I am searching for a winter commuter frame (my "new" winter commuter didn't work out because of toe overlap). I had found my ideal frame, the origin 8 CX700. Unfortunately, it is between production years, so unless a shop stocks it (which none of my LBS's do, nor any websites I am familiar with), they can't get it. What I am looking for is...
1. Disc brake mounts
2. 700c/29er, with 40mm + fenders clearance minimum (more, like 2" is better)
3. Able to work with drop bars-I am willing to use a weird stem and stack of spacers if need be
4. Preferably horizontal dropouts so I can go SS if I feel like converting for the summer
5. Cheaper is better (the CX700 was great value at a $200 price point). I have a Salsa Fargo, which meets all the criteria besides this one and 4, but I don't want to risk the frame to accelerated corrosion by salt.

Of course, if you know of a reputable shop/LBS that has a 56 or 59 cm CX700 (I am between sizes), I would be happy to hear about that too! Thanks!

Get either the Surly LHT or the Ogre!

- Slim

If you're worried about toe overlap, you should consider a bike that's available with 26" wheels like the upcoming Surly Disc Trucker.

Most small-to-medium bikes with 700c wheels have significant overlap when used with 30-40c tires and fenders and average size feet/shoes. If this is something that really concerns you, I'd suggest you run the numbers and/or take some measurements before you commit. 26" is an easy fix if you're willing to consider it. For instance, in Surly's case switching from a 56cm LHT with 700c to a 56cm with 26" wheels increases the toe clip space by about 1.5".

I've got a spreadsheet for calculating all this, but Origin 8 doesn't provide all the numbers I need, so I can't tell you how their CX700 would compare to your Fargo.

Good luck.

Cheap is the trick here, I think. You could do it with a Karate Monkey, though the geometry is a bit off for what you want. The Van Dessel WTF is another option that comes to mind.

Hmm, some good food for thought here. The reason I lean toward 700c/29" is that it would keep my 3-bike stable on the same wheel size, plus I own studded tires (nokian w240, 40mm).

@peterw_diy, what info is missing concerning geometry for the CX 700 to determine toe overlap? To be fair, the bike I tried was a hybrid (schwinn world street), and was a bit on the smaller side for me; I have a Salsa Fargo (size large, 2.1" tires) and Nashbar touring (58cm, 40mm or 32mm tires), neither of which has toe overlap issues. I would be interested in that spreadsheet so I can compare possible frames with what I have, if you are willing to share it.

I have considered the Surly frames. They are a bit cheaper than my Salsa, but I am not sure that the cost to "having another bike in the house" ratio is good enough for my wife. The longer I go at this, the more I am talking myself into riding my Fargo all winter. Thanks all for your feedback so far.

Titanium, since it's not my money .. cures road salt damage problems,
of at least the Frame
but more pragmatic,
my Studded tire bike has SA Drum Brakes, and I have used a Beater frame,
It did not have disc mounts, still the kind of braking I need on ice,
easily modulated smooth.. , when the street is black ice and walking is sketchy.

this spring , I'm going to tear it down and rattle can some paint on.

Van Dessel WTF meets all your requirements (EBB instead of the dropouts but same function), framesets like 650 if I remember correctly

My Karate Monkey is a do all bike, very versatile.

I picked up an On One Dirty Disco for winter commuting. It has been a great frame so far, except for the lack of dropouts. It's $799 for both frame and fork.

On One Dirty Disco

I don't know how reputable they are but it seems to be in stock here. Looks like you'd have to pick it up, though.

The total wheelbase. My spreadsheet's on another computer, but the basic idea is that from the BB drop and chainstay length you can calculate how much of the wheelbase is behind the BB. With that and the total wheelbase, you can calculate how much of the wheelbase is ahead of the BB. With that and the BB drop, you can calculate the distance from BB to front wheel axle. All this is simple substraction & application of the Pythagorean theorem. Subtract from that front axle-BB distance the crank length and radius of the front wheel + tire + fender and you get the amount of "toe space" (max distance that your toe/toe clip can be forward of the pedal spindle without any overlap). It's not perfect -- for one thing, the higher your crankset's tread/Q factor, the more toe space you'll have. For the CX700, I'm sure you could do some slightly more advanced geometry (sin/cos/tan) and estimate the toe space for a normal fork (crown-to-axle and offset being the important attributes).

Good idea. Then you can say to your wife, "Look Honey, the Fargo is destroyed. Now I have to get a titanium frame."

I'll probably get called a BD shill, but whatevs.

Gravity Zilla Monstercross.

Pros: Cheap, fits big tires, aluminum

Cons: Components probably sub-par compared to your other bikes, no idea about toe overlap, aluminum.

Figure assembly or a tune-up at a shop if you're not into it, and you get a complete bike for less than the cost of other frames you're looking at.

Hmm... I like your thinking (though if I were mountain biking at the time, it could be a very long walk out). Anyone have any experience with lifespan of a steel frame subjected to salt & freeze/thaw? I've had a used frame break due to rust, as has a friend who rides year-round, but neither of us knows the history of our bikes (were they ridden in the winter previously or not?). Of course, I assume a large portion of this is how thick tubing is and how it is ridden. Since the Fargo gets used as a Mt bike...

Thanks for the recommendation-it fits most of my criteria. I have definitely considered it. My biggest reservation is the brakes. The reason I am not just riding my touring bike through the winter (cheap nashbar frame) is that I want discs. I have had a number of occasions during the winter where I had braking issues (going through puddles especially), which good disc brakes should fix. From what I have read, those on this frame are sub-par, so I would be replacing them with avid bb7's, so add $100 to the price tag. Plus I would prefer to round out my ideal list if I am going to add another bike to the stable. Still, hmmm.

surly Ogre + Framesaver = win Although, with your height, the Troll might be a better fit.