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Sidewalk vs. lane

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Old 05-25-12 | 10:21 PM
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Originally Posted by PatrickGSR94
Those who say riding on the sidewalk is stupid/dangerous, or where it's supposedly illegal: what do you say about little kids riding their bikes on sidewalks, or what does the law say? Would you have them ride out in the street in traffic? At what age does it become stupid, dangerous, or illegal to ride a bike on the sidewalk?
I could be mistaken, but I believe that most areas do make allowances for children on bicycles with wheels up to 20" in size to ride on the sidewalk as they are learning to ride. I'm not sure what the cutoff age is. But again I would think that that would depend on the area that one is in.

It would also I would think make sense that if mom and/or dad and the kiddies are out for a ride that mom and/or dad be on the sidewalk along with the kiddies. If for no other reason than so that mom and/or dad can keep an eye on the kiddies and to teach them how to safely ride their bikes.

Originally Posted by PatrickGSR94
I'm not saying everyone should always ride on the sidewalk, not at all. I ride in the road pretty much 100% of the time, but I have no problem with using a sidewalk in a heavy traffic situation.
As with many here, I agree that as adults and unless it circumstances dictate otherwise i.e. a motorist who is bearing down on a cyclist and not showing any signs of either slowing down, or going around the cyclist. That the sidewalk is a good "out" for safety sake and I have done this. And once the danger has passed I am back out on the road.

Originally Posted by PatrickGSR94
Actually I was on a group ride a few weeks ago and was in the road the whole way, but was quite surprised about how many hipster fixie riders were all up and down, on and off the sidewalks, in the roads, back and forth, etc. Seemed very unsafe to me.
I would agree with you, they should have picked one place to ride and ride in as predictable a fashion as possible.
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Old 05-25-12 | 11:02 PM
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Sidewalks are for pedestrians, roads for vehicles. It's pretty simple.
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Old 05-26-12 | 12:55 AM
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Originally Posted by amcelroy
Howdy,

Long time bike commuter that has to vent about another commuter. I live in Austin, TX and commute 16 miles a day, and one of the roads I ride on is a 4 lane heavily trafficked road called Lamar. It has a bike lane for most of it, and there are a ton of alternate routes that parallel Lamar that can be used when the bike lanes are inconsistant. There is one spot, however, where there are no parallel routes and it is either ride on the sidewalk or ride on the street for about half a mile. I usually choose to ride the sidewalk because it is much safer and much less rude to cars to take up a lane during rush hour.

Yesterday, there was a guy on a recumbent bike in the right lane at rush hour going about 10 miles an hour causing a huge backup. It irritated the crap out of me and I come seeking advice and commuter bike etiquette.

The question: When commuting on a busy street and choosing between taking a lane or riding the sidewalk, what is the better thing to do and why?
It depends. I usually ride on the road and take the lane, because it's generally safest. But if I'm riding in the 'burbs, on a heavily-traveled, high speed arterial with no shoulder, and there's a six-foot wide, completely unused sidewalk right next to me, I'll go ahead and treat it like a bike path. I see no sense in making things unpleasant for myself and pissing off dozens of strangers in their cars just on principle.
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Old 05-26-12 | 04:24 AM
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Originally Posted by amcelroy
The question: When commuting on a busy street and choosing between taking a lane or riding the sidewalk, what is the better thing to do and why?
Depends on local laws and prevailing conditions.

In some places it's legal to ride on either, some places may impose legal restrictions. Even if there aren't legal restrictions you may decide to do something that's technically illegal on the basis you consider it to be safer (personally I've got off the road on a hill where my speed was down to 6mph and traffic was backing up behind me)

If the fastest you can manage is 10mph on a road where traffic would normally be going 40mph then for half a mile I'd take the sidewalk, assuming it wasn't busy with pedestrians. If I could manage 20mph on a road where traffic would normally be going 30mph I'd let the traffic deal with going a bit slower. A few of my local roads have 20mph speed limits and when I'm riding at or slightly above 20mph on those roads I don't even attempt to keep to one side on the basis there's no lawful reason why anyone would want to overtake and letting people squeeze past would put me in danger.

Another factor is the width of the road. I'll look at whether a motor vehicle can safely overtake me within the same lane (and make the associated judgment call of whether I'll have anywhere to escape if they do pass way too close).

Bottom line, there are too many variables to sensibly answer with a one-size-fits-all response.
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Old 05-26-12 | 07:59 AM
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Originally Posted by amcelroy
https://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=T...&z=13&lci=bike

Lost Creek has some pretty amazing hills, so be prepared

Dunno if it is any shorter, but it is a gorgeous ride and Westlake is really bike friendly. And of course Zilker is always a pleasure.
It will be a little longer by the time I get from my house to where you start. I am off Circle Drive on the other side of 71. I am driving to town today to pick up a bike at the shop and ride to Frankenbike. I will print out the directions and see what I think! As a general rule, i am not against hills and, in fact, sometimes seek them out. Looks to me like I would want to allow more time than my current ride. I might leave the house super early to avoid traffic and just use the ride to go in and take my easier ride home.

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Old 05-26-12 | 08:11 AM
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There is no "one size fits all" response to this issue. And the one question no one has asked the OP and apparently no one else has considered: is this 4-lane road, which most, if not all, here are assuming is 2 lanes in each direction, designed to handle the volume of traffic it's currently being required to handle?
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Old 05-26-12 | 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by CommuteCommando
Depends on the situation. I ride on the sidewalk only where there is no safe spot on the street. Taking the lane on a street where the flow is over 35 mph is not something I would do lightly, and not with out being damn sure the car behind sees me..
Agreed. For me it's situational. In my work commute I will take the lane, run on the shoulder, sail down a bike path, and in those trouble spots ride carefully on the sidewalk.
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Old 05-26-12 | 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by PatrickGSR94
Those who say riding on the sidewalk is stupid/dangerous, or where it's supposedly illegal: what do you say about little kids riding their bikes on sidewalks, or what does the law say? Would you have them ride out in the street in traffic? At what age does it become stupid, dangerous, or illegal to ride a bike on the sidewalk?

I'm not saying everyone should always ride on the sidewalk, not at all. I ride in the road pretty much 100% of the time, but I have no problem with using a sidewalk in a heavy traffic situation.

Actually I was on a group ride a few weeks ago and was in the road the whole way, but was quite surprised about how many hipster fixie riders were all up and down, on and off the sidewalks, in the roads, back and forth, etc. Seemed very unsafe to me.
Here it is 16 years, at which time they can also take the helmet off. In my opinion the point where it becomes unsafe is more a matter of speed than skills, and only to a lesser extent judgment. Danger on the sidewalk comes in the form of cross-traffic and you really need to be going 8-10 mph (or less!) for the drivers to correctly judge and to have time to avoid them.

To be completely objective I think that on most streets it's safer for the kids to be following their parents on the street than both on the sidewalk. But the majority of drivers won't understand that so it could be asking for trouble.
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Old 05-28-12 | 07:24 AM
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Originally Posted by amcelroy
Well, I also don't drive down the road in my car doing 10 mph at rush hour hogging a lane on a major commuter road. Part of being a bike commuter is being a good ambassador to the community; he is dealing bike commuters a huge PR blow.
consider then, what PR you send to the community by riding a bike on the sidewalk:
you are sending the message that bikes do not belong in the road; that bikes are not vehicles; that commuting by bike is not a legitimate activity to be using a road for

when the community adopts your wonderful message, how do you think they will react to other, less intimidated cyclists who Are in the road?
your actions hurt the rest of us, quit giving away our freedom to take the lane and our safety from road ragers who think we do not belong
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Old 05-28-12 | 09:26 AM
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If one decides to ride on the sidewalk, then the best action is to operate their bicycles at or near pedestrian speeds, motorists/pedestrians are generally not expecting fast moving cyclists on the sidewalk. I ride at a fairly quick speed, so I like using the roadway since this is where the average motorist spends much of their time observing, plus pedestrians are expecting faster moving traffic in the roadway.
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Old 05-28-12 | 09:33 AM
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I vote for the third option:

the "bike lane."
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Old 05-28-12 | 10:14 AM
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I vote for a fourth option, "sharrows"
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Old 05-28-12 | 10:50 AM
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Found the solution for idiot pedestrians blocking the bike path. I really want one....
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Old 05-28-12 | 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Ira B
Found the solution for idiot pedestrians blocking the bike path. I really want one....
That has got to be the dumbest ingenious idea I've ever seen. I love it!
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Old 05-28-12 | 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by PatrickGSR94
At what age does it become stupid, dangerous, or illegal to ride a bike on the sidewalk?
Here it's 12 years old.
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Old 05-28-12 | 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by PatrickGSR94
Would you have them ride out in the street in traffic? At what age does it become stupid, dangerous, or illegal to ride a bike on the sidewalk?
In New York State there is no state-wide law against riding on the sidewalk. It is up to the various municipalities to make their own law. I just checked the jurisdiction I ride in the most and there is no ordinance about bikes on sidewalks, so I can ride on the sidewalk legally. That doesn't mean it is not stupid or dangerous though. It also doesn't mean that there are actually sidewalks to ride on to begin with.

There is one narrow bridge with a sidewalk and almost never has pedestrian traffic so knowing that biking the sidewalk there is a good thing although I think I would only do it if there are large trucks around and I'd go slow and get off if a pedestrian does appear.
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Old 05-28-12 | 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by xenologer
consider then, what PR you send to the community by riding a bike on the sidewalk:
you are sending the message that bikes do not belong in the road; that bikes are not vehicles; that commuting by bike is not a legitimate activity to be using a road for

when the community adopts your wonderful message, how do you think they will react to other, less intimidated cyclists who Are in the road?
your actions hurt the rest of us, quit giving away our freedom to take the lane and our safety from road ragers who think we do not belong
Agreed, and at the same time cyclists need to follow the rules of the road, i.e. stopping for red lights and stop signs, riding with the flow of traffic, riding with lights at night. As by running red lights and stop signs they're telling motorists and pedestrians that they don't care about the law(s) of the road. Or their personal or anyone else's safety.

We cyclists need to ride in a safe, and predictable manner at all times. Anything less is doing cycling a grave disservice.
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Old 05-28-12 | 01:33 PM
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Here in FL, riding on the sidewalk at less than 20MPH is legal, unless specifically banned at the town or county level. I ride on the sidewalk when there is no bike lane, and there is traffic. I don't fly down the sidewalk, and am much more alert to crossing streets. Having been hit when i was teenager, and my wife being hit about 10 years ago, i am super reluctant to "take the lane"......
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Old 05-28-12 | 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted by PatrickGSR94
At what age does it become stupid, dangerous, or illegal to ride a bike on the sidewalk?
Stupid - when you're inconsiderate to other users of the sidewalk.

Dangerous - when you put other users of the sidewalk in danger by your conduct.

It can be entirely safe and sensible to ride on the sidewalk at any age, as long as one is considerate of pedestrians and other users.

When it becomes illegal depends on the area.
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Old 05-31-12 | 07:02 AM
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Originally Posted by contango
Depends on local laws and prevailing conditions.

I'll not comment on legalities, too many variables.

I'll note a few places I use sidewalks, and some where I wouldn't for anything, but first, my background, since it alters how I ride in the environment.

I'm relatively comfortable in traffic. I'll draft off vehicles, have spent plenty of time riding the shoulder on multi-laned highways, and have blocked my share of narrow climbs. I believe that behaving like a car makes me safer, and think the primary danger to me is drivers who fail to notice me in an appropriate amount of time, whether for physical or psychological/habit pattern reasons. I commute on a SS assault bike and average 16+mph. My previous commute was 4-4.5 miles. I'm starting a new commute that is 8-9 miles, with a possible bus option and a possible bike trail/dirt option that adds 3-5 miles.


Will Use sidewalk: The uphill side of a steep, reasonably lengthy hill on a 4-lane (2x2 plus a turn lane) road posted at 45mph and often driven at over 50. Most importantly, the sidewalk here is wide, separated from the road, and there is very little commercial access/activity (read: no side traffic entering and exiting, no pedestrians). (North Roan, Johnson City TN, S. of Carrol Creek)

Will use sidewalk, but very cautiously: a separated, and minimally signed, MUP adjacent to a 4 lane (2x2 divided) posted at 45 and often driven faster. MUP is short (<1/2 mile) and connected my residence to a feeder street. However, MUP crossed several residential streets, with limited visibility, and well back from the road intersection. This placed the cyclist in a place the driver didn't normally expect traffic from, partially obscured, and placed the automobile in a position blocking the path in normal driving behavior. MUP was also 2-way, meaning sometimes cyclists would cross "wrong-way" such that turning traffic was unlikely to look your way. Horribly designed, but avoided the 18" shoulder on the main road. (Western Blvd, Raleigh, NC, between Jones Franklin and Blue Ridge)

Won't use sidewalk: Commercial area/pedestrian area posted 35 or below. The danger of being off the road, where drivers are not paying attention, is too great.

Won't use sidewalk: 2 lanes my way (or one lane with center turn) operating well below capacity.

Won't use sidewalk: Bike lane or decent shoulder.

Will ride miles out of my way to avoid road or sidewalk: Hilly section of 4-lane (2x2 plus turn lane) posted at 45, often operating near peak capacity (but rarely well over capacity, ie, no excessive slowing). Commercial area with groceries, fast food, and other establishments. There is no safe option. While the lane may be legal, I'd rather spend 20 minutes avoiding it than 5 minutes on it. (Western Blvd, Raleigh NC, between Gorman and I-440)

Far more words than you were probably wanting, but there's my experience. I'm sure plenty folks would do it differently, and some of you probably think I'm wrong, but that's okay.
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Old 05-31-12 | 09:28 PM
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It's illegal for an adult to bike ride on the sidewalk. The sidewalks are also quite narrow along my route and I can't imagine cycling at a decent speed and maneuvering around people on any of them. Heck, people can barely walk shoulder to shoulder together on one 2 km long section.

Along that same section of sidewalk, the road is one lane wide in each direction and I don't feel at all guilty cycling on the right hand side of it or taking the lane when it is safer. The max is 40 km/hr for most of the 2 km stretch but during rush hour, even I can easily keep up and not block traffic.

I see plenty of people riding on the sidewalks. Most are riding with their children, but I do wonder about the adults weaving on and off the sidewalk to the road. That looks much sketchier than riding on the road by a long shot.
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Old 06-01-12 | 02:58 AM
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I see more than 90% of people riding a sidewalk. By their maximum speed badly reachs 15 km/hr (9mph). And all my collegues by work can't imagine how to ride by road in our traffic. And some of people ride by left side of the road. They think It's better to see the cars. Very few people ride by road with normal speed and manage to drive safety in city traffic. It's reality of my country. And some traffic police officers consider that is's fatally dangerous to ride bicycle on our roads.
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Old 06-01-12 | 04:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Ira B
Found the solution for idiot pedestrians blocking the bike path. I really want one....
Ohhhh, It's originally from Russia! It's the best solution for us.

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Old 06-07-12 | 12:23 PM
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I'm still new enough to the world of commuting that my opinions are evolving... initially it seemed ridiculous avoid riding on sidewalks. My own safety being my primary concern (and not contradictory to the safety of pedestrians on the sidewalks since it does me no good to hit them), I want to retain the greatest amount of control over my safety. On the sidewalks I have control, and on the street, the masses of random drivers have control. I have a friend who brags about how many bikers he has hit with his massive truck and I know he's not a solitary case (our fraternal bond goes back a ways and forces me to tolerate to an extent the fact that often he is a dumb, obnoxious m*f*er). Yes, a bicycle is considered a vehicle by law... but lets be honest... a bike is not a car, and I can't see much benefit in deluding yourself into thinking it is. In my city it is technically prohibited to ride on sidewalks, but it is clearly an unenforced law as I see people riding on sidewalks constantly (I have a view of a street that has a dedicated bike lane at work and even see people riding on the sidewalks there.)t

Now, however, I do ride on the street 95% of the time. I've gotten comfortable enough with various streets to know which ones are bike friendly (either dedicated lanes or simply have enough room for cars to pass bicycles without moving into another lane). And it is far more convenient to ride on streets. Still, for small stretches I have to ride on streets that do not have room for both bikes and cars, and when it's busy, heck yeah I'll ride on the sidewalk. If I do encounter pedestrians I yield, and I don't find the situation altogether dissimilar to encountering pedestrians on bike trails, except on the trails I'm going much faster.

My opinion has changed, yet I still can't climb aboard the dogmatic POV that it's always dangerous and stupid to ride on sidewalks. To me it's dangerous and stupid to assume no other drivers exist like my stupid friend.
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Old 06-07-12 | 12:34 PM
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I ride a stretch of four lane road where the right lane narrows and the left lane gets backed up where a road T's into the four lane on the left, a few blocks later the four lanes narrow to two. I'll pop on the sidewalk for half a block as there are vehicles dodging in/out to clear the slow left lane and pass on the right in my lane. There are too many people entering intersections with cell phones to their ear, big trucks who can't stop or fast cars darting in front of big trucks I opt to take the empty sidewalk for 200' and re-enter where the right lane as room. To not do that exposes me to more danger than I need on a daily basis.
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