Under your thoughts it would be ok to kill someone if no one was watching.

There are 5 stop lights on my commute and I stop for them. They are all on busy roads so I'd be a fool not to stop. There are also stop signs, mainly on quiet side streets. At a couple I come to a complete stop - too risky not to, a couple I track stand, and one that I track stand at only if there is someone near by. That last stop sign - my sister did the same thing in her car last week and got pulled over by a cop that was hiding around the corner, so maybe I should be more vigilant.

Funny how cyclists demand to have all the same rights as cars, but not all the same responsibilities :rolleyes: [it's not a direct response to the previous post, just a comment]

[QUOTE=AdamDZ;14006591] but not all the same responsibilities :rolleyes: [QUOTE]

I get your point. But a bike does not carry the same responsibility as a car. The damage you do on a bike has significantly less consequences then a htat of motor vehicle in the same manuever. Hence a cyclist is not required to carry liability insurance.

Not arguing that anybody needs to run stop signs or redlights. These should only be argued on a case-by-case basis, as I also have many lights that I stop at, and many stop signs that I treat as yield signs on my regular routes.

+1 Same here.

If he really wanted you there would have been a cruiser waiting for you at the top of the hill. Can't outrun a radio.

Yrs ago on a motorcycle I walked over to the walk button and pushed it. As I did a city engineer pulled up and asked me why. I told him the light wouldn't trigger for my bike. He insisted that all lights were on a timer. I just had to wait. I knew that light. He was fibbing.

Nowadays, I pull up to a light at 5ish and the don't walk sign starts blinking like it's going to change so I wait. When it's counted down and stops counting it goes back to "Walk" for the other direction and I don't get the light. I've tried to get to the button before it stops counting down but each time it ignores me and must start a timer before changing the light. If there's no traffic in any direction I go (most of the time). If there is anybody coming, going or waiting with me I walk my bike to the walk button. I'm not telling others what to do. It's what I do.

On foot and on a bicycle I totally disregard traffic rules IF I AM SURE IT IS SAFE. I know I'm only putting myself in danger when breaking the rules and It's my fault-my ass on the line.

When driving a car: I couldn't forgive myself for killing/hurting anyone. So I respect all the rules. And it is frustrating to see how badly, slowly, carelesly most people drive in my country.

On a motorcycle I respect most rules, except for filtering bans - I filter whenever I believe it is safe (cars are stopped and I see where the drivers are looking).


North of Italy was a driving paradise for me. Almost all the drivers drive fast, safe, respecting bicycles, motorcycles (allowing filtering whenever possible by making space for them). Good roads, good drivers, good speed limits, few cameras and cops. Dolce vita! :)

Personally, I applaud the efforts of these officers and their departments. ***holes on bikes are no better than **holes in cars. There are responsible ways to deal with stubbon lights, but blowing them is not one of them.

Agree. As long as they treat everyone equally and don't just pick on cyclists and let the drivers get away. During my daily commute I see more ***holes on bikes than in cars. So yeah, I'm totally for that.

I at least notice the a$$holes on bikes more (unless they're directly affecting me, then I notice the cars more). Not sure which annoyed my on the commute home last night more, the a$$holes cyclist salmoning in the bike lane who tried to force me out into traffic on a bad road or the guy in the minivan who tried to infringe on the bike lane when I was riding next to him.

Edit: I'm allowed to say ass but not a-hole? Odd.

If vehicles are around *at all*, I wait at red lights, and stop at stop signs.

However, if no vehicle is to be seen within sight, I slow down, look both ways and continue through.

In Illinois, if you are waiting at a red light, you can continue through if clear. I won't do that if a car is behind me though, or a car is waiting to come from the opposite direction, since they'll trigger the light (that is, if they move up far enough!)

Pretty simple... just use common sense.

I dont demand the same rights as cars. I dont belong on a freeway in rush hour, or on busy roads with fast moving traffic and no shoulder, etc. I want to be treated as a cyclist. Yeah, it might be illegal to stop at a red light, look both ways and proceed, but its also illegal to jaywalk, drive 2mph over the speed limit, etc. Not all illegal acts are dangerous in all situations. That's why you rarely see police enforcing jaywalking laws.

I don't think that would work with the bike cops around here. They're pretty fit.


I basically follow Idaho law around here. That, and follow the philosophy in the haiku in my sig file. Once or twice I've crossed against a red light and noted the next car down was a cop. So far, so good; no one has stopped me. We don't have that much of a problem with scofflaw cyclists violating the right of way of motor vehicles, though, so I don't think most cops even notice cyclists.

I've talked to a few people who have received warnings from police in Ft Worth for running red lights. I think most of that was right after they put in all the new bike lanes in near southside and suddenly there were cyclist out on the road.

Just to show that sometimes they go after the other guys:

http://www.streetsblog.org/wp-conten...3/IMG_4483.jpg

http://www.streetsblog.org/2012/03/0...e-of-business/

I got a ticket from a bike cop for an illegal turn in my car.

Good for you for pulling over.

The cop in the photo there was riding in the bike lane, then was forced to go around because of the double parked taxi. Justice!

If the driver's car weighed 16 pounds like my bike and rarely went faster than 30 mph, then yeah.

1- I bet the radio is faster than you can ride up that hill. Not pulling over when properly signalled will likely get you a trip to jail. Your bike may also be taken into evidence, and you wouldn't get it back until the case had been completely adjudicated, which could take a few years. Further, the officer would probably call a tow truck to take your bike to the evidence room, and you'd be on the hook for that bill as well, which would probably be several hundred dollars plus storage fees. Still think it's worth the risk?

2- I personally know a bike cop who is currently a sponsored racer. Please, please come to his jurisdiction (King County, WA) and try to run from him.

Doesn't matter.

In Washington, it's up to the local jurisdiction to decide if jaywalking is illegal. Where I live it's legal.

That's a bit of a stretch, don't you think? Running a red light when no one is around doesn't harm anyone else. Killing someone.. well obviously you've killed someone.

We don't demand all the same rights. We only want a tiny little bit of the road for ourselves, and not even all roads. I guess there are some folks who try to take the whole lane, but I hope those folks are in the minority.

We are driving ~30 lb. vehicles at low speeds, let's say 20 mph, (8.9 m/s) with an all-up weight of ~250 lbs. (113 kg) We are un-armored. Total kinetic available energy would be 4475 J. A typical car weighs ~3000 lbs,(1362 kg) and on a typical road in my area, is traveling at 50 mph. (22 m/s). Resulting energy imparted would be 338,157 J. The car is capable of causing 76 times as much damage.

Not only that, but it is very likely that almost all of the damage would be to ourselves, especially since we are riding surrounded by cars and trucks, and not pedestrians. So we ARE taking responsibility for our actions. We're sticking our necks out, simply by riding bikes among cars and trucks. It's a risk analysis.

A bike cop ticketing a cyclist for rolling a red light when it is safe to do so is not serving and protecting, he is hassling. Picking the "low-hanging fruit."

I do respect your idea that we should follow rules, but let's not pretend we have the same responsibilities or rights as motorized traffic. On paper, it may be the case or close to it. In reality, it is not even close to true.

OT but California law is calling for lights to be bike detectable as new roads are built/upgraded. City of san jose is experimenting with different technologies for doing so.

I have had moderate success with putting my steel frame right over the sensor wires.......but if the road is resurfaced and I can't see the wires (where they dimond sawed, put wires in and sealed) it it a lot less successful