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Quitting commuting for the winter... sob...

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Quitting commuting for the winter... sob...

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Old 12-19-04, 09:08 AM
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CommuterKat
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Quitting commuting for the winter... sob...

I was planning on commuting throughout the winter, and had been doing a pretty good job of making it in despite the snow, ice, wind, sub-freezing temps, and even a pretty significant crash a couple of weeks ago, but I have now officially put the bike up until spring.

On a ride in last week, I am pretty sure I got the beginnings of frostbite, two cars swerved towards me as I precariously made my way through some nasty ice on the shoulder of a very large hill, and the whole trip took me a half hour longer than normal. (an hour and 45 min as opposed to 1.15) I so badly wanted to keep up using the bike all winter, but the toes still have not recovered, and the shoulders just are not taken care of here in Vermont.

So, I guess I will be getting a trainer to put the bike up on for the winter to get the miles in and join the ranks of the sorry cagers for now.
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Old 12-19-04, 06:50 PM
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Frostbite sucks, and one never fully recovers from it. I encourage you to be an occasional winter commuter. If it's very cold, or if the roads are snowy, use alternative modes of transportaion. You could still have many nice rides through the winter. As you get to know yourself and your equipment, you might feel comfortable riding in harsher conditions.

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Old 12-19-04, 07:40 PM
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Hey, KommuterKat, don't give up! Think that USMC TV ad of the guy successfully doing a technical cliimb without any rock gear, Alpine pitons, or even gloves and summiting to rendezvous with a marine dropped down from heaven in full dress uniform. Yeah, I know this is fantasy. But in all sports, don't give up!

A little frost bite? Frost bite is like being pregnant ;-) You can't be a little pregnant, or have a little frostbite ;-) What boots and socks were you wearing? Trust me, you will get at least 30 pieces of good advice on what you should be wearing. Or visit the Winter Biking Forum.

For starters, Burlington is ski country. I've skied there in -20F conditions with Zara, a Dobie. She had leather pads and a woman's down vest from EMS (bad anatomical fit ;-), but it worked). I had Norwegian Telemark gear. We both survived-my only gripe was there was little snow, mostly skiing over hard scrabble rock.

The next problem- control over ice and snow and a long commute. You could continue biking with Nokian Hakkapelitta TR1110. Studded Snow Tires. Check out http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/tires/622.html

Finally, UVM (like BU) has a great Physical Therapy Department and (unlike BU) is a center for Sports Medicine.


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Old 12-19-04, 08:34 PM
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That'd odd, frost bite you can overdress for and avoid.
It's the ice that I'll worry about.
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Old 12-19-04, 09:32 PM
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Originally Posted by CommuterKat
On a ride in last week, I am pretty sure I got the beginnings of frostbite, two cars swerved towards me as I precariously made my way through some nasty ice on the shoulder of a very large hill, and the whole trip took me a half hour longer than normal. (an hour and 45 min as opposed to 1.15) I so badly wanted to keep up using the bike all winter, but the toes still have not recovered, and the shoulders just are not taken care of here in Vermont.
Don't rely on the shoulder if it's not being maintained. There is a big section of my commute (the bit that actually has shoulders, but that's another rant) where the shoulders have been in the process of being dug up for the last four or five weeks straight. Probably just as well, that's one area where using the shoulder in the past has caused me more problems than it ever prevented.
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Old 12-20-04, 07:17 AM
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Sorry- posted something earlier on snow biking. Getting back on track, Utah Mountain Biking has some useful info on how bikers get frostbite. http://www.utahmountainbiking.com/fi.../frostbite.htm


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Old 12-22-04, 12:17 PM
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Wow, thanks for all the words of encouragement!

Iceratt-
I am thinking that I may use the bike when I absolutely know that the temps are going to be above freezing, and for shorter trips on the weekends, but other than that, I will take the car and put the bike up on a trainer.

Leo-
I was wearing a pair of boots made by Garmont called "Vegans" (Yes, that really is the model name) with an inner pair of wicking socks and two pairs of wool/synthetic blend socks. I stopped halfway in and took off the wool socks and put some chemical handwarmers in the toes of my boots, but they didn't really warm up until I got to work 45 minutes later. Who knew they take a half hour to warm up?? Grr...

As for UVM's physical therapy dept, I wasn't really sure about this reference. Physical therapy for my toes? Any help with improving circulation after frostbite damage would be great, would they maybe have any ideas over there?

And finally,

Chris-
I should have known you would chime in here about not using the shoulder in this circumstance. The hill I go up is a little scarey though. Ok, a LOT scarey... The speed limit is 50MPH, it is nearly a mile to the top, and it curves around a mountain in two different directions, so there is pretty much nowhere on the road where a car can see you more than a second or two before they pass you going obscenely fast. I wish there were another route that I could take, but this one is pretty much it, and when the shoulders are maintained, they are nice and wide, and I feel pretty safe.

I guess the studded tires would be an option, but I am just worried about how much they would slow me down on pavement, and I have also heard that they can slip when there is no snow.

Well, thanks again all for all of the kind words, and have a great holiday!

Kat
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Old 12-22-04, 03:15 PM
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Hi Kat,

EMS has a sale on new boots from The North Face. Appropriately they are called "Chilkats" ;-) I tried them with EMS's Marino wool socks yesterday commuting to BU (-7 F). (I should mention that I use Nasbar's "Big Mashers" (large platforms)). These high-tech boots not only kept my feet warm, they were, as they say, "toasty". This was a breakthrough for me. So I'm passing on the info to all frostbite commuters ;-)

As an alternative to Nokians, you could check out my favorite tire in snow & ice commuting, Tioga, Bloodhounds. I'll paste info from one of my earlier, effusive posts, "I think the 27 x 1-3/8 aggressive, knobby Tioga Bloodhound (75 psi) could work well for off-road biking on your Sirrus 29er. Check out Harris Cyclery. http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/tires/630.html

Harris Cyclery will also resolve your wheel/rim issues.

The Tioga Bloodhound is my favorite tire for taking my Marin Sausalito hybrid off-road and for winter commuting in Boston.

Another tire to check out is the WTB MotoRaptor 29 x 2.1. http://www.biketiresdirect.com/29_mountain_tires.htm

But "Chilkat" ;-). you need 700c wheels to enjoy the peace of mind the Bloodhounds bring. If you're commuting on a mountain bike, check out Hutchison's Octopus. http://www.mtbr.com/reviews/Tire/product_88641.shtml

Apropos PT and frostbite therapy, I did a search on Copernic, so you can check out the links.

Copernic Agent Search Results

Search: frost bite physical therapy (All the words)
Found: 32 result(s) on The Web
Date: 12/22/2004 3:56:51 PM

1. October 99 Bite
News Bites. October 1999. One Liver Saves Three Patients. .c The Associated Press. By FLORENCE SEBAOUN ... Frost & Sullivan (www.frost.com), U.S. Hepatitis Therapy Markets ... hepatitis therapy markets. Frost & Sullivan ... of therapy, including psychiatri
http://www.askemilyss.com/bites/bite1099.htm
93%

2. Summit Physical Therapy, Tri-Cities WA
... Work out wisely. Regular physical activity is essential for keeping your back strong and injury-free ... can lead to hypothermia or frost bite, especially to the feet and toes ...
http://www.televar.com/~summitpt/news.html
92%

3. FEBRUARY
February. February 5, 2005 ... Recreational Vehicle Sales and Parts Physicians/Optometrist/Physical Therapy Rentals - Snow Removal Spas/Hot Tubs - Well ... *17th annual Frost Bite Open Winter Golf Tournament ...
http://www.harrisonchamber.com/calendar/february.htm
86%

4. Low Carb Friends
I got frost bite from physical therapy about 10 years ago. It caused severe permanent nerve damage in my one leg.
http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/ar.../192885-1.html
85%

5. Neurovascular Dystrophy in Feet due to Frostbite
... vascular and nerve damage due to frostbite injury resulting ... ALTERNATE, EXPERIMENTAL TREATMENTS: Bio-feedback, Physical Therapy including: Hand therapy (massage ..
http://rpm.spinn.net/FootPain.htm
85%

6. University of New England Office of Communications - News Releases
... The animal, suffering from frost bite damage to its flukes and gastronomical problems, was completely healed by the time ...
http://www.une.edu/ur/releases/porpoise3.html
80%

7. Cold and Hot Therapy
There is no danger of frost bite or freezer burn. ... Pediatrics ] [ Personal Care ] [ Pharmacy ] [ PhotoTherapy ] [ Physical Therapy ] [ PlanetRX...
http://www.medcatalog.com/cold.htm
78%

8. Frostbite and frostnip
... days, during which hydrotherapy and physical therapy are used to ... "The Cold Facts about Frostbite." Stride (Winter ... com/db_area/archives/1997/v2n4/frost.html (6 ..
http://www.chclibrary.org/micromed/00048770.html
78%

9. Ice Therapy Info
An Introduction to Ice Massage. Ice Therapy. Understanding Its Application. By Harold Packman, RMT. Copyright 1977©. Preface. The following is written with the Massage Therapist in mind. ... in the Physical Therapy journals (if they were not careful, they
http://www.massageceus.com/ice_massage.cfm
73%

10. Frostbite and frostnip
... Because the outcome of a frostbite injury cannot be predicted at first ... a hospital stay of several days, during which hydrotherapy and physical therapy are used ..
http://www.healthatoz.com/healthatoz...d_frostnip.jsp
72%

11. http://www.aotf.org/database/ot102/ot101.idx
... 77 ADJUVANT PHYSICAL THERAPY VERSUS OCCUPATIONAL THERAPY IN PATIENTS ... APPLICATIONS OF PHYSICAL AND OCCUPATIONAL THERAPY IN CHRONIC ... 396 CAREERS SOUND BITE OT PRACTITIONERS LEARN ...
http://www.aotf.org/database/ot102/ot101.idx
72%

12. http://www.aotf.org/database/ot101/ot101.idx
... 77 ADJUVANT PHYSICAL THERAPY VERSUS OCCUPATIONAL THERAPY IN PATIENTS ... APPLICATIONS OF PHYSICAL AND OCCUPATIONAL THERAPY IN CHRONIC ... 396 CAREERS SOUND BITE OT PRACTITIONERS LEARN ...
http://www.aotf.org/database/ot101/ot101.idx
66%

13. eMedicine - Frostbite : Article by David Cheng, MD
... Consultations: Frostbite treatment is a multidisciplinary ... the surgical care. Physical therapist to provide ... Perform physical therapy to increase flexibility and ..
http://www.emedicine.com/ped/topic803.htm
65%

14. Summit Physical Therapy, Tri-Cities WA
Regular physical activity is essential for ... Underdressing can lead to hypothermia or frost bite, especially to the feet and toes, hand and...
http://web.ask.com/searchcp?q=frost+...tml&page=&ws=1
65%

15. MyAcousticNeuromaStory2
If you wish to go back to original page, click rose link below: May 6, 2000: I have had a long silence here since my last entry. Things are improving, quite slowly, but still improving. ... May 15, 2000: Physical Therapy: I wanted to write today about my P
http://members.aol.com/clfsong1/MyAc...omaStory2.html
60%

16. Free Professional Physical Therapy Advice
Featured Question. Dear Physical Therapist, ... You should not exceed 5 minutes with the ice massage as you could risk frost bite.
http://www.treadmillchallengers.com/askpt.htm
59%

17. FROSTBITE
... Activity: Physical therapy may be required after healing progresses sufficiently. Diet: ... Cardiac arrest, if frostbite is accompanied by total body hypothermia. ..
http://www.rxmed.com/b.main/b1.illne.../FROSTBITE.htm
59%

18. M
... owner/director of Body Awareness. Physical Therapy. She is an honors ... To avoid frost bite, ice. should never be put directly on the skin or left ...
http://www.bodyawarenesspt.com/newsl..._summer_v1.PDF
59%

19. Hyperbaric Foundation - The Life is in the Blood : Hyperbaric Medicine : Melbourne - Australia
... • frost bite. • chronic illness ... members hope that the use of Hyperbaric Oxygenation together with assertive physical therapy will produce better results ...
http://www.spinalrehab.com.au/hyperb...foundation.htm
55%

20. Hot & Cold Application
... Contrasting produces a physical hot-cold pumping action on ... of cold therapy in excess of 20 minutes at a time may cause additional bleeding, swelling, and possible frost bite. ...
http://www.racingsmarter.com/hot_&_cold_application.htm
54%

21. Frostbite: Prevention, Treatment and Recovery - From Couloir's ...
... Physical therapy is an important component of a rapid recovery. ... Patience plays a huge part of frostbite recovery. ... there are still weeks of therapy and then ..
http://www.couloirmag.com/articles/t.../frostbite.htm
52%

22. Frostbite -- eCureMe.com
... more about Frostbite, Frostbite occurs when freezing injures the body tissue. ... Physical therapy as needed; Surgical treatment, only if absolutely necessary. ..
http://www.ecureme.com/emyhealth/data/Frostbite.asp
46%

23. Ice Therapy Info
...in the Physical Therapy journals (if they were not careful, they might ... etc. available regarding the possibility of chills, frost-bite et al...
http://web.ask.com/searchcp?q=frost+...cfm&page=&ws=1
46%

24. Brrrr! Tips For Workers To Avoid Frostbite
... ful tips on avoiding frost- bite, one serious hazard ... serve our patients, MEDGroup is proud to announce that we are. bringing physical therapy and rehabilitation in-house ...
http://www.medgroup.org/pdfs/newsup_q12004.pdf
44%

25. Treatment by Neuropathy - Book 2 Chapter 2
MANIPULATIVE AND PHYSICAL THERAPEUTICS. Abortion and Miscarriage. DEFINITION: A concise definition of both the terms may be: Abortion is the expulsion of the fetus between the fourth and the sixth months. ... Manual Therapy. Treatment by Neuropathy and The
http://www.meridianinstitute.com/eam...e/lakech8.html
42%

26. Frostbite Detection & Treatment
... At the hospital, frostbite is usually treated comprehensively because its ... hospital treatment may include whirlpool therapy and physical therapy to promote ..
http://www.hipusa.com/eTools/webmd/A...etreatment.htm
39%

27. soft tissue injuries
Drug Therapy, Prevention & Control, Rehabilitation, Surgery, Therapy ... be made from an appropriate history, thorough physical examination, and...
http://www.ais.up.ac.za/med/sport/softtissue.htm
39%

28. Frostbite » Medical Diagnosis
... Frostbite may be managed in the outpatient setting or require hospitalization ... Physical therapy should begin once healing progresses sufficiently. DIET: ..
http://www.medfamily.org/diagnosis/F...rostbite.phtml
33%

29. soft tissue injuries
Drug Therapy, Prevention & Control, Rehabilitation, Surgery, Therapy ... be made from an appropriate history, thorough physical examination, and...
http://web.ask.com/searchcp?q=frost+...htm&page=&ws=1
33%

30. Arthritis: Heat and cold- medcohealth.com
... Physical therapists are needed to apply paraffin wax, or use ... Cold therapy can involve cold packs, ice massage ... can cause nerve damage or even frost bite, so you ..
http://www.medcohealth.com/medco/con...bute=Self_Care
26%

31. COLD THERAPY IN THE HORSE
... frost-bite in humans is reduced by applying a wrap next to the skin and by not extending the use of cold therapy ... the use of physical agents in peripheral ...
http://www.mackinnonicehorse.com/coldtherapy.htm
26%

32. Recent nursing home disciplinary actions
...to a local hospital and treated for hypothermia and frost bite to his ... to provide ongoing assessment of a resident's physical therapy needs,
http://www.idph.state.il.us/about/nu...ation_list.htm
26%

Report generated by Copernic Agent - See downloadable products at http://www.copernic.com/



Last edited by Leo C. Driscoll; 12-22-04 at 03:59 PM.
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Old 12-22-04, 07:27 PM
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That is the most stunningly long post I have ever seen! Thanks for the info though!

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Old 12-23-04, 12:26 AM
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Originally Posted by CommuterKat
I was planning on commuting throughout the winter, and had been doing a pretty good job of making it in despite the snow, ice, wind, sub-freezing temps, and even a pretty significant crash a couple of weeks ago, but I have now officially put the bike up until spring.
Small price to pay for being able to live in Burlington. I am very jealous. May I recommend some snowshoeing to pass the time?
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Old 12-23-04, 08:03 AM
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Kat,

If I remember correctly, you have a fairly long commute (around 15 miles one way or return). May I suggest that you develop you riding and dressing skills by riding in your neighbourhood and when the temperature is below freezing (i.e. you practice on ice) but not too much below freezing so you don't freeze too quickly.

Two-to-three km rides (1.5-2 mi) are ideal because you have the time to know that you are too cold or too hot, but you don't have time to freeze up your toes or fingers.

By the way, I found that clothing that works for cross-country skiing also works for bicycling.
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Old 12-23-04, 04:11 PM
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Michel,
That is a good idea. Yes, my commute is 15 miles one way and it usually takes me about an hour and fifteen minutes. My parents live only 8 miles away, and there are no hills between my house and theirs, so that would be a great shorter trip, and even shorter outings like you mentioned would be a good idea as well. Just long enough to get out there and see what it is like to ride in extreme cold, but not far away from my house to worry about frostbite, or not making it home.

Thanks for the tip.
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