New bikes sold with internal hub, vertical dropouts?
#26
Palmer

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 9,169
Likes: 2,275
From: Parts Unknown
Bikes: Mike Melton custom, Alex Moulton AM, Dahon Curl
Disconnecting the shift cable on my Sturmey XRK8(W), RS-RF3, SRAM T3, iMotion3 or S7 hubs adds maybe another 5 seconds to removing the rear wheel. There's weight and rolling resistance to consider with 'bullet proof' tires. YMMV.
#27
I'm confused as to the benefit of a quick release with an IGH. Because of the cabling for the shifter, it is never going to be easy to pop the wheel off of an IGH bike, and my strategy would be to use a bulletproof tire so that I never have to fix a flat, and then not worry about it. In terms of production models, one bike which I know of which is offered with an eccentric BB is the Thorn Raven.
I don't find the cabling hard to deal with. Once you've done it a couple of times, it's pretty simple.
#28
born again cyclist
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,412
Likes: 88
From: Chicago
Bikes: I have five of brikes
on my IGH bike, the longest part of removing my rear wheel is loosening the axle nuts. disengaging the cable from my alfine 8 is pretty damn quick and simple now that i know what i'm doing. just pop in a tiny hex wrench to release the tension on the cable, then pop the nut out. done. what does that take, maybe 5 seconds?
if i had a QR axle for my IGH, it wouldn't be substantively longer than removing a conventional derailleur wheel with QR.
#29
Been Around Awhile

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 30,680
Likes: 1,991
From: Burlington Iowa
Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi
Perhaps the OP can state why he wants the unique and unusual setup for a bad weather commuter and the $5 solution to his problem won't work.
Last edited by I-Like-To-Bike; 08-24-12 at 12:15 PM.
#30
Carrying a 15mm wrench or a 6" adjustable and buy the standard setup seems to be a lot more sensible and far less pricey IGH solution for every bad-weather commuter cycling scenario that I can think of.
Perhaps the OP can state why he wants the unique and unusual setup for a bad weather commuter and the $5 solution to his problem won't work.
Perhaps the OP can state why he wants the unique and unusual setup for a bad weather commuter and the $5 solution to his problem won't work.
Convenience.
#31
It actually takes me longer with a derailleur wheel! I always end up having a little trouble getting the cassette past the derailleur arm.
#33
Senior Member

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 22,676
Likes: 2,643
From: CID
Bikes: 1991 Bianchi Eros, 1964 Armstrong, 1988 Diamondback Ascent, 1988 Bianchi Premio, 1987 Bianchi Sport SX, 1980s Raleigh mixte (hers), All-City Space Horse (hers)
#34
The Windsor Kensington actually has forward facing dropouts, not vertical dropouts. It's the best dropout option for the Kensington. Vertical dropouts require chain tensioners or eccentric bottom brackets for setting chain tension. Rear facing track dropouts usually require you to remove the fender to remove the rear wheel. Forward facing dropouts take care of both issues.
#35
A conventional drop out really works best for IGH if you are looking for economy and ease of use, and as stated allows for easier wheel removal if you run fenders which are almost mandatory on most commuter bicycles.
An eccentric bb and vertical dropout is nice solution but does add cost as a decent eccentric will add costs and they are not totally problem free and more complex than a conventional bottom bracket.
There is a little learning curve when it comes to removing and re-installing an IGH wheel on a conventional frame as you have to know how to set the chain tension and dial in the shifter, the vertical drop out and ebb eliminates this.
Track ends are a good solution when you are not running fenders and tug nuts can be used to easier alignment of the wheel and tensioning of the chain.
An eccentric bb and vertical dropout is nice solution but does add cost as a decent eccentric will add costs and they are not totally problem free and more complex than a conventional bottom bracket.
There is a little learning curve when it comes to removing and re-installing an IGH wheel on a conventional frame as you have to know how to set the chain tension and dial in the shifter, the vertical drop out and ebb eliminates this.
Track ends are a good solution when you are not running fenders and tug nuts can be used to easier alignment of the wheel and tensioning of the chain.
#36
As for vertical dropouts, they were a nice addition to bikes that had derailleurs and would allow wheel removal/installation without the need to readjust the rim brakes but when it comes to IGHs, (IMHO) horizontal dropouts are the better choice over eccentric BBs.
#37
Been Around Awhile

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 30,680
Likes: 1,991
From: Burlington Iowa
Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi
Are you serious? Do you actually believe convenience is driving the trouble and expense the OP is proposing with his peculiar requirement for a bad weather commuter? He already stated his reason is because of his "dislike" for horizontal dropouts and nutted axles based on his fussy inability to get "it" right. Whatever "it" is, it is not convenience.
#40
dazed and confused
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 251
Likes: 0
From: Ireland
Bikes: 2011 Cube Hyde Team Alfine 8 IGH, 2007 Giant Rock hardtail mtb
That intimidation is just fear of the unknown. People don't want to accidentially damange an expensive part. Once shown that intimidation disappears. For those of us too lazy to go to a shop or living our lives online thank god for youtube. Of course once you've done it a couple times it's no big deal. But that first time, I was anxious.
#41
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,079
Likes: 1
From: Potashville
Bikes: Reynolds 531P road bike, Rocky Mountain Metropolis, Rocky Mountain Sherpa 10, Look 566
It seems to me that a horizontal dropout would be easier to use than an eccentric bottom bracket. I don't understand why igh bikes don't come with track dropouts, myself. I almost considered buying a Masi Chixed mixte for that reason (until I picked it up and realized how heavy it was).
#42
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,079
Likes: 1
From: Potashville
Bikes: Reynolds 531P road bike, Rocky Mountain Metropolis, Rocky Mountain Sherpa 10, Look 566
I'm confused as to the benefit of a quick release with an IGH. Because of the cabling for the shifter, it is never going to be easy to pop the wheel off of an IGH bike, and my strategy would be to use a bulletproof tire so that I never have to fix a flat, and then not worry about it. In terms of production models, one bike which I know of which is offered with an eccentric BB is the Thorn Raven.
The first time I ever changed over to studs for my Metropolis, I first put the back tire on backwards, then pinched the tube and had a blowout, then finally got it right. Doing it three times in one hour was great practice and now it's dead easy, but I don't recommend that second step for obvious reasons.
#43
Palmer

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 9,169
Likes: 2,275
From: Parts Unknown
Bikes: Mike Melton custom, Alex Moulton AM, Dahon Curl
Unless of course it's one of the many IGHs where the cable is slackest in the highest gear.
#45
Thread Starter
Newbie
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Thanks for all the replies. (And hi Mark!)
To start, I never realized the cable tension changed on an IGH depending on what gear you had it in. I've never paid attention to what gear it was in when I took the wheel off. Maybe that's part of the "fussiness" I'm claiming to find. Also, I also look at this as the "work bike", so I usually want to have my trailer hitch on the axle, and for the winter I have a set of Reelights that I like to run, which also go on the axle, so trying to get all those things tightened onto the axle and also get the chain tension right, well, it's kind of a pain when you only have two hands, especially if I'm changing a flat on the side of the road in 30-degree F weather. (Thankfully, that doesn't actually happen too often, but theoretically it could. But my garage is none too warm in the Maine winter either, even with a space heater.)
What seems to happen is that I'll get it right before I start tightening, then when I tighten it seems the chain is a different tension than when I started tightening. I've learned to tighten alternating sides a little bit at a time, instead of each all at once, but it still sometimes takes me a few tries. I think I'm just a slow learner mechanically.
Finally, the hybrid I'm looking to replace is getting pretty old and the dropouts could be getting corroded or worn, so I'm sure that doesn't help.
By the way, in terms of the shifter cable issue, after several times taking the cable off and not being able to get it back on (I told you I'm not mechanically inclined), I did figure out how to change the tube without taking the cable off, but of course that still involves at least taking the wheel out of the dropouts.
Anyway, thanks for the education. The Axle Release product in particular looks like a good compromise. Sure, it only saves you having to carry a wrench, but I might consider them worth the convenience for the reasonable price.
To start, I never realized the cable tension changed on an IGH depending on what gear you had it in. I've never paid attention to what gear it was in when I took the wheel off. Maybe that's part of the "fussiness" I'm claiming to find. Also, I also look at this as the "work bike", so I usually want to have my trailer hitch on the axle, and for the winter I have a set of Reelights that I like to run, which also go on the axle, so trying to get all those things tightened onto the axle and also get the chain tension right, well, it's kind of a pain when you only have two hands, especially if I'm changing a flat on the side of the road in 30-degree F weather. (Thankfully, that doesn't actually happen too often, but theoretically it could. But my garage is none too warm in the Maine winter either, even with a space heater.)
What seems to happen is that I'll get it right before I start tightening, then when I tighten it seems the chain is a different tension than when I started tightening. I've learned to tighten alternating sides a little bit at a time, instead of each all at once, but it still sometimes takes me a few tries. I think I'm just a slow learner mechanically.
Finally, the hybrid I'm looking to replace is getting pretty old and the dropouts could be getting corroded or worn, so I'm sure that doesn't help.
By the way, in terms of the shifter cable issue, after several times taking the cable off and not being able to get it back on (I told you I'm not mechanically inclined), I did figure out how to change the tube without taking the cable off, but of course that still involves at least taking the wheel out of the dropouts.
Anyway, thanks for the education. The Axle Release product in particular looks like a good compromise. Sure, it only saves you having to carry a wrench, but I might consider them worth the convenience for the reasonable price.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
JohnBrooking4
Bicycle Mechanics
9
08-24-12 09:46 AM






