johnfelix

Building a commuter for my wife that will be based around a Soma Buena Vista frame [sized for 26" wheels] that arrived last week.
I am intending to use 8 speed internal hub gears & rim brakes.
Is there any reason to prefer the Shimano Alfine over the Nexus hub?
Some reviews suggest the Alfine is lighter [by how much?]
Some say it's smoother while others claim they have the same internals.

John

amckimmey

I'm interested to see what people have to say. I would like to upgrade my girlfriends Nexus3 to an Alfine 8 or 11

This shows it as the same ratios at least
https://www.fallbrooktech.com/Docs/GearInch_32011.pd

I think when the Alfine with comeing out a couple years ago they were saying it was faster and smoother shifting. Probably lighter, I dought you could tell much difference between the two.

MichaelW

There are different versions of Nexus. I believe the latest version SG-8R36 with the red band, is comparable in quality to Alfine, ie internal bearings, seals etc.

johnfelix

In Australia Shimano currently list two versions:
- the SG-8C20 [NEXUS 8-speed Internal Hub with Coaster Brake]
- the SG-8R25 [NEXUS Inter-8 Internal Hub - Premium Version]
It is the SG-8R25 that interests me and is the one I had been led to believe was the red band version
Kinda frustrating to find there is an updated version not listed in Australia
Oh well with help I may make sense of all this
Thanks
John

Transformer

The nexus premium (red band) is comparable to the Alfine. The only advantage of the Alfine 8 is the option to use disc brakes.

Mr IGH

Even though it has a red band, the Nexus 8R25 is not the same as the Alfine. It the newer 8C31, 8R31 and 8R36 that you want, the have the same internals and good sealing as the Alfine 501:
https://bike.shimano.com/publish/cont...een%20Hubs.pdf

Aushiker

Hi

There has been a bit of a discussion at the Australian Cycling Forums on this very topic. My take on the discussion is that the Afline is a better option.

Andrew

carfreephilly

I've ridden bikes with both the Nexus 3 and the Alfine 8 extensively, but not the Nexus 8, so I can't compare the two directly. I will say that the Alfine is infinitely smoother and quieter than the Nexus 3. If the price difference isn't an issue, i would absolutely go with the Alfine based on my experience.

amckimmey

Tell me about the bike more if you don't mind. What size is the frame? I thought the were build for 700tires. How tall is your wife? I would love to see the build. I would love to upgrade my girlfriends bike. She has a Linus Mixte right now. But there is only so much you can do with that frame.

johnfelix

Aushiker
Yeah it was me who started that thread on Australian Cycling Forums
I've been trying to make sense of the hubs' relative merits for a while
Thanks to that forum and now this one its becoming a little clearer
Far clearer than it was relying on Shimano advertising
Thanks for the posts

amckimmey
At the risk of hijacking my own thread...
Soma Buena Vista
50-58cm models use 700c wheels
42cm model uses 26" wheels
https://www.somafab.com/bvista.html
My wife is just over 5' so the frame geometry works
Photos of the build will come - some time down the track
First I have to sort this out, possible braze ons, sandblasting, powdercoating duck-egg blue, then the build begins
John

Mr IGH

Not much Alfine/Nexus adverts stateside, this Shimano website does documents the upgrades to the newest Alfines and Nexus hubs.
https://bike.shimano.com/publish/cont...een%20Hubs.pdf

The Alfine 501, Nexus 8C31, 8R31 and 8R36 hubs are Shimano's newest version of their 8-speed IGH. The Nexus 8R25 is an older, not-so-well sealed version, I'd stay away from it if inclement weather is the norm. Oz is pretty dry, you might get away with an 8R25, could be worth trying if you can build your own wheels.

irwin7638

I've used, and don't reccommendthe nexus hubs. They turned into a nightmarefor me. I like the nuvinci unit I used on my Buena Vistabut I think Sturmey Archer makes the really reliable units,with a proven track record.

Marc

tjspiel

Do you know which generation of the hub you were using? Was it one with the better seals?

irwin7638

It was a 2007 model but the seals meant nothing. The retaining pin which holds the gear cluster in place is what broke. Shimano does not produce a replacement or substitute.

Marc

Mr IGH

It's not even a red band version, looking at the pictures in your blog it's clear the hub had a tough life, your chain is covered in rust and the the hub's dive-side seal is breached. In your internals picture there's no lube at all. IGHs do require some maintenance, I hope your new hub gets some.

BTW, Sturmey is no walk in the park, the original 8 speed is replaced, the 7 speed was pulled from the market, my 2003 version of the 5 speed hub is now an orphan, no spares to be had. The new 5 speed is supposed to have a weak internal component that renders the hub useless after a short use interval. And then there's SACHS/SRAM failures...IGHs are not for the naive and un-initiated.

Steely Dan

i can't comment on nexus vs. alfine as i've only ridden an alfine-equipped bike, but on the subject of IGHs, i have a tangential question that one of our IGH experts here may be able to shed some light on.

Does it at all help the overall health of an IGH to start out in the "direct drive" gear when accelerating from a dead stop? or is the gear you start in from a dead stop completely inconsequential in terms of keeping the IGH happy?

johnfelix

Thanks for the posts
I'm going with Alfine 501 8 speed
John

irwin7638

Actually the right hand seal was dislodged after the ring broke and the gear cluster shifted. The corrosion you see is the common weekly garden variety found on bikes ridden in Michigan winters. That model of hub also came with a disclaimer warning against"preventive"maintenance. I understand they've since changed their tune. The truly disappointing part was that Shimano offered no suggestion bwyond buying a new unit when only one small part was broken.

Marc

Mr IGH

It's clear from your picture of the internals your hub's seals had been breached. Your hub's lubrication was long gone and salt water had replaced it. No component will survive this neglect. In your blog you express extreme disillusionment with your hub, how long did you expect it to last with no maintenance? If not 4 years, would 6 years made you happy? Did you expect it to last forever with no maintenance?

This is true for SRAM in North America (I own a $450 im9 kit, no spares, now it's been discontinued). Sturmey has orphaned several hubs and forced users to replace hubs in the last few years.

IGH are not for the naive or uninitiated. None are maintenance free, all require some expertise by the users or a really good LBS.

Sixty Fiver

My wife's bike had a 2007 Nexus hub that died after less than 10,000 miles and have seen far too many of the earlier Nexus hubs die prematurely... the newer Nexus models (red band) seem to be holding up much better and the wife's newer red band has now gone over that 10,000 mile mark and is still going strong... and it sees some hard use.

The Alfine is a better hub and seems to have less issues than the Nexus... will hope that the new 11 speed proves to be as reliable although for my money, and if 3 is all you need, the SA AW is king as no internal hub has had a better track record or been produced for so long. SA stopped making the AW briefly in the mid 50's after nearly 50 years of production and after their intended replacement was a failure resumed production.

The new Sunrace produced SA hubs are as good and in many ways better than the latter production originals... late 40's and 50's hubs were the peak of AW production and are hard to beat.

Don in Austin

If you don't feel free to select whatever gear is best for takeoff from an intersection, much of the advantage of an IGH is gone.

Don in Austin

Mr IGH

Which 2007 model did you have? Was it even the 8R25 or was it the dreaded 8R20? The German IGH crowd were able to nurse the 8R20 along with regular cleaning and oil dipping of the internals. Left alone it's sure to die. But an SA 3 speed hub isn't going to do well with 10K miles and no maintenance either....

Sixty Fiver

Everything needs maintainence... am pretty sure the bike had the dreaded R20.

But an SA AW just needs regular oiling and with that and proper adjustment can run for tens of thousands of km before overhauling is required and then that service is relatively simple and inexpensive and then the hub is good for tens of thousands of km again.

Even with little to no service an AW is a remarkably tough hub that can survive a fair amount of neglect.

Mr IGH

It's the same for an 8R20, but nobody bothered to do it other than the German IGH crowd, which gets back to my comment about IGH not being suitable for the naive or uninitiated. It seems most North American LBS mechanics only like to work what they know, not willing to learn new technologies. Combine that with several IGH screw-up (SA 7/8 speed, Nexus 7/8, SRAM 12 speed and im9) and you have a marketing disaster.

irwin7638

I would expect to be able use the product successfully by following the manufacturers specific instructions. I would also think it reasonable to expect that replacement parts be made available for their products. Apparantly Shimano disagrees.

Marc