Hey there Eugene,

Sounds like you're in a rural area. It might do you some good to cycle on suburban streets after you get your bike. After becoming acclimated to suburban streets, you should gradually move in closer to a more urban area and ride on more urban thoroughfares. I believe this exercise will help to ease your fears of riding on the open roads.

Upon Cyccomute's reference to the 29'er MTB option, I think it would be best, if I were to remove the regular 26'er MTN bikes from the list. However, since your mud situation doesn't appear to be too bad, but is still present, I'll keep the fender and rack mounts, active.

The S&S couplings offer a very stable ride to the cyclist. There is no flex at the coupling juncture and the couplings are completely immobile, once secured. Quite a few bicycle companies use the S&S coupling system.

Here's some additional information with respect to the S&S couplings:

www.bikyle.com/s_&_s_couplers.htm

www.sandsmachine.com/p_i_seq.htm

- Slim

PS.

Please, try those drop handlebars real soon!

The Surly Long Haul Trucker has drop handlebars:

www.thatbluebike.com/2011/01/surly-long-haul-trucker/

Eugene_B says:

Aluminum doesn't like to be straddled with extra weight. Steel doesn't care as much. If steel is burdened with excessive weight, it will tend to yield or bend, NOT break.

The S&S couplings are very snug and tight, without any flex at all. S&S couplings are for any world traveler who is also, a cyclists.

'Twas a pleasure, my friend!

Eugene, mud is a very serious issue. It's important to know what type of mud we're dealing with here and how pervasive it is within this particular area, in which you're cycling.

I mean, what's its consistency?

Will it be easily avoidable along the way?

Is the entire area riddled with mud holes or patches?

Just how extensive is the mud?

Well if you tend to shy away from drop handlebars, you'll just make it that much more difficult to travel the long distances you were referring to, because touring and riding long distances, are primarily for drop handlebar candidates. If we just stick with your comfort zone and your immediate cycling needs at hand, we might just as well, rule out drop handlebars altogether right now, and only focus upon MTN bikes and hybrids, for commuting, quick errands, and your utilitarian grocery needs.

If your budget is between $1K and $2K, you're going to have many bikes to choose from the list.

Is this still currently your budget?

If not, we need to be alerted, right away.

The greyhound idea sounds great! The sooner, the better!

- Slim

PS.

You've just got to learn how to face your fears. Get set into those drops and ride with the wind upon the open roads. Free your spirit! Discover a new Eugene through cycling! Just take it day by day and step by step....

You'd be amazed at how even a little mud will clog up a bike with fenders. There are fenders for mountain bikes which don't fit as close to the wheel as road bike fenders. Their coverage isn't as good because they are further away from the tires and knobby mountain bike tires tend to grab and fling mud with wild abandon. On the plus side most of the mountain bike fenders around clip on and off very quickly so if you don't need them, you don't have to use them or if they get clogged, they come off easily to clean.

It sounds like you could use some basic skill instruction. Find a local bike club and start riding with them. Ask questions. Riding a bike is easy but being proficient at it takes time and skill.

Haha thanks However regarding this exact road I am still not sure, I was riding a bus back from work yesterday and saw another pair of crashed cars. I am just not sure anything good will happen if those cars crash when I happen to be near them.

If I go for Trucker Deluxe and considering that I need 29", will I still be able to pack that bike? I've checked bags for such bikes and they seem to be 26"x26" so I wonder if 29" wheel can still be fitted in it (by removing tire or something like that)? Also if I assemble that bike, I'll be able to customize all the options such as flat/drop handlebars, fat tires (similar to mountain bike), etc?

And on the other hand, if I choose non-S&S bike and will have to pack it into that huge box, would it be possible to travel with it at all? I mean even if I pack it into the bus (which will still results in a $30-40 fee according to their website), what would I do with that box after arrival? Are there some smart boxes that can be nicely folded so that it is possible to travel with them after getting off the bus?


It's not that bad, I basically took photos of worst case places. Most of the time the ground is relatively hard, in some places it's really muddy but those places are short and I'll just drive around on grass. In some places it gets a little soft/swampy but nothing too extreme.

Yeah, it's still my budget. I mean I of course don't have a goal of spending all that money so if there is some good bike under 1k, I would buy it however if there is something really good and worthy in 1-2k range, I don't mind paying for that at all.

Let's not confuse the guy with useless wrong information, Slim. Aluminum isn't a delicate metal that will snap into 2 pieces from a sideways glance. 200 lb on an aluminum mountain bike or even a road bike, for that matter isn't a concern, since aluminum bikes are designed for far greater loads than 200 lb. I have both. I even have an aluminum touring bike which regularly carries loads (rider and gear) far in excess of 200 lb. I jump aluminum mountain bikes. It's not a concern. Let's not muddy the waters unnecessarily.

A bike box that is 26x26" is a very small box. Even with couplers, I doubt that any bike, except for a Dahon folder, will fit in that size box. I'm afraid that you are reading something wrong.

Traveling with a bike is difficult. You can try to arrange a box at your destination from a local bike shop or you could ask someone to store it for you. You might check at Warm Showers for people living near where you want to travel who could store your box.

You could rent a car for your trip which is what I have done in the past. A one-way car rental is very expensive, however. If you are going to travel somewhere, ride a loop and come back to the starting point, you could rent a car and park it for your trip. That could be cheaper, and is certainly easier, then the bus.

The information that I have submitted to the OP is quite pertinent. Any extra weight added to the aluminum frame, whether the cyclist tends to be overweight himself, or not, is going to add additional stress to the aluminum frame. Aluminum bicycle frames can be designed to endure many cycles of stress. Aluminum has both a smaller fatigue strength and yield capacity, than steel. The number of stress cycles for aluminum is indeed a finite number. This is NOT the case with steel.

For example:

Imagine drinking from a pristine pool of water that's pressure sensitive and in balance with the atmospheric pressure of the cold reservoir supplying it. Everytime you scoop a cup of water from the pristine pool, the reservoir replenishes the pool, restoring the pool to its original volume. That's steel.

Now imagine a pool which is only supplied with an air filter and a cooler. When you scoop up a cup of water, you've just depleted your water supply with no promise of restoring your water to its original volume. The only question here is the following:

What was my original volume of potable water?....That's aluminum!

-And that's the question with which all aluminum framed bicycle owners need to concern themselves...

The longer you use your aluminum framed bicycle and the more force(s) that you subject it to, the faster it reaches its fail date. If you cycle frequently upon an aluminum framed bicycle, then you're drinking larger volumes of water and thus, depleting your pool more rapidly. If you use your aluminum framed bicycle in DH MTB races, then you're depleting your pool much more rapidly.

So there's no wrong information here. A 200 lb. rider will indeed subject his aluminum framed bicycle to more stress cycles than a 175 lb. rider. However, the question remains, how many stress cycles will the modern-day highly technologically designed aluminum framed bicycle endure?...Will it be thousands or millions? ...Just how deep is that aluminum pool?

No matter how deep it is, the steel pool remains much deeper!

Eugene_B says:

I ride the streets of Oakland, San Francisco, and Berkeley. I have ridden my Nishiki in Cleveland, New York, Detroit, Charlotte, New Orleans, Phoenix, and many other cities. I've been on thoroughfares where drivers observed no speed limit whatsoever and the police didn't even seem to care. Most commuters endure the same experiences. Therefore, we make an effort to avoid dangerous roads and take safer and wiser routes. This would appear to be exactly what you're doing, except for the fact that you seem to be going out of your way to avoid routine traffic that cyclists experience daily. I dunno, I could be wrong, but I don't think so.

Most commuters who have been commuting for decades have never been hit by any vehicle. In fact, according to bicycle gossip, more bicycles have hit cars than the reverse.


Alright, we've come to an impasse here. We've just got to get this settled once and for all, right now, because the LHT Deluxe doesn't come in the LHT 700c option.

Go to this website and give us the result:

www.totalbike.com/service/frame_size.php

I'm just going to guess that you fit 62cm and not a 64cm LHT frame. If that's the case, then we could still go with the Surly LHT Deluxe 26". If not, then it's on to the big box standard LHT 700c we go in a 64cm frame! However, we need to know for certain.

Funny, I get the feeling that you're arriving at your decision already...

So let's just see what your results are from the website, before we proceed.

The bus station has a storage facility where luggage and such is kept. If you're only going to be a day or two. I'm certain that they will hold it for you. Besides, a card board box can be broken down and deconstructed to just a flat looking two dimensional-appearing thing. All you need are some box cutters and some good tape and you can construct and destruct, all day long. Just deconstruct the box and have greyhound push it up along side their storage room wall, until you're ready to recollect it.

That's great! In that case, fenders shouldn't really be a necessity. However, we'll place them on the back burner anyway, just in case.

Great! Then we're all set and good to go! Just get the result from the totalbike.com website and we'll proceed from there...


- Slim

FWIW - I went through a similar choosing process, and had pretty much made up my mind on a Surly Cross Check. People seem to love them. But I'd have to hop on a train and go all the way into the city, then ride halfway across the city just to find a stocking dealer.

If you need dealer support, you're basically up the creek.

It sounds like your local dealer stock Trek and Specialized. I think you should pick something from among their offerings. Go with your gut feelings and actually pull the trigger. You're driving yourself crazy trying to over analyze everything online. These little details are not going to make that big of a difference. You're trying to figure out every. single. possibility, then buy THE PERFECT bike. There's no such thing, so you'll never get there.

Just pick one, already. Use information relating to what you WILL do, not what you MAY want to do one day.

Also, you have to either get over your fear of riding among cars or just accept that you'll never be a commuter. This thing with letting every car accident scare you a bit from cycling.... maybe you just don't have the guts for cycle commuting and you should stay on the bus and feel safe. Make sure you use the seat belts though.

Don't worry, Eugene. We're almost there!

- Slim

PS.

Just do the totalbike.com thing, test ride some bikes with drop handlebars, and we'll be there before you know it!

Also always remember this:

Sometimes we all get the jitters when riding in traffic. Things happen. Cars cut you off. They get too close. They slam on their brakes for some unexplained reason, just in front of you. They even unsuspectingly open their car doors in your pathway, just when you happen to be casually speeding along.

However, most things that happen don't translate into a casualty or fatality. There's just a bunch of close calls, rude behaviors, and ignorant actions. However, at the end of the day 99.9% of us make it back home, physically unscathed, but permanently psychologically affected, in a good way. We love it!

Most days are uneventful, but enjoyable nonetheless, because we're cycling!

If you want to use a 'pool' analogy, the pool of steel framed mountain bikes is next to nonexistant for steel framed bikes from major manufacturers. Your (unfounded) concerns for aluminum frames will only serve to send Eugene_B on a quest for something that simply doesn't exist at his price point. Sure he could buy the Trek 820 with a very low component mix and a pogo stick for a shock or he could spring for a higher quality bike in his price range with a better component mix and a shock that could be locked out for road use. The 820 could be remade with better components but the cost would be about double of the Trek 6000, for example. And you'd still have a boat anchor of a frame.

I'll ask the same question I ask everytime this silliness comes up: If you are so concerned about the fragility of aluminum, do you ride with only steel parts? Aluminum handlebars should be a particular concern if you are worried about fatique cycles.

Eugene_B, I actually weigh more then you do. I do throw my bikes down mountains on a regular basis and I ride aluminum bikes almost exclusively (my non aluminum bikes are titanium). I give not a second thought to how tough the frames of my aluminum bikes are. I have broken 2 aluminum frames but I've also broken two steel frames. Both steel frames were broken through use...and a little abuse...while only one of the aluminum frames was broken in the same manner. The other aluminum frame was broken because of stupidity on my part.

Well at least, if your steel frames were broken, we can rest assured that they broke at the weld joints and can be readily repaired by a skilled welder. Aluminum can snap anywhere and are more difficult to repair via welding.

In my mind, there is no need for concern over the stress cycles of aluminum bicycle frames. Many automobile wheels have been made out of aluminum (alongside the basic steel wheels) for decades and they see stress patterns that far exceed any bike frame and do not commonly suffer from stress fatigue.

Additionally, aluminum has been used to build airplanes for over a century, and historic aluminum airplanes still see flight today. Again, these materials see stresses far greater than any bicycle frame. Boeing, the major manufacturer of passenger planes that see thousands of flights every day, as well as all other major aircraft manufacturers, think enough of the material that anywhere between two thirds and three fourths of any airplane's weight can be attributed to aluminum, including the frame of the plane itself. Frames over 200 feet long. Still worried about it's durability in a bicycle?

Yes, it's true that aluminum does not respond to bending as well as steel. Thus, the response from the manufacturer is to make the frame thicker so that it is more rigid. The same is true for automobile wheels. Steel wheels are much heavier even though they are thinner in design. The aluminum wheels are much thicker, but lighter, and again do not suffer stress related failures very often. Even when the wheels get very old.

Will the aluminum frame or aluminum automobile wheels eventually snap due to fatigue? Possibly, but it's going to be long after any of us are capable of riding or driving. When considering purchasing a new bike, it's essentially a non-issue.

The only argument that can really be solidly applied to steel vs. aluminum is ride quality. Because steel frames can bend and flex, they can often provide a much smoother ride than a rigid aluminum frame.

Forgot to mention also, that aluminum has been used to send people and sattelites into space since the dawn of the space race...with Sputnik. Titan rockets and the current space shuttle's frame are made out of aluminum, specificially because of it's ability to withstand the stresses during launching. Let me put it this way, if NASA thinks aluminum is good enough for the frame of the space shuttle, I think it's safe to say that you don't have to worry about your bicycle frame being made of aluminum. Buy with confidence.
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+1 Indeed technology has made vast improvements with aluminum, in terms of bicycle frame production, and design.

No, you can't "rest assured". One of the aluminum bikes both broke at welds. One of the steel bikes broke at the steer tube/fork crown junction (a weld area), at the chainstay bridge (another weld area) and, finally, in the middle of the dropout as did the other steel bike. The dropout isn't a weld area.

As for 'quality' steel frames being easily and readily repaired, this a is a total myth. I had to have one of the steel bikes repaired because the company decided that it wouldn't cover the warranty...a company no longer in business and with which I wouldn't do business afterwards. The guy who did the repair is a cyclist and a master machinist/welder. He was amazed at how thin the steel was and how hard it was to weld the metal without burning through it. You might be able to get a steel bike repaired by someone skilled in welding bicycles but it's a myth that just any old welder with moderate...or even advanced...skills can do it.

Oh, and the other aluminum bike? I broke off the seatpost mast on it. The same guy who did the welding on the steel frame welded the mast back in place without issue.


Then how about you get off the "aluminum is so horrible that if you buy a bike made of you, you are going to die" soap box. Or get rid of all the aluminum structural parts on your bikes. No aluminum rims, cranks, handlebars or hubs. You can keep the derailers and the shifters but even those are going to wear faster than a steel part.

Perhaps we'll continue this after Eugene has been properly served

You're a good sport, Slim. I agree that this topic may warrant further discussion, but perhaps this thread isn't the best place for it.

Personally, I'm of the school of thought that if an aluminum frame can get a Boeing 747 off the ground tens of thousands of times, and can launch space shuttles and satellites into orbit, it can withstand transporting a person on a bicycle just fine.
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Due to the extreme fragility of aluminum, all bats will now be made from steel.

Huh?

I've got the following results from the site:

Road
Frame Size: 58 cm. 23 in.
Crank Length: 170-172.5mm

Mountain
Frame Size: 47 cm. 18 in.
Crank Length: 175-177.5mm

Seat Height
76 cm. 30 in.

Yeah, I guess you are right on that I'll visit a couple more shops and will probably set on something. It's really hard to make the desicion though, there are so many options and parameters!

Well, I am ok about staying on some roads but I have a bad feeling about this one still. I am still thinking about avoiding it using that ground road however we will see how it goes when I get my bike and start riding it

Again, thanks everyone for all the input, inlcuding the small steel vs aluminium flame war Basically aluminium is not a huge concern to me, I just wanted to confirm that it is good. I used to have a cheap aluminium mountain bike before (I believe here it would be called a "wallmart bike") and after a couple of years I could easily see how it bends and wears off so that eventually I was too scared to use that bike. But I guess they used some special chinese aluminium there


Today I visited one of the local shops which according to the website looked like a bigger one. They did have a lot of stuff but not so much for my height. The handlebar question still remains unresolved: all non-road bikes they carry have flat one. First they gave me to try Specialized Crosstrail L-20". It feels really light and fast and it still performed great in grass and some of the mud. However, may be that's a phobia or something like that, but the thinner wheels kept me nervous when I had to do turns and maneuver: it feels as if I enter the turn at even slightly sharper angle, the bike will fall.

Another bike I tried was Hardock mountain bike which didn't come in my size so the test wasn't too clean. The thicker tires felt much better, I could do turns without fearing anything and the muddy ride was somehwat less bumpy. It did require more effort though. However when I locked the front suspension, It became almost as fast and easy to ride as the Crosstrail one. The smaller size of the bicycle did make the ride slightly uncomfortable though so I can't tell for sure.

So now I have even more stuff to think about The hybrids do seem to be able to handle the roads I'll be riding on and they will probably be better for the longer jorneys I want to do...with the only question being whether the difference is going to be dramatic. Those several hundred meters that I rode when testing bikes, didn't allow me to feel that much of a difference between hybrid and a moutain bike with locked suspension however I wonder whether the difference will be much more noticeable when I'll be riding many miles.

Next saturday I'll visit several other shops and will then either make my desicion on something or will have to look up some huge bike shop in the local state(s) and travel there on amtrak/greyhound.

Oh, also one more thing. When talking to the sales person, I asked about riding in winter and he showed me some super-thick tires that can be used for that. However I forgot to ask whether you can do that with both a hybrid and mountain bike. Will a hybrid bike handle winter ride?

That's great, Eugene!

You see! We're making progress! All you have to do now, is to try some more hybrids in your size and try some road bikes with drop handlebars.

Then we'll be set. Looks like we're back onto the 26 inchers too, if you like. There's still hope for the Surly LHT deluxe, yet!

- Slim

It depends on the frame clearance. Hybrids that slant more towards off road use come with wider tires already. Those that slant towards being performance orientatated like a flat bar roadie comes with narrow tires.

You do need to figure out if you could handle drop bars or not. Finding a mtb that comes stock with them will be very difficult- so maybe look at cyclocross and touring bikes to experiment with the drop bars. Reason being is that they take wider tires than a road bike will.

Another option to maybe explore are the so called "Dual Sports" class of bikes. Every brand has them, so pick what's available local to you.

Hey there Eugene,

Somehow I missed this post. However, in general most hybrids come stock with at least 32mm wide tires. There are a few exceptions like the Trek 7.7FX and the Giant Rapid 1, but most come with the standard 32mm or slightly wider. No1mad pretty much hit it on the head with his description of hybrids. MNT bikes automatically come with much wider tires and can handle any type of terrain more handily. However, the price paid for wider tires is always going to be speed with the MTN bikes. It's because of the MTN bike's wider tires that it can venture to go places that neither the road bike or hybrid would dare challenge. The MTN bike's efficiency as a bicycle actually increases, as the terrain becomes more challenging. Therefore, you don't want to go racing a mountain bike on a rock embedded mountain with thick roots sprouting up everywhere, that has more holes and crevices, than can be imagined.

OTOH, once you've exited mountain country, the MTB becomes the sloth of the bicycle world when on smooth pavement. The nonsuspension rigid forked hardtail MTN bikes are faster than the suspended fork hardtails, and the suspended fork hardtails are faster than the dual suspension MTN bikes. Apparently, some of the cyclist's forward energy is lost due to countering the opposing forces related to the MTN bike's suspension system. That's why the rigid MTN bikes do so much better!

Finally, both hybrids and MTN bikes fair well in the winter. However, the worse winter weather gets and the more challenging road conditions become with heavy snow accumulation, guess what kinda bike does better?

That's right!...The mountain bike!

- Slim

mountain bike = MTB