Hi everyone!

I am thinking about buying a bicycle and after researching the topic for a while I am still not sure which bike to choose. I'd be really greatful if you could help me with this. Here are the things I am planning to use it for, arranged by priority (from more important to less important)

1). Work commute. I am rather scared of big roads so I've planned my commute avoiding major ones. My path goes through roads like this:
https://img442.imageshack.us/img442/8038/photoss.jpg
but eventually goes like this
https://img339.imageshack.us/img339/8863/photo2epl.jpg
https://img842.imageshack.us/img842/780/photo3nk.jpg
and then like this
https://img839.imageshack.us/img839/5564/photo4vi.jpg
https://img571.imageshack.us/img571/6605/photo5fp.jpg
because this allows me to avoid relatively busy routes.
I know that road bikes are not designed for such conditions, hybrids are supposed to perform ok and mountain bikes are supposed to be good for that but I am not sure how far on this scale my case is. I.e. do such roads leave me any choice at all or should I consider mountain bikes only?

2). Grocery shopping. This is not a concern because roads to shops don't get any worse than what I'll have to deal with on the way to work. It would be nice to have ability to attach a grocery basket to the bike when needed but in reality I can live without that and use backpack instead.

3). Travelling around area. I like seeing places and often I prefer remote, less crowded places meaning that I'll likely be eventually ending up on roads such as on the later photos rather than on the first one. However I won't be doing anything crazy either, i.e. I won't be riding/falling down some random mountain so I don't need one of those completely indestructible bikes.

4). Long and remote jorneys. It would be awesome to have long jorneys using a combo of public transportation and bike. For example pack up the bike to fit it into something like greyhound bus or amtrak train, go to some big park for weekend, cover big ditances there (I am thinking of something like 100 miles per 2 days) and then get back using same bus/train again.

I don't have a set budget yet but was thinking about something like $1k, may be up to $2k if it's something really good and worth it in my case.

I do know differences between bikes but that it is theoretical knowledge only. I know that I probably need a mountain bike for those ground roads but I am not really sure if road or hybrid is completely not for my case or would it just make things slightly uncomfortable. Then again, I know about folding bikes but I don't know how well they perform on such roads and also on long rides (as well as I am not sure whether it is too hard to disasmble/assemble mountain bike for travel on bus or train). And finally I don't know if covering big distances is possible on a mountain bike at all. Theoretically, even if it goes really slow, I'd be able to cover those long distances because the day is long. However may be it takes too much effort and that goal is unrealistic, I don't know.

Please let me know what you think, and thanks for reading all this!

To Bike Forums, Eugene_B!

We will try to answer all of your questions to the best of our abilities!

You've given us excellent information from which I'm most certain we can recommend several bicycle types that can best suit your needs.

From the excellent photos that you've provided, I would suggest that you select from one of three categories. Those of which will be cyclocross road bikes, hardtail mountain bikes, or special touring bicycles. Actually, most any type of bicycle that can be equipped with wide tires, has eyelets for a rack, and quite possibly fenders.

Would you prefer fenders to protect your clothing from splashed puddles, or not?

Would you prefer drop handlebars or flat handlebars?

Drop handlebars are curved and when riding "in-the-drops", you assume a more aggressive and greater aerodynamic riding position.

With flatbars, you sit more upright, and while riding "on-the-hoods", you're better able to see traffic.


If you are in anyway mechanically inclined or live near a bicycle co-op, my first recommendation would be the Surly Truker Deluxe frame. You can build the bicycle up with your very own components independently, if you're mechanically inclined, or with the assistance of your local bicycle co-op, if you're not so inclined.

https://surlybikes.com/bikes/trucker_deluxe

Of course, you could always just have your favorite LBS build it for you at the going local rate.

At any rate, when complete, the bicycle will have wide treaded tires, a rack, and possibly even fenders, if you so desire. If you like, you can pattern its build after Surly's 26" Long Haul Trucker so that it will look something like this:

https://surlybikes.com/bikes/long_haul_trucker

Or you can vary the components loosely along those lines.

The Surly Trucker Deluxe has SS couplings which can be loosened and detached. This allows you to deconstruct the bicycle so that you can disassemble it for the purposes of either easy transport, or security against theft.

IMO, a folder would be only a mediocre choice given your terrain and desire to traverse long distances.

Too bad that Surly no longer makes the Traveler's Check, as that would be the optimal solution for all of your needs.

Btw, do the farmers and ranchers know you're planning on cutting through their pastures? I can't sympathize about wanting to avoid high speed traffic, but if I had my choice between a 2 lane road or a cow trail, I'd stick to the black top and be lit up front and rear- day and night- with the brightest lights I could find.

If the Surly Trucker Deluxe doesn't suit your fancy, then I would suggest that you consider the following drop handlebar candidates:

1) The Surly Long Haul Trucker (700 c) ~ $1250
https://surlybikes.com/bikes/long_haul_trucker

2) The Trek Steel Cross Lane ~ $1200
www.trekbikes.com/us/en/bikes/road/cyclocross/steel_cross/lane/

3) The Raleigh Sojourn ~ $1200
www.raleighusa.com/bikes/steel-road/sojourn-12/

4) The Salsa Vaya ~ $1350
https://salsacycles.com/bikes/vaya_3

5) The Jamis Aurora ~ $950
www.jamisbikes.com/usa/thebikes/road/aurora/12_aurora.html

6) The Trek 520 ~ $1480
www.trekbikes.com/us/en/bikes/road/touring/520/520/

7) The Raleigh Roper ~ $1500
www.raleighusa.com/bikes/steel-road/roper12/

8) The Nashbar Steel Cyclocross ~ $750
www.nashbar.com/bikes/Product_10053_10052_526536_-1_202339

9) The Gran Turismo ~ $800
www.bikesdirect.com/products/motobecane/gran_turismo.htm

10) The Salsa Fargo ~ $1750 rf
https://salsacycles.com/bikes/fargo

black = ht mtb

rf =rigid fork mtb

blue = touring

brown = hybrid

green = cx

Good Luck!

- Slim

* The recommended Jamis Coda Elite can have its stock 32mm tires changed to 38mm wide tires.

I don't know where you work, but if it is not acceptable to arrive covered in mud splatter, I think you should just get over your fear of roads. That terrain will likely limit you to 5-10 mph, whereas on a road, you could be going 13-20 mph.

If you really do want to do it all, the way I see it, you have three choices:

a) Get a cyclocross bike and accept that if the ground is muddy, you might either sink in or just lose traction. But then you'll have a GREAT bike for the road or harder trails. Here's my cyclocross bike, a Specialized TriCross Sport, which was around $1200 I think:







I've since ditched the fat, floppy fenders and put on properly snug-fitting road fenders. You can see that the tires are fat for road tires, and have a bit of lugging to them, so they're OK on hard packed offroad surfaces. But in loose stuff, they sink right in.


b) Get a mountain bike, (MTB) and you will be king of those offroad surfaces, but your road speed will be limited by the wind drag on the knobby tires and low inflation pressure and high rolling resistance. Don't plan on cracking 15 mph too often, if you go this route. If you go the MTB route, even if you fit fenders, you'll likely get your pants muddy from splashing around.

c) Get a hybrid with fatter tires than the cyclocross bike, but less lugs than the MTB. It is a compromise bike all around. The lugging on the tires tends to be more toward slick than knobby, so it is possible you'll wipe out in the mud.

I think you should get over your road fear and get a cyclocross bike. Then, you'll be ABLE to go off-road, if it isn't super muddy, but will still have a great tool for the road.

I went with the Specialized over a Surly because of the lighter aluminum frame and better local availability. Oh, and better paint too. I consider it a road bike that won't freak out with the occasional offroad stint, but not too hardcore.

How often are you going to be doing this commute where you will be riding through muddy fields? How long are the stretches with that type of surface. It might be fun the first few times, but man would it get old fast.

If I had to do that all the time, I might get something like a Salsa Fargo, maybe a Karate Monkey with drops.

Look at your pictures again. The tracks that you are seeing should give you a clue about what kind of bike to use. While you could do the ride on a road bike or a hybrid or even a cyclocross, I don't think you'd be satisfied with the results. Narrow tires in muddy situations like those make riding far more difficult. Adding a drop bars and a rather front forward rider position make the riding even more difficult. Mountain bikes have had most of the kinks worked out for riding in those kinds of conditions and control is much easier.

There are mountain bikes with rack mounts like the Jamis Durango Race or Trek 6000. They fit within your budget, can handle those kinds of trails with aplomb and have lockable forks so that riding on the road is easier. I would suggest against a grocery 'basket' for several reasons. First, they aren't covered so if you are bouncing down a trail, your groceries can fly out. Second, a 'basket' mounts the weight high and can really have an effect on the handling of the bike. And, finally, they just look dorky as hell. Panniers would solve 2 of the 3 problems...they still look dorky.

A mountain bike, even with knobby tires, can be ridden on the road without problems. Road tires are a little faster (maybe a couple of miles per hour) but road bike tires (and even slick mountain bike tires) are much, much, much slower on trails, mostly because you are going to spend a lot of time picking yourself up off the ground when you hit the muddy trails.

Mountain bikes aren't necessarily about indestructibility but about ability to handle the terrain.

A mountain bike will still do all that, it just may take a little more time. In reality, you can cover much longer distances than what most people think on a mountain bike off-road. I'm entered in a 125 km single day mountain bike ride in August and we have the Leadville 100 here in Colorado. I've also toured on a mountain bike as well as done 25, 50, 60 and even 100 mile rides on them. That's on all kinds of surfaces with knobby tires. I don't put slicks on my mountain bikes.

The other advantage of mountain bikes for the kind of thing you want to do is that it opens up more possibilities for adventure. You can easily ride a off-road ready mountain bike on roads but it's much more difficult to ride a road ready road bike on trails.

A mountain bike is only a little slower than a road bike in my experience. If you are judicious in choosing your routes, you can take advantage of the mountain bike's abilities and have a lot of fun doing it.

Go with the mountain bike if you are going to ride the trails you have shown in your pictures. Your life will be a lot easier.

You made a lot of good points about the versatility of a mountain bike, but this bit is totally false. There is a HUGE speed difference between a fat knobby MTB tire at 35 psi and a skinny, slick road bike tire at 120 psi.

For me, that difference is 20 mph on the mountain bike, and 30 mph on the road bike. Those knobbies are like fan blades at higher speeds. I could actually hear the wind they were moving when going down a hill at probably 17 mph. On the road bike, cruising at 17 mph is normal for me, and on the MTB with the same effort, probably 14 mph. That's only 3 mph, but if you're going to ride more than a couple miles at a time, it really adds up quickly.


Agreed, especially if the offroad portion is in the same proportion as shown in the pix.

You can put slicks on a mountain bike and pick up a couple mph without too much trouble, if you change your mind. But it will still not be like a road bike, or even a skinny-tired hybrid on the road.

Another thing is that mountain bikes don't have a teeth-jarring ride over rough pavement. They're just smooth. The big, fat tires absorb just about any road imperfections with ease. At the cost of speed.

Pugsley

I've been riding mountain bikes for 30+ years and haven't found the speed differential to be that high. I commute on a mountain bike often and even with riding off-road, it only takes me 10 minutes longer to cover the same distance.

The Surly Troll makes for a great commuter and offroad touring bike. Still making final adjustments so the front fender will fit.

A gravel grinder like the Salsa Vaya could handle that terrain. A do-it-all type of bike, with a slant toward onroad and carriage trails.



A even better choice would probably be the Salsa Fargo. Another do-it-all type of bike, with a slant toward offroad singletrack.

I'd say give those roads a try. They might not be as scary as they seem. It also might save you a fair bit of time. If that works, a nice touring road bike might work well for you. Or an older rigid mtb with slicks and drop bars (that's what I use and really like, but it's heavy as sin).

SlimRider, I really appreciate the list you put up. I'm looking hard at the Sojourn and the LHT. The weight of the Sojourn puts me off a little, but I wonder if adding fenders and rack to the LHT would put me in the same ballpark.

Yes. Basically Globie, you'd be in the same ballpark saving only 1Kg buying the LHT, as opposed to the Sojourn. Of course, when considering weight and touring bicycles, one has to bear in mind that the cyclist has his own weight that's added to the weight of the bicycle, plus any carried gear.

Thanks everyone for all the information, it's extremely helpful! Sorry for not responding sooner, I managed to get to my computer only now.

Yeah, I'd love to have fenders. I did ride a bike without fenders at some point in the past and I was all covered in mud as a result so I'd like to avoid that I mean even when riding on a normal but wet road, the back wheel was taking some water up and my back was all dirty as a result.

That I am not fully sure of. The dropped ones don't look to comfortable, I am not sure I'll be able to ride in a bent position like that but in reality I've never tried that kind of bike so I guess I'll just stop at some shop and will test drive one of such bikes.

I can't say that I am too good with mechanics. I of course can watch youtube videos and generally look at stuff and guess what it is for however I am not sure I'd risk fully assembling a bike from scratch.

At this point I think I am more inclined towards a mountain bike however I am still not fully sure. The information everyone posted here has provided a lot of food for thought and also introduced me to bikes I was not aware of (cyclocross). I guess I'll need to test-drive one of those bikes too.

Basically what kind of features I should be looking for? As far as I understand I'll need ability to attach fenders and panniers. Have the ability to switch fat/road tires. If it has suspension systems, I should look for ability to adjust it so that it performs better on the road. Is that all?

Also I forgot to mention that I am relatively tall (6'3"), which bike parameter is responsible for that and which value would fit me? Also does wheel size generally matter?

Basically I am thinking of taking the list of parameters and features I need, as well as the suggested bike models to the local shops and test driving what they have. After I get an idea of how things perform, I'll probably rethink everything again and will either buy from that shop or order a bike online. I really appreciate everyone's help and all the suggested models and I am still going through that list and analyzing the options

Well, those pastures do have a very worn off sign saying that it is private property however no one from the area knows what that land is and I've never really seen anyone there. I have several guesses about what that land might be but in any case I don't think that I'll inconvinience anyone by riding a bike there. If I ever meet a farmer there, I guess I'll just say sorry and will explain the situation to him. However I think that the land is either part of the tech park territory where I work or part of the half-finished (and currently abandoned) apartment complex.

My total commute to work would be approximately 4.2 miles and the muddy part is approximately 0.9 miles. However that muddy part also includes high-voltage power lines which don't look too good so I'll probably go for an alternative 1.2 mile muddy part.

Basically mud doesn't concern me that much - it's not pure dirt and most of the place is grassy so I think I should handle it without being completely covered in mud. Plus the climate here is not that rainy I hope (central NY) so I am counting on that road for at least the major part of the year. In case some big rains take place and the road gets washed out, I'll either consider using normal road or bus.

The normal road is not completely bad. I'll need to cover only 0.8 miles on it, it has plenty of space and in mornings and evenings traffic is generally slower. I do see people cycling and even jogging along that road. However I also did see accidents on that road and also there is a major university in the area so I assume many students use it. So all in all I'd rather avoid it. I know that it would be dramatically faster but it's not all about speed. The ride on the normal road will be fast and stressful while on the muddy road I'll be enjoying the ride - sun, trees, fields, birds, etc without having to think all the time whether that SUV does see me or how to avoid that car that is rushing on a huge speed, etc..

Also is it generally easy to disassemble a mountain bike to the point where greyhound/amtrak would accept it. E.g. is it enough to just put off wheels, lower down seat and put all of that in some bag?

Again, thanks everyone for all the help. I'll keep studying the links and hopefully will soon have a much more fun way to get to work

Quick question- how heavy are you?

Uh, nevermind. I thought I may have found an ideal candidate, but the only price I could find online was out of your budget
However, maybe one of the Montague folders could be of use as well...

Hey there Eugene!

Well if you'd prefer fenders and perhaps a rack, most of the HT MTN bikes are removed from the list. Thank God, 'cause that's a long list!

Therefore, you just might be in the market for something like the Trek 6000 or the Jamis Durango Race.

We'll see how it goes, but first, you're gonna have to see if you like drop handlebars or not. That decision will also quite drastically shorten the list, to give you an even better idea about what you might want.

I know, most of my candidates are dressed in chromoly steel, but there are great aluminum candidates out there, as well. So, I don't intend to limit your scope. I'm just giving you ideas to ponder, before making your final decision.

Glad you've got your computer running....

- Slim

PS.

Just a note concerning the LHT deluxe. This is really the only way to go if you're flying or taking trips with a bicycle on other modes of travel.

I offer these videos in order to disspell any fears that may give you pause, concerning the LHT deluxe option.

1) Deconstruction of the basic diamond frame of the LHT (travelers's Check) Deluxe
www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BiKbzaLuCk&feature=related

2) Packing your LHT (traveler's Check) Deluxe
www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UHnL5do8D0

Should you elect not to go the LHT Deluxe route and purchase a standard bicycle, then here are some basic disassembling instructions for travel:

1) Disassembling A Bike:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzhKIgM4DKk

Also Eugene,

Flat handlebars are great for short jaunts like yours. They're quite typical for the average city commuter cyclist where maintaining almost constant focus upon city traffic is compulsory. Being in an upright sitting position facilitates greater field of vision when commuting with flat handlebars. The typical hybrid was made to include this type of cycling and traditionally comes with flat handlebars. You will also find that most MTN bikes, also have flat handlebars. Flat handlebars offer you fewer hand positions when cycling. If you're cycling for much more than an hour, other handlebar choices become more desirable, given their multiple hand position choices. Touring bicycles almost never have flat handlebars, for this very reason. Touring cyclists, quite frequently cycle for more than five hours per day. They need to keep their blood circulating freely. They therefore, need to vary their hand positions more frequently.

Below are your Flat Styled Handlebar candidates from the original list that can be equipped with fenders:

1) Surly Ogre ~ $1450 rf
https://surlybikes.com/bikes/ogre

2) Marin Muirwoods 29'er ~ $750
www.marinbikes.com/2012/bike_specs.php?serialnum=2262&muirwoods_29er

3) Jamis Coda Elite ~ $1050
www.jamisbikes.com/usa/thebikes/street/coda/12_codaelite.html

4) Trek Sawyer (29)~ $1540 rf (Has Fender Eyelets, No Rack Mount )
www.trekbikes.com/us/en/bikes/mountain/cross_country/sawyer/sawyer

5) Raleigh Talus 29 Comp ~ $1050
www.raleighusa.com/bikes/mountain/talus-29-comp-12/

6) Raleigh Talus 29 Elite ~ $1750
www.raleighusa.com/bikes/mountain/talus-29-elite-12/


- Slim

PS.

Eugene just remember:

Mountain bike tires are generally wider than hybrid tires and their widths are usually measured in inches. Hybrid tire widths are routinely measured in millimeters (mm). Therefore, 38mm = 1.5 in.

38mm X 1cm/10mm X 1in/2.5cm = 1.5 in

50mm X 1cm/10mm X 1in/2.5cm = 2.0 in

^^ "mm = cc"?? Don't think so...

Fenders and mud don't play well together. Fenders are good if you are dealing with water but when you ride in mud, the mud just ends up clogging the space between the wheels and the fenders. Then you end up with the mud rubbing on the fenders...slowing you down...or clogging up the works entirely and you end up carrying the bike. A rack on the bike will act like a fender but it's not terribly effective. It doesn't clog because there's more distance between the wheels and the rack, however.

You can avoid the issue of muddy clothes by carrying a dry set of clothes. I don't ride to work in work clothes because bicycle clothes are cooler in summer and warmer in winter.

Drop bars are fine for road riding. So are flat bars. However if you going to ride off-road, drop bars require far more skill. Drop bars put you further forward over the front wheel. That makes getting your body over the rear wheel to keep it from lifting and throwing you over the bars harder. Braking with drop bars on an off-road bike can be terrifying...especially if you don't have good braking skills to begin with.

Along with the drop bar/braking issue, cyclocross bikes tend to have skinnier tires than mountain bikes. In slick conditions like wet muddy trails, the skinny tires don't leave much room for error. Even with knobs on the tire, they are harder to control and handle. A wider mountain bike tire has more contact with the ground (which is what makes them more difficult to ride on pavement and hard surfaces) so the control is better.

Yes, you'll need something to attach racks to. See the fender comment above. Knobbie tires that are always off-road ready can be made more 'road' worthy by pumping them up to higher pressure. Don't ride a mountain bike tire that is pumped up to 60 or 70 psi off-road however. It like trying to ride on a basketball. Lower the pressure for off-road to around 40 to 45 psi.

Or you could just leave them at 40 to 45 psi all the time. It makes them harder to pedal but you get a more intense workout that way.

As tall as you are, you should consider a 29er which is just a mountain bike with a taller wheel. Same tire width, just a taller wheel...perfect for a tall rider like you.

If you test ride bikes at a local bike shop (LBS), buy from them. On-line is cheaper but the LBS answered your questions, let you test ride their bikes, helped you with the selection, put the bike together and made sure it was road ready, etc. To then turn around and buy on-line would be rude at best.

That said, there are good LBS and bad LBS. If the shop answers your questions, is helpful in guiding you through the selection process, and seems like a place you'd like to do business with, buy from them. If they just shove a bike at you or roll their eyes at your questions, go elsewhere.


It's just like any other bike.

Back to the Basics , What brands are sold in the local bike shop?

dropping brand names that you have nobody around to buy that brand,
help fix, warrantee issues, and so forth..
if you are not savvy enough to DIY, is not helpful..

QBP (Surly,Salsa etc,)does supply many US bike shops,
out here the LBS can get them , but since QBP charges on delivery,

where Trek gives dealers a line of credit, they don't sit, on spec, on the floor.

they don't carry many touring bikes, here,
though a place on a Major touring route or 2, Coast and Trans Am.
Because people seem to already have Theirs by the time they get here.

My weight usually goes somewhere around 200lb, most of the time less than that.

Wow, that looks impressive, the packed Surly bike looks much more compact than the other one which required a huge box. Is this S&S thing a special feature of Surly bikes only? Also how does it perform? I mean if I go offroad and start having a bumpy ride, I won't need to worry that the thing will break under me? I mean it's still not solid and will probably have the risk of wearing off and falling apart eventually?

Also, thanks again for the list, I keep studying it!

Yeah, I'll be able to figure it out. When I say mud, I usually don't imagine that much of it so that it starts clogging the bicycle If that will be the case, I'll try to avoid that region of road or something like that. And yeah, I can always take separate work clothes with me. I am still not sure what the climate is like in NY but it doesn't apper to be raining constantly so those paths should be quite usable (I hope)

Yeah, that is one of my concerns. I was once riding a cheap mountain bike (which had flat bars though) down the hill, then bumped something and completely flew off the seat, rolling the remaining part of the road on the ground. It was magic that I didn't break anything then. Even though I definitely learnt things after that, I am still kind of scared of assuming aerodynamic positions and prefer more upright ones which also feel slightly more comfortable for my back. However I've never rode a normal bike so may be things are not that bad, I'll need to test how that thing feels.

Well, it's not price only but also availability of bikes. I am not sure there are huge bike shops here so I might just end up test driving individual features of bicycles (e.g. flat vs non-flat handlebars) and then ordering the actual bike model online because the shop won't simply have that bike. However the price is unfortunately a parameter for me too. If the difference is not huge, I of course would be more than happy to order locally and get my bike right away. However if it is hundreds of dollars, I'll probably have to go online.

That is a very good question! Even though there appear to be some sizable bike shops here, I can't easily answer that question because they have very poor websites (or don't have them at all). There is a guy who seems to carry lots of Jamis bikes, and another shop with lots of Trek-s and "Specialized" (I am not fully sure if that's a brand name). I am planning of analyzing everything I've learn and still keep learning from this thread, than paying a visit to the shops, test driving something and then I'll see how it goes. If the local shops are just too small, I might select some weekend day, get on greyhound or amtrak and go to some city with a huge bike shop and then test drive everything there

Yes, Specialized is a brand. Matter of fact, Specialized, Trek, and Giant are considered the "Big 3" in the cycling world.