Originally Posted by Leisesturm (Post 14503025)

Personally, I don't want to be treated like a vehicle. Only in the deepest recesses of the politicians brain could one decide that a 45lb bicyle with an overweight American with undiagnosed coronary disease is the functional equivalent of an American in a droop snout Kenilworth. Tell me, in your city, as you are tooling down the boulevard on your Specialized Cirrus, if the trip calls for a left turn at the intersection up ahead, can you signal left and merge over to the left turn lane, trip the left turn signal and proceed? Will traffic behind you lose their minds and speed up to cut you off in your attempts to merge left? Still think you are a vehicle? At best you are some sort of super ped. Kind of like a paraplegic in a power wheelchair. Are they vehicles?

The vast majority of cyclists mainly drive for transportation and cycle for recreation. As drivers it irks you to see bicyclists getting away with something. As a cyclist you feel guilty when you even think about rolling through that intersection. I am not in the slightest risk of getting T-boned when I blow through a red light because I wouldn't be blowing the red if there was cross traffic to T-bone me. Its the disapproval of the stopped traffic going in the same direction that the goody-two-shoes are afraid of. I wonder why. As soon as they get the green and catch up and pass the cyclist that has them so hot and bothered s/he is forgotten. Utterly. On to the next thing.

Despite the immense horsepower advantage of a car over a bicycle, the realities of infrastructure limits most cars to an average of 17mph. I can average 15mph some days commuting like a bicycle. Other days its closer to 12mph. The difference is usually wind. Most cars are not affected one way or the other by wind. Driven like a car my average speed on a bicyle would be closer to 5mph to 8mph and I would be better off jogging my 7.5mi. commute. People who can get in cars with speed potentials of 100mph and accept a 17mph average as acceptable won't have too much sympathy if a cyclist gives up 2/3 of their potential top speed to behaving well on the road. But I'm not going to be shamed into it. Sorry.

H

Originally Posted by mackar (Post 14460687)

Do people in US and other countries stop for red? A lot of cyclists in Sweden don't care at all about the traffic lights.

Originally Posted by Steely Dan (Post 14461347)

on a bike:

stop sign = yield sign

stop light = stop sign

Originally Posted by Burton (Post 14505697)

So whats your point? The officers in the car were responding to a call they just recieved and you were blocking their way. They would have done the same thing if you were driving a motorcycle, car or semi-trailer.

Last time I checked motorists were expected to give priority to emergency vehicles - fire trucks, ambulances and police cars with lights and sirens. Why should bicycles be an exception?

Originally Posted by Burton (Post 14505697)

So whats your point? The officers in the car were responding to a call they just recieved and you were blocking their way. They would have done the same thing if you were driving a motorcycle, car or semi-trailer.

Last time I checked motorists were expected to give priority to emergency vehicles - fire trucks, ambulances and police cars with lights and sirens. Why should bicycles be an exception?

Originally Posted by BadBoy10 (Post 14510315)

This is why smart guy: http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/201...ket-officers/2

http://www.wptv.com/dpp/news/region_...broward-county

http://www.southfloridainjuryattorne...d_sheriff.html

You are wrongly assuming I was in the middle of the right lane. I wasn't. I was in the bike lane WHICH shares the far right lane with cars and in Florida--the bike lanes are extremely narrow. Basically, you can touch the car. There is no distance.

I don't get your hostility --Get a clue, just like in every other governmental career --everyone in law enforcement should not be wearing a badge nor protecting/serving. There are some quite nasty egomaniacs wearing the badge. Wrong is wrong. To scare the **** out of someone just because you can and have a badge and a siren is not cool. You might think it is--I don't.
Every time someone says something about a police officer--does not mean we are picking on law enforcement. Umm, no, I respect and appreciate what my tax money pays for--however--stop the b.s.--my town is having serious issues with law enforcement blowing red lights, turning on sirens, killing people and repeatedly--there was no reason because they were not responding to a call.

Clearly, this isn't an issue in your city. Good for you.

Originally Posted by contango (Post 14510271)

.......
The way BadBoy also said that "The looks on the faces of the drivers was one of horror" doesn't paint a picture of a jackass cyclist refusing to move for an emergency vehicle, more a jackass cop who couldn't bear the thought of waiting for a cyclist.

Originally Posted by BadBoy10 (Post 14485803)

I try to obey. I look three and four times.

However, if I am at a stop light and via mirror see or "hear" a car speeding towards me approaching the stop light--- I get the hell out of the way.

Two years ago, I was quite proud of my mastery of road riding. Then one day my fragile bubble burst. As I waited in the far right lane (for the light to turn green)--- a police officer approached in a marked squad car, blew his "horn", turned on the sirens and did the microphone/intercom thingamajig at me. That intercom thing was LOUD. He yelled, "GET OUT OF THE WAY! NOW!"

He was very aggressive and kept blowing his horn/siren. I was quite embarrassed. He scared the crap out of me. The looks on the faces of the drivers was one of horror. I felt like crying. It was very intimidating. Did I say I was embarrased? He was literally right on my back wheel.



I refuse to bicker with drivers. Its whatever. I get out of the way quickly.

Originally Posted by mrleft2000 (Post 14512048)

Usually when emergency vehicles turn on their sirens/lights, you are suppose to move out of their way so they can pass you (or not move if it means that they can pass you). I'm pretty sure that is the law in most places. Why did you think you could just stay there blocking them?

Originally Posted by Novakane (Post 14497370)

If I don't see any cars, I slow down at stop signs to the point where I could stop quite shortly if need be, then scan all directions and will roll through if there's no other traffic.
Basically treating it like a yield.
Naturally, if there are other vehicles at or approaching the intersection, I stop and wait my turn to go through - not only is this the law, it's just safer that way.

+1 on the comment that drivers will sometimes wave you through because you're acting sensible and predictable.

I always stop at red lights.
I narrowly avoided getting completely taken out by a car about 13 years ago by not doing so, and I decided to not push my luck and never make that same mistake again.

Originally Posted by LetzRide (Post 14509684)

Well put. I do not sit at an intersection with clear line of sight and wait, yielding to imaginary cars. Sometimes I have to stop or slow at green lights at intersections with no line of sight because of cars running lights or turning in front of me, usually without so much as a signal. I say do what is best to stay alive, but don't kowtow to cagers and their rules. Just keep your distance so they can't get you.

Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike (Post 14512921)

Well put, thank you LetzRide. Excellent first post.

Enuff with the sanctimonious hot air and PC "stuff" from the old hands of BF who apparently can't view the traffic situation at any intersection, no matter what the sight lines are, without slowing down, stopping, and/or waiting for permission from inanimate objects.

I would add that waiting or even slowing down for imaginary traffic, or complying with traffic signals/signs at empty intersections in order to be Dudley Do-Rights isn't necessary for staying alive, it is also a waste of time when cycling and detracts from the pleasure of cycling.

When I want to play at being a lawful motorist I use my car.

If some pious/anal cyclists get their pleasure from waiting at empty intersections and proclaim themselves the standard bearer for righteous cycling, good for them; but they are fooling themselves if they think they are earning some sort of brownie points from the public for themselves or for cycling in general.

Originally Posted by Burton (Post 14511835)

Maybe you should re-read your own posts - all of them.
As for this last one:
"This is why smart guy.."
"You are wrongly assuming ....."
"Get a clue...."
"There are some quite nasty egomaniacs wearing the badge......"
"stop the b.s..."

And lets not forget "I don't get your hostility --"

Funny - I'm not seeing all the hostility in my posting - yours on the other hand I have some doubts about. :innocent:

I read all those links you posted. Sorry - somehow that just don't seem to back up your claim that: "-my town is having serious issues with law enforcement blowing red lights, turning on sirens, killing people and repeatedly--there was no reason because they were not responding to a call."

Course people tend to see what they want to see and you and I may be looking for different things anyway.

If ALL motorists were given citations based on their actual driving rather than just the times they were caught - 99% of the population in the USA would lose their permit within a week. Why pick out cops?

But I am curious - how exactly did you manage to confirm that they were not actually responding to a call? Or is that just an assumption?

What I posted was:
"you were blocking their way. They would have done the same thing if you were driving a motorcycle, car or semi-trailer."
That has absolutely nothing to do with wheither you were in a bike lane sharing their lane or not. In fact, can't see any real issues with my original post. Personally I've put the car on the sidewalk to let emergency vehicles pass. Maybe they were just going for coffee or maybe they were responding to something serious like that shooting you just had in Colorado.

I don't make it my business to police the police. Just managing my own life seems to be a full time job - wouldn't want the extra responsibility.

Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike (Post 14512921)

Well put, thank you LetzRide. Excellent first post.

Enuff with the sanctimonious hot air and PC "stuff" from the old hands of BF who apparently can't view the traffic situation at any intersection, no matter what the sight lines are, without slowing down, stopping, and/or waiting for permission from inanimate objects.

I would add that waiting or even slowing down for imaginary traffic, or complying with traffic signals/signs at empty intersections in order to be Dudley Do-Rights isn't necessary for staying alive, it is also a waste of time when cycling and detracts from the pleasure of cycling.

When I want to play at being a lawful motorist I use my car.

If some pious/anal cyclists get their pleasure from waiting at empty intersections and proclaim themselves the standard bearer for righteous cycling, good for them; but they are fooling themselves if they think they are earning some sort of brownie points from the public for themselves or for cycling in general.

Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike (Post 14512921)

Well put, thank you LetzRide. Excellent first post.

Enuff with the sanctimonious hot air and PC "stuff" from the old hands of BF who apparently can't view the traffic situation at any intersection, no matter what the sight lines are, without slowing down, stopping, and/or waiting for permission from inanimate objects.

I would add that waiting or even slowing down for imaginary traffic, or complying with traffic signals/signs at empty intersections in order to be Dudley Do-Rights isn't necessary for staying alive, it is also a waste of time when cycling and detracts from the pleasure of cycling.

When I want to play at being a lawful motorist I use my car.

If some pious/anal cyclists get their pleasure from waiting at empty intersections and proclaim themselves the standard bearer for righteous cycling, good for them; but they are fooling themselves if they think they are earning some sort of brownie points from the public for themselves or for cycling in general.

Originally Posted by Novakane (Post 14513485)

If the intersection is totally empty and there's a clear line of sight for a good distance in that scenario going through a red might be possible but I still don't, and it's very rare that I encounter an empty intersection here and most don't have as good of a line of sight as I'd like to consider doing so safely.
Many times I've been waiting at an empty intersection and seen cars going well over the speed limit come out of nowhere and blow through the intersection or make a fast turn (they do have the green light and right of way, so, fair enough they aren't expecting cross traffic). Sometimes they're doing this on a yellow, I've seen people speed up to race through instead of stopping. These experiences and others have led me to consider it better to feel a little silly waiting for nothing to happen than to take a chance.

Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike (Post 14513553)

If you choose to wait for green lights and make full stops at empty intersections with clear lines of sight, in order to avoid collisions with vehicles that come from nowhere, so be it.

If I had a similar fear of collision with vehicles coming from nowhere I wouldn't feel safe from these magical vehicles even with a green light, or after a full stop, or anywhere else while cycling; with the rules of the road or without them.