I suppose I could look into getting a BMX with bigger wheels. But I think I just want to go with something different. Oddly enough, I haven't seen very many big wheel bmx cruiser type bikes in any of the shops I went to. Actually, it's really weird but I haven't even seen very many BMX bikes in most of the shops I went to.

Quick release (QR) skewers generally used on the seat post and/or the axles.



I'm too lazy to post up a pic- just do a Google Image search for 'quick release skewer'.

I see what you mean, thanks for the clarification.

You are absolutely correct TohTruck. I was giving sizing directions for a MTN bike, NOT a road bike!

With a MTB, the balls of your feet should be able to touch the ground from a seated position.

At first, I was thinking that perhaps the Brougham didn't feel right due to improper sizing. Mentally, I guess I was trying to find fault with the sizing as opposed to the poor-riding Brougham, itself.

This is the correct sizing and fit information regarding seat height.

This is excellent advice for the proper seat height. Follow this information!

I'm starting to think maybe I should save a lil bit of cash and get the Phat Cycles Phixie instead of the Felt Brougham.

So I'm basically stuck between the Phat Cycles Phixie, Felt Brougham, and the Novara Buzz One.

The Phat Cycles Phixie feels similar to riding the Felt Brougham. It looks nice. But I worry that the quality and durability of the bike and the components may not be very good. It doesn't have a front wheel brake. There aren't many reviews on this bike. I only managed to read one fairly in depth review, where the writer replaced a bunch of the stock components anyway. Although since this will be my first road/urban/commuting bike, maybe it is suitable that I go cheap.

The Felt Brougham felt similar to riding the Phat Cycles Phixie. It looks the coolest out of all the bikes. I've been reading positive reviews on it. The store offers free brake and gear adjustments for life, as well as less expensive tune-up costs than REI. But it is the most expensive bike I am considering.

It will probably take a little bit of time getting used to riding the Phixie and/or the Brougham. But I can see myself getting used to it, especially once my fear of street riding with NYC automobiles and crazy cabbies simmers down.

The Novara Buzz One was a very comfortable ride. The REI Satisfaction Guaranteed warranty is awesome. However, while I don't think it's hideous, I do find it to be the least attractive. I dislike the handlebars and if I want it replaced I will probably go through another headache of finding the right handlebar and then either doing it myself or taking it back to REI (not a big deal, but I will probably go crazy finding the right handlebar). After tax it will be about $50 less than that of the Brougham. After finding the right handlebar, and adding cost of labor (or doing it myself), it will come out to just slightly less or the same price as the Brougham. Spray painting it or getting a custom paint job on the bike if I decide to will also add to the cost and headache and might void the REI satisfaction guaranteed warranty.

Decisions decisions...

[QUOTE=Tohtruck;13841500]

I'd hold off on that idea until things have settled a bit.

If the Fixie from Phat Cycles costs more than the Brougham, and you don't like the looks of the Buzz One. I'd say, that pretty much shortens your list for you.

The words "cheap" and "bicycle", should never be used within the same sentence, if you can help it. Just because a bicycle costs less than another doesn't necessarily make it "cheap".

If the Felt Brougham is at the top of your list in terms of having the entire package, then yes, it will be worthwhile. If it's not at the top of your list then it will not be worth the extra cash.

This phenomenon can only be adapted to, it can't be taught. My advice is to meditate every morning, just before you take off, just to center yourself and gather your nerves.
I don't anybody ever really adapts to NY cabbies!

Voiding the warranty due to painting is a fact that I overlooked. That's a common practice within the industry, this voiding the warranty due to painting. REI most probably will be no exception to this practice.

If that's the case, then just forget about the Buzz One altogether, because that's your sole reason for considering REI in the first place. Furthermore, one of the worse things you could ever do, would be to purchase a bike that doesn't look good to you. That's something about vehicles that are the wrong color, they just don't ever really grow on you. It's sorta like having to marry some girl that you feel deep down inside, that she's really ugly....Yuck!!! Just like the girl, you won't be riding your bike too much either!

So that narrows the choices between the Phat Cycle Fixie and the Felt Brougham.

I say, at this point, get the Brougham. It comes with a lifetime warranty. Felt is a better known company. The Brougham looks cooler! Get the Brougham, unless the price difference is too great!

- Slim

I saw a Trek Earl in orange the other day at the Bicycle Habitat in Park Slope not sure what size though.

The Felt "looks" better, but the Buzz One "feels" better?? You wanting something to ride or an art piece?

Slim made the statement that the worst thing you could do was buy a bike that was ugly to you because then you wouldn't want to ride it. Incorrect. The worst thing you could do is get something you are not comfortable riding- no matter what it is or where you are riding.

I've got one more suggestion for a bike, though: Raleigh Back Alley. Got no idea of the pricing, and this should get Slim's juices flowing (hint: frame is/has Reynolds 520 and the fork is 4130 cromoly ).

The Fixie from Phat Cycles is about $460, the shop that was selling them said they'd shave off a few dollars if I paid in cash, which is what I am planning on doing anyway.

The Felt Brougham is $598.

It's not a gigantic price difference, but it's very considerable.

It's a good point, No1Mad. One feels better and the other might take a bit of time getting used to. But I think it's also just that they might be two different kinds of bikes.

I'll look around for the Back Alley, but I have not come across it at any of the bike shops yet.

I haven't been to Bicycle Habitat in Park Slope. I only went to the one in Manhattan. I live in Manhattan and figured it would make sense to buy from a bike shop that is relatively close to where I live, to take advantage from whatever free/discounted mechanic service they might offer.

Another thing that I guess I need to consider is the likelihood of theft among the bikes.

What would look more enticing to steal or steal the parts from between the Phat Cycles Phixie, Novara Buzz One, and the Felt Brougham.

My sister's boyfriend, who used to ride a mountain bike regularly, recommended that I look into a mountain bike as it will be more durable and able to withstand potholes, broken glass, and other lovely details of city riding.

Should I scrap the whole road bike and/or urban bike idea and look into a mountain bike instead? Would I be able to get something decent in a complete mountain bike with $600?

Oooh! Oooh! Did someone say chromoly? Oooh! Oooh! It's just so exciting!

I think it would be in Tohtruck's best interest to try the Back Alley and the Schwinn Madison. He might also swing back over to the Felt people to retry that Brougham. I've read nothing, but great to stellar reviews about it!

Also, I talked to a bicycle person here at the REI in San Francisco. He says, "As long as your bike is the same color, as it was when you initially purchased it, you're entitled to 100% satisfaction. It's not like we're going to check the paint number or anything!"

In that case, the Buzz One should still be on the table as long as Rustoleum is still sold publicly

- Slim

PS.


* BTW - You're absolutely right about the Buzz One. It should be favored over any of the others!

https://www.schwinnbikes.com/bikes/ur...-madison-14401

Looks to be a bit out of my price range. But I'll ask around if any places have it.

I think, if I decide to get the Buzz One, I'm just not gonna mess with the paint. It's not terrible, just not ideal. I'd rather not even risk messing with a possible void in the warranty. But the handlebars are kind of a doody. Also the saddle looks a bit ridiculous. But mainly it's the ridiculous handlebars that get to me.

I'm starting to think maybe I should just get the Buzz One, possibly switch out the handlebars to whatever they have in the store. They were kind of unclear about switching handlebars. One person told me that it is included with a free 30 mins of mechanic labor that I am offered when I buy the bike. But the cost of buying handlebars at the REI store would be included. Or it might be free if I give them the mustache stock handlebars. Another dude told me that it would just be free (parts and labor from REI). And I was told that if I decide to bring in handlebars from outside that it would be $15-$20 in labor.

I'm kind of thinking maybe I should just get the Buzz One. With the satisfaction guaranteed, I suppose I could just return for a refund if I decide I want to get the Felt Brougham down the road; or I'll figure out in the future that I want something else and I'll have a better idea of what I want, and then return the Buzz One. In a way the Buzz One kind of becomes a long-term rental with a hefty deposit I suppose.

But again, I dunno what handlebars to choose.

I kind of liked the narrow handlebars that are offered on the Phixie and the Brougham. I definitely see them as being very practical for getting through traffic. Something I was not comfortable accomplishing with the 'stache handlebars on the Buzz One.

The stock handlebars on the Buzz One, just look stupid to me, not practical for commuting in traffic. But I can see them being comfortable if I just wanted to cruise on a bike path by the river or a wide open street with no traffic.

Is it difficult to change them out myself?

Another thing I realize, is that with the road frames on the Phixie and Brougham, if I ever got into an accident there's a good chance I might fall off the saddle and wreck my bits and pieces on the top tube. Is that a common occurrence with road frames? I remember SlimRider mentioning that there should be about two fingers worth of clearance between the top tube and the jewels. Wouldn't that make it a safety consideration if for whatever reason you launched onto the top tube?

Whereas the Buzz One has a top tube that kind of declines closer to the saddle. I would be less scared of falling on that.

Am I overanalyzing everything????

Hey there TohTruck!

I've got two concerns about that Brougham. First of all, you say that it's black. Well, if it's a glossy or shiny black, it's either a 2010 or a 2011 model. The 2012 model is a stealth, or dull black. That's room for bargaining right there! Secondly, the MRSP is only $549.00, so why isn't this store being more consumer friendly?

Also, there's not that much to a Fixie, in the way of components. So therefore, if you need to replace anything, after a year or so, who cares, it really won't be anything expensive. The main investment is that beautiful chromoly frame!

- Slim

Yeah it's black.

I don't think it was a glossy or shiny black. The first time I went there the dude at the store actually told me that it's the more recent model and that they had an issue with last year's model. He said, they weren't happy with last year's model and I think they returned them all back to Felt and complained about some part of the bike. Felt took that into consideration and made some sort of change for the next year's model which is supposedly the one that they are selling.

Yeah, it comes out to $598 with tax. I tried to see if they could cut some sort of deal (like disregarding the tax) if I paid in cash or offer me some kind of discount on other stuff. They said no. But their store policy is that if buy new from them they give discounted rates on tune-ups. So a pro tune-up would be like $65 instead of $85.

But for the most part it seemed like there was no room for bargaining at that store.

So the components aren't as big a deal on a fixie? Should I go for the Phat Cycles Phixie then? The reviews I've read have said that the actual frame is nice, but the components not so much.

Although, I guess in the long run, the likelihood to upgrade and replace would end up costing just as much as the Felt Brougham.

I'm starting to think that the Novara Buzz One might be the safer bet. Literally I would feel safer falling with the Buzz One under me than the Brougham or Phixie. And I could just return the Buzz One when i get bored of it.

Obviously there isn't much room for bargaining at REI. But it seems like there might be some room for bargaining with the mechanics at REI.

Tohtruck says:

Hey, I hear Schwinn dearlerships, sometimes offer crazy in-house discounts. It might be worth your while to check it out. They may even have some 2010 and 2011 models laying about.

Hey, I'll just bet cha, that color will eventually grow on you. Even if you should decide to change the color, Rustoleum still remains your warranty's best friend.

Hey! Just get the Buzz One from REI. Look through their catalogue after checking a bunch of flat handlebars out, everywhere. Select the flat handlebar that most closely resembles your favorite one. Let REI install it, in order to skirt any other warranty issues (no matter what the cost). However, you should insist that both handlebar and labor should be free, since you ARE afterall, a member!

Actually Tohtruck, you should only return the Buzz One if something truly goes whack with it and you really need to use the warranty. Otherwise, if you're anything like the rest of us, the Buzz One just becomes your first bike, or bike number one in the (n+1) scheme. Let REI keep their 100% satisfaction guarantee in place for many years to come!

It ain't that complicated, you'll figure it out!

Just call up Phat Cycles and ask them about the specifications on that particular flat handlebar. Find the closest thing to it at REI and go with it!

I think those handlebars are called, moustache handlebars. They are considered to be commuter-friendly, because you're still in an upright position, quite capable of viewing both pedestrians and traffic.

I personally think that the flat handlbars, while kepping your upright position, also places you more in a position of focus, with a slight lean forward. So, I'm totally with you there!

However, if I were cruising in the Park, I just might prefer the North Road handlebar to the Flat one

You know TohTruck, I think that this brings us to a most intriguing question:

Just why in the world are bikes designed in this manner for guys, but not for the gals? Looks like to me, the designing should be reversed!
Seems to me that step-thrus for men would be more rider-friendly.

However, since our bikes have been made with the horizontal top tube for so long, that would be like a major revolution, or something. It would fly too hard into the face of tradition!

Yep! I hear ya!

However, I do feel that you're stretching this matter out a little too thin. I mean, when you use a word like scared, that seems to be a little too much.

Yes and no!

If you ever have an accident where the jewels are injured, then NO, you're NOT overanalyzing!

Chances are you won't injure your jewels, or have any kind of mishap like that! Therefore, yes, you are overanalyzing. Now Stop It!

- Slim

Revised: The Buzz One Handlebars are Moustache Styled.

Hey there TohTruck!

Just talked to a manager from the Soho REI. He states that painting the bike whatever color does NOT void your warranty, as long as you have your receipt. Also, he states that when it comes to switching out handlebars or other components, you're given the wholesale credit towards the purchase of new handlebars and the installation labor is free.

- Slim

I've seen a few guys riding mixtes recently. Some hybrids have such sloping top tubes anyway, so it's not a radical change. But like all gender constructs anyway, it's not easy to just change your way of thinking overnight. I see a mixte or another traditional woman's frame, and I wouldn't get it for myself. I know it's kind of silly, but things like that get ingrained.

Things can change, though--in the 19th century pink was for boys (people considered it closer to red, which was thought of as a strong and masculine color), while blue was for girls (it was thought of as softer, plus in most artwork the Virgin Mary is wearing blue, so it was a feminine color).

Tohtruck- Though I was the one who initially suggested the Buzz One, I did so because it looked good on paper for the purposes that you initially stated. It might not be appealing to your eye, but you did admit that after riding it, it felt better than the Felt that did catch your eye. Enough said on that subject.

You mention that your sister's boyfriend used to be into mtbs and suggested you consider that route. You know something? If you trust him, then his advice is going to be worth a TON more than that from strangers on these boards. He'll be able to go with you to shops, help judge the fit, possibly even give you tips on basic maintenance. Keep the knobbies for snow or any trails in the area, put slicks on for the streets and sidewalks.

With your height, stick to models with 26" wheels. Hardtail with lock out on the front fork is what you should concentrate on. He'll know (or should know) what those terms are. Maybe he will help you check out the local CL offerings and look over them for you, but I'm assuming he knows a thing or two about wrenching...

No1mad says:

Checkmate!

.

I was thinking along those lines, too. However, at the current pricepoint, Craigslist will be the only viable and most likely resource, due to the fact that decent MTB suspension forks on brand new bikes are a rarity. I think it's most probably best not to even delved into MTN bikes, if you can't get a really good suspended fork with at least 80mm of travel with lockout capability.

I like the idea of switching the tires about seasonally, that sounds cool. Like you say, if his friend is really knowledgeable and trustworthy, that could be the best bet yet! That is, unless TohTruck has settled on the Buzz One concept.

Hey No1mad, I think that in general, we strangers do pretty good on these boards. I mean, even the so-called "experts" make mistakes sometimes, because we're all human. However, overall, I think we do pretty well.

I know for certain, that most of your advice is spot on. Of course, sometimes I think you'll hit a miss, but usually, I think you give great advice. Just like this MTB idea and the Buzz One idea. Both ideas rank highly in my book!

Hey! Guess what! You're just one of the strangers on these boards...


This is excellent advice, too!

No1mad, you've got major skills!

You guys are awesome! Thanks again so much for holding my hand and offering sound advice throughout this process.

I barely know my sister's boyfriend. In all honesty, I know you guys more and I trust that you guys are giving very good advice. The mountain bike is an idea. But I just wanted to know if it's possible to get a good mountain bike at the $600 price range? I would imagine that they have to be more rugged and durable which would factor into the cost.

Chances are, I'm not even going to delve into that. I suppose, as i get more into cycling. If I feel the need to go mountain biking (which looks like a lot of fun) or off-road I will just opt to get another bike (N+1) dedicated for that.

So yeah, I'll just focus on on urban bike for now.

I went back to REI today and yeah, I was a bit confused but the basic rundown is that the cost of switching things will be free given that the replacement part is the same or lesser value than the stock part. The cost of labor is free (basically it is included as 30 minutes of free labor). I will call back again this week to speak to their master tech and find out the actual prices of the stock parts I will be replacing so I know what my options are (in terms of price) for the replacement parts.

They had flat mountain bike type handlebars

One handlebar that they had was from a company called Easton. It is the EA30 Monkey low rise handlebar.

Another handlebar option they had was the Titec Mountain handlebar.

I see, it's not that complicated but, how much do these parts matter? Is it more a matter of choose what looks good (from the flat mountain type handlebar)? Or should I look into the different materials and stuff that are used for the handlebars they have at REI?

What about grips?

I think I also might replace the grips. I don't know exactly what type of material or texture the stock grips are called. They feel comfy but not that grippy. I'm thinking I should probably go with rubber grips. Is it just pick what feels and looks nice?

I was thinking about replacing the saddle. But it's very likely that I won't find a saddle that costs equal or less than the value of the stock saddle.

And yeah, they said that painting the bike does not void the satisfaction guaranteed policy. However, it does void the Novara product warranty.

Nevertheless, I think I might take it into a detailing shop and just get the frame professionally repainted black. Does that mean I have to take everything apart and just give the shop the bike frame to repaint?

So yeah, I guess I will take the Felt Brougham out (still considering it) and the Novara Buzz One becomes my top pick.

To make matters a bit more complicated,

I stopped by EMS as well. They had a Jamis Coda that I will test ride this week (it was freezing cold and started snowing today, so I couldn't really test it out).

The employee there was explaining to me, that it would be better to get a geared bike like the Jamis Coda.

They had a steel version ($550) and an aluminum version ($525). They are the 2011 models. No Coda Sports

They have the least desirable policy when it comes to tune-ups and adjustments. I get one free tune-up but brake and gear adjustments are not free. He said after the initial tune-up I shouldn't need any adjustments at least for a year. And after that, I will only need tune-ups and adjustments about once a year. Is that true for geared bikes? I thought it was important to get tune-ups and adjustments a couple times a year.

He did say that the 2012 Coda Sports should be coming in, in about 4-6 weeks. They will be priced at about $560.

With that said, the current Codas are not expect to come down in price, even when the new Jamis Coda Bikes come in.

For the most part it seems like all the stores sell their bikes at MSRP (so it's not very consumer friendly I guess).

1. You can get a decent entry level mtb in your budget, so keep that in mind for later.
2. Saddles are highly personal and generally takes a lot of trial and error- it's one of the first things most people swap out. Consider going to a Specialized shop and have your sit bones measured. Also keep in mind the width of the saddle depends on the riding posture- the more upright, the wider the saddle needs to be. Just don't get one of those big arsed, gel filled tractor seats.
3. Handlebars- stay away from carbon. Steel can rust if precautions aren't taken.
4. Grips- use the stock ones for now, but get some gloves. Gloves save your hands from road rash in case of a spill. But if you do swap out grips, make sure you get some that lock on. I personally use Ergon GP-1's. They allow me to use whatever bar ends or a mirror that I want.
5. EMS sounds like they just want to sell you what they have and not necessarily what you want; as they aren't the only shops in town, I wouldn't bother going back to them for anything if I was you.

Also note about handlebars- one is that flat ones can be cut down a bit if they are too wide. I'd say ride them for a bit, then move the grips and controls in a bit a little at a time until you find your sweet spot- then either cut 'em yourself or take it back to the LBS and pay them to do it for you. Secondly, swapping out from the moustache to a flat bar may require swapping out the stem as well. Might see if they have an adjustable stem that you could use to figure out height/reach, then swap out to a solid stem that replicates as closely as possible.