When it's your bike that gets stolen, come back and tell us how stupid we are for advocating swift retribution.

Wow. It must feel amazing to be the only smart person among so many stupid people. Wow..

Kalifornia code place the private use of pepper spray in much the same category that the rest of the country place the use of guns... In other words, you must fear for your life or serious injury. Kalifornia, like far too many states, does not allow citizens to use force to protect property...

"Use of tear gas or a tear gas weapon, EXCEPT in self defense, can be a felony. (California Penal Code Section 12403.7)"

http://www.softspain.com/images/p0l0/ep3/sidious2.jpg

One thing I've learned about bikeforums, people get pissed off when they talk about bike theft.

Well, if you're not stealing, you don't have anything to worry about ;)

And in regard to the OP, I probably would have tried to deliver a knockout punch to the jaw to get him off the bike, and might have tripped over his face a few times.

That's interesting, considering the fact that it is highly unlikely to cause permanent or lethal damage.

Good on the woman. The guys were totally useless. They didn't even try to take his tools while they were at his feet. Urgh.

How about you look up the laws on making a citizen's arrest and then come back and tell me how using pepper spray in the act of making a citizen arrest is illegal.

Hint: use of force is allowed during a citizen's arrest and pepper spray is considered a use of force.

In America, it is legal in every state that I know of to use force to make a citizen's arrest to keep the criminal in the area long enough for the police to arrive. This criminal could try to sue in civil court afterwards but he won't win.

Now if this happened in the UK then things are different. They coddle their criminals more there.

I suggest you actually try conducting a citizens arrest, before you spout off... I'm sure that Kalifornia provides internet service to prisoners...

What I described, was described to me after I used pepper spray on some bum that threatened me at Jack London square in Oakland.., It was explained to me by the cop who came when I called it in... Who also then listened to the "bum" explain that he didn't threaten me, but was simply looking for "money for food"... Kalifornia has some of the most imbecilic laws in the country...

Actually there are many cases in the US where the "criminal" did in fact sue and win... Citizen's arrest are generally considered "blue laws" much like the anti-sodomy laws in the south... Given the state your in I would put the odds in the favor of the criminal--even if they had a rap sheet a mile long and you had video evidence supporting your "arrest"...

Yes, well it is Kalifornia...

That is one of the reasons I live in Texas... One of the few areas of the country where individuals can use lethal force to protect property (at least in some circumstances)...

Actually Cameron recently stated those that use lethal force to protect their homes won't be prosecuted after a couple high-profile cases caused public outcry.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...osecution.html

http://www.billiebadd.com/wp-content...11/05/fail.jpg

Why does that guy keep mispelling California with a K? Is he being "kewl" or trying to take the piss?

I've never heard an explanation for it, but I understand it to be an oblique reference to a socialist state - "The People's Republik of Kalifornia".

I may be wrong on this, though.

First off, you can't just pepper spray random bums even if they threaten you. As you found out first hand, it turns into he said, she said. If charges were filed against you, it was your own fault.

You assume a familiarity with me that I am unaware of. How do you know me again?

As a matter of fact, I have performed a citizen's arrest when I caught a teenage punk in the middle of the night trying to steal my car. He tried to run, I pushed him back into the car then I informed him that the police were on their way and that he was to stay. He then came towards me again so I pepper sprayed him. 5 minutes later the police where at my house and they easily cuffed the punk and took him to juvenile hall.

No law suite or any other charges were filed against me and the kid got a few months in JH and a couple years of probation until he turned 18. The police officers that responded said that I did everything right.

The criminal can sue and win if excessive force is used. You can't beat someone to a pulp while trying to arrest them unless you have a gold badge.

You can put an arm lock on them and hold them until the police arrive. If they fight against you, then you are within your rights to defend yourself.


All of this sympathy for criminals is surprising. How many of you sympathizers think the woman in the video should be charged with battery for knocking the thief off the bike?

Yeah, if he's not a complete idiot, he probably learned that stealing from the same set of racks on multiple occasions over a short period of time is a good way to draw unwanted attention and get caught. Then again, I doubt he's a got a lot going for him upstairs.

He may have simply decided that he needs to be better armed.

I seriously doubt he's given up his life of crime and is now an upstanding citizen.

Texas is so much easier. If someone is stealing your stuff you just shoot them. Their bike stealing career is over, end of story!

Mutt

+1

It's the bicycle owners' faults for not securing their bikes better, no doubt.

(Paintball justice FTW btw.)

*backs slowly out of thread* :p

I was not only smiling, I was laughing with glee. My favorite part was when he pulled a knife and got sprayed. SWEET ACTION!!!

Who's sympathizing with the criminals? Vigilante justice is wrongdoing on the vigilante's part.

You were lucky you weren't sued... Doesn't mean that you couldn't have been... and that you wouldn't loose...

I didn't pepper spray a random bum, I pepper sprayed a bum who accosted me, threatened me, and then followed me through the nearly empty streets on my way back to the hotel, then after being warned to keep his distance, approached me in menacing manner... Frankly he was lucky he wasn't back in Texas with me, where my defense option would not have been non-lethal... It was the cop who explained California code, which I later confirmed...

Laws covering citizens arrest are considered "blue laws" for a reason. A citizen has none of the protections against liability that a police officer has. In short, even if the "arrest" is warranted, you can be successfully sued for that arrest and any issues the person wishes to claim...

A "criminal" can sue for just about any cause, whether real or imagined. And read the california code, use of pepper spray is classed in the same way as deadly force---which by definition is "excessive" and illegal in california to protect property... And since you seem to be backing away from the pepper spray argument, your arm lock and defending yourself isn't likely to help you when their lawyer paints you as a vigilante who misinterpreted their actions and started the violence...

Oh, and I have no sympathy for thieves (of any kind), one of the reasons I live in Texas, where lethal force is an option to protect property..

In the Old West, horse thieves were treated harshly, and it was considered the worst sort of thievery. In modern times, that sentiment has transferred somewhat to car thieves. But bicycle thieves are not treated with the same level of contempt, even though, to a bicycle commuter, they should be.

It is rather strange that you assume you know California law better than a person who used the law. Use of pepper spray is not the same as using lethal force and is not even close. I'm not "backing off" of the pepper spray use at all. I have used it, and I recommend the use of it when appropriate. I used the example of an arm lock as another method of using force that is perfectly legal.

As far as some scum bag trying to sue me in court for pepper spraying them or putting an arm lock on them, it is possible but highly unlikely that it will ever happen. It didn't happen when I pepper sprayed that punk car thief kid and I doubt it will ever happen. Lawyers are not dumb and they are not going to take a case they know they will lose. The first question that will be asked to their client is, "what were you doing when you got pepper sprayed?" Answer: I was stealing the defendant's bike. Next case.

How about this, I won't lecture you on Texas laws and you don't lecture me on California law.