrade my cracked frame, and am trying to choose between two different models. The guy at the LBS, who knows me fairly well, told me "I recommend X to most people, and ride one myself, but Y is a better match for your riding personality." X is faster and has looks and features that drop more jaws, but Y handles better, climbs better, and is more comfortable. When I test rode my road bike, a big smile broke out across my face, because of that resonance.

I don't understand what makes the Trek Portland a $1,700 bike, though.

The $1,200 pricepoint is full of similiar bikes. I too don't know what makes the Trek $1,700 but at $1,200 there's the Raleigh Sojourn, Raleigh Clubman, Salsa Casseroll, Masi Speciale, and of course the Surly Crosscheck.

I’m in, what is your favorite derivation of the Schrödinger wave equation?

It's true. There are characteristics of our incarnation which present (or withhold) certain opportunities for resonance. And so, even for the same task the perfect bike for me may not be the perfect bike for you. I have to grant that that is true.

No, no, no. This is pseudo-intellectualism. We could debate the Copenhagen interpretation vs. the many-worlds theory, but if you're going to bring actual math into it we'll be dangerously close to crossing into the realm of actual knowledge, and we'll all be wishing we hadn't made the observation that collapsed the wave function into this reality.

The Trek Portland is nice. Another very similarly specced bike is the Jamis Aurora Elite. https://www.jamisbikes.com/usa/thebik...roraelite.html

The main difference is that the Aurora Elite has a compact double in the front, and a 10 speed cassette in the rear (11-34). The Portland has a 'road triple' in the front, and a 9 speed 11-26 cassette in the rear. They both come with rear racks (the Aurora also includes bungees) and 'half' fenders. Both are also around $1700.