no1mad 

I noticed a while back the rear wheel was making a high pitched whine. It was also feeling sluggish. So decided the brakes needed to be adjusted, but had difficulty in avoiding rubbing. Broke the brake noodle and flipped the bike upside down, gave the rear wheel a spin and noticed it wobbling. A hard enough spin and it looked like a sidewinder.

Took it to the LBS to have it trued, but the guy just said it was a broken spoke and replaced that while I waited. Took the wheel home and remounted it and everything was fine- until a few days ago.

I noticed similar whining and observed a slight wobble again. Not as noticeable as the last time, but it is there. I checked all of the spokes and can't find a broken one. I think a couple may be loose- they rub across each other like a bow on a violin- but all are anchored on both ends. Not wanting to risk breaking another spoke, I've been taking my son's BMX for the last three days. BTW, the U-brakes on that thing just SUCK.

Now wondering if just replacing that one spoke without tensioning the others at the time has led to the situation now. Considering getting a spoke wrench and attempting to tighten any loose spokes that I find, but from what little research I've done, just doing that willy nilly could cause even more damage...

Fargo Wolf

I had a problem like that too. I was constantly breaking spokes. It turned out the wheel was buggered (can't remember whether is was worn out, or defective) and needed to be replaced.

johnr783

Dont buy just the spoke wrench, consider buying a truing stand as well.
I learned how to true when I ordered a bike online and the wheel was so out that it wouldnt spin. Took me 2.5 hours to get it but I learned. Now i can true a wheel in about 10 minutes, depending on the wheel. It is a valuable skill. I have trued and respoked wheels about 30 times since for work and personal bikes. Even if each true was $10, I have saved $300+

lostarchitect 

A truing stand is really not necessary to true wheels. Yes, it makes it easier, but it's no big deal to true wheels in the frame or in a spare fork. I build wheels, and I don't own a truing stand.

To the OP, this question might be better suited to the mechanics forum.

buzzbee

I found out that spokes lose tension over time, especially when the wheel is new, and loose tension leads to spoke breakage.
Since I got the spoke tension meter and tightened/trued as needed, I have not broken any spokes (previously it was 10 broken spokes/yr).
Of course, if the wheel/rim is tweaked, that can probably do it too.

CB HI

Just how many wheels have you built and how long did your wheels stay true and not break a spoke?

gmt13

I reckon you could say that a truing stand is not necessary; however it is one of the best investments that I have made. Although I did it way back when, the thought of trying to true a wheel properly while in the frame gives me the shivers now. Yep, you can do it, but it will take you 3 times as long and the results won't be as reliable.

Spokes losing tension is usually the result of improper initial tensioning and stress relief. A properly built wheel will stay true for a long time.

-G

lostarchitect 

So far 4, and they have not gone out of true. I have never broken a spoke, ever, on any wheel.

I'm not saying I'm a pro wheelbuilder. I'm saying you don't need a truing stand to true wheels, or to get into wheelbuilding. It's an expensive item, and you might never use it again. It makes more sense to start out without it, and move up if you start feeling like you could use it.

But thanks for the attitude.

LeeG

I'd consider this wheel your learning experience wheel and be prepared to buy a GOOD replacement wheel as it fails bit by bit. If it's an old wheel with loose spokes that one broken spoke is the beginning of the end.

no1mad 

I ended up just dropping the wheel off at the LBS today. I figured that their knowledge is far superior to mine, and that with my limited vision, I might miss a flat/bad spot on the rim itself.

Hoping that my assessment was accurate and not wasting money, though as old as the bike is, those spokes probably could stand to be re-tensioned anyway. If it's not the rim, then the axle could be bent slightly. I know it's not the brakes rubbing, as I broke the rear noodle before flipping the bike upside down prior to removing the wheel and the wheel was encountering friction somewhere that prevented it from freely spinning.

duffer1960

Ha! I learned the hard way. Began popping spokes, eventually replaced more than half (one trailing drive side, then two, then all the rest, then a few n.d.s., etc.). Then, the eyelet holes in the rim started cracking...

MNBikeguy

It's very unusual to build wheels with the lack of a truing stand. I have a home made plywood spoker, but can't imagine doing this without a stand and dishing bar.

CB HI

Better than the attitude of not letting folks know that the very first wheel you built is only a few months old, while you make appearances of an experienced wheel builder.

prathmann

I agree that it makes sense to at least build one or two wheels before bothering to get a truing stand unless you're really sure that you'll be using it a lot. I built myself a few wheels before seeing a really cheap truing stand for sale (very bare-bones for about $10) that I've been using ever since. My wheels have also held up fine until the rim brake track eventually gets too thin.

I haven't seen much correlation between the quality of wheel builds and the cost of the tools used in the process.

MNBikeguy

You're logic fails. Do you also inflate your tires simply eyeballing the pressure? If you don't get a flat in 500 miles, then proceed to purchase a pump? If you want to build your first wheel, I'd then suggest borrowing a stand before you buy.

I agree the cost is irrelevant.
If you know what you're doing, an inexpensive stand works as well as an expensive one, the process is just not as fast since you usually can only do one side on a cheap one, then need to flip the wheel..

CB HI

There are several good truing stands that can be had for $60 new. If you are ready to start building your own wheels, then you are at the point that buying a truing stand is a smart move.

https://www.amazon.com/Sunlite-Deluxe...sxp_grid_i_1_2

https://www.performancebike.com/bikes..._1030340_-1___

How much have some of you already paid a LBS to build or true wheels. Probably more than the stand would have cost you.

prathmann

If a stand is available to borrow then by all means go ahead and use it. But many cyclists may not have that option. Buying one used at a swap meet or on Craigslist would also be reasonable since much of the cost could then be recovered by reselling it - but again, there may not be one available locally.

What I and lostarchitect were objecting to is the idea that someone who may or may not ever be interested in building another wheel must immediately go out and buy an expensive truing stand. It's perfectly feasible to build a wheel using the bicycle itself as the stand. Not quite as fast or convenient as a regular truing stand but it'll get the job done and give you a good idea if you'll want to do it again often enough to justify the expense of a real stand.

And yes, I frequently inflate a tire while simply "eyeballing" (actually thumb-testing) the pressure. But I'm puzzled by your suggestion that I wait 500 miles before buying a pump since the primary function of the pump is to do the inflating rather than the "eyeballing."

John_1961

Sounds to me like you will need a new rim I tend to brake at least one spoke every year.

tjspiel

You can use your frame as a stand and a few zip ties to act as feeler gauges. For the rear wheel, wrap a zip tie around each chain stay and leave enough of a tail on each of them to contact the rim. By twisting the zip ties slightly you can move the tails closer to or farther away from the rim.

You can also use a third zip tie on the chain stay and mount it close enough to the bridge to that it barely contacts the top edge of the rim when the wheel is spinning. This can be used to detect flat spots. Of course you can move it closer or farther away from the top of the rim as necessary by sliding it along the chain stay.

For checking wheel dish I put a large socket (from a socket set) on a table and set the wheel on top of it with the axle sticking through the hole in the socket to help keep it in place. Then I measure the distance from the rim to the table at a couple of different spots to make sure I have the wheel level. Then I flip the wheel over and measure again to make sure it's the same distance. Then I know the rim is centered.

Of course this takes much longer than it would with a proper stand and dish tool, but wheel building is probably not something I'd do more often than once every few years.

lostarchitect 

What? Actually, a lot of people go by feel when inflating tires, and it works just fine. So your comparison doesn't make much sense.

lostarchitect 

I didn't intend to act like an expert. A lot of people here know I only got into wheelbuilding this year, and I forgot that some people wouldn't know about it. Regardless, my wheels have been ridden and looked at by people who have built hundreds of wheels, and they said I'm doing a great job. While I am not an expert, I do have some experience, and more to the point, I have experience which didn't involve a ton of money up front.

That said, I have trued many more wheels than I have built, going back years. I have never owned a stand, and I have never had an issue with these wheels. That's what I was suggesting the OP do--true his own wheels. And I stand by my statements 100%-- You CAN true (or build) wheels without a truing stand, and you can do a good job at it.

Well, maybe YOU can't, I don't know.

Anyway, for reference, read this: https://miketechinfo.com/new-tech-wheels-tires.htm

A few quotes he uses below.

From: Gerd Schraner's book "The Art of Wheelbuilding"
From Jobst Brandt in his definitive book "The Bicycle Wheel" -

cycle_maven

I'd spend the same money on a tension meter, rather than a truing stand. Sure, the truing stand makes truing easier than using the thumbnail on a brake pad method, but the tension meter will get all the spokes on each side to the same tension, which is way more important than a mm of wobble or a couple mm of dish offset. At least for me.

buzzbee

FYI: In my 30 years of riding and 100K miles on my old mtn bike, I guess I have never had a "properly built" wheel. I also have never built a wheel myself, just tried to keep them true and going. Most front wheels have been fine until the rim wears through, the back wheel was the most problematic in terms of spokes (as expected). All previous wheels have been 32 spoke, the next one I have ready is 36 spoke. My current rear wheel has 16K miles, and is still good, no broken spokes... maybe it was properly built, or it was me re-tensioning spokes from time to time.

MNBikeguy

An interesting and creative method for truing, but I wouldn't build a wheel in this manner.

Truing just gets you back to where you were. When building, it's just too important to get it right the first time. Doesn't mean it should cost a fortune.

lostarchitect 

Maybe you should try it sometime.