Yeah, we have some of these signals where I live too and they mostly suck. The timers often don't reflect actual traffic conditions. The light would rather have me wait 2-3 minutes when there is very little cross traffic. No thanks, I'll go through the red light anyway.

You wish death or serious injury on somebody for being a "repeat offender" blowing a red light? You wish to expand that suffering to the conscience of the driver who collided with them? You sound like a wonderfully friendly and reasonable person.

A. Sounds like a really poor implementation.

B. Natural selection at work. It's also a horrible example for children ... most red lights here have signs that state "Children are watching so don't cross on red."

C. Do what you will, but don't expect me to shed a tear if/when you get hit. I'd feel worse for the driver (if it was red.)

The above comments coming from you are a surprise and disappointment. I had given you more credit than you deserve.

Seriously. Those type of riders make it more dangerous for the people riding correctly and they're a horrible example for the next generation of riders. Everyone on BF should be against people riding in that manner.

Yes, at some signals this is sadly the case but it can be improved.

Waaaa! Think of the children! :cry: And you have a poor understanding of what natural selection means in this kontext.

Is it really more dangerous? Where I live literally thousands of people are safely going through red lights and stop signs all across the city. Where are the reports that show these cyclists cause death and mayhem by rolling through red lights and stop signs when it is clearly safe to do so?

Bicycles and motorized vehicles are two VASTLY different modes of transportation. They both get you from A to B. That is where the similarities end. I am a firm believer that bicycles do NOT have the same responsibilities as motorized vehicles when it comes to red lights and stop signs. I believe that cyclists can approach these signals SLOWLY, and STOP if needed to allow cross traffic AND pedestrians to cross before proceeding through the red light or stop sign.

I have done that every single day of riding for the past 15 years and have never crashed, collided into a car or pedestrian or another cyclist. I will continue to roll through red lights and stop signs.

"Those type of riders" vice people riding "correctly"? Make "it" more dangerous?
Baloney!

Here come the insults from one of the guys that thinks he is smarter than everyone else. Sharks tend to meet your anti-social (solitary) life-form category, they seem to do quite well. Seems you are also not aware of asexual species.

Exactly. It is inconvenient to me and so therefore I safely disregard these rules that were designed for motorized vehicles. Besides bicycling being a wonderful form of exercise, saving money, creating less carbon emissions, etc, one of the major reasons why I love my bicycle is the independence it gives me. Part of that independence is being less tied down to stop signs and red lights because my mode of transportation affords me the ability to safely go through these traffic control devices.

Media sensationalism at its finest! Breaking news! Bicycle runs stop sign! Let's send a team right out there to count the number of other naughty cyclists doing the same thing!

I promise you that stop sign, as the 30 min news shot uncovered, is being blown 90% of the time year round. Right now as I type this some cyclist just rolled through it. And how many deaths have occurred? Probably not many. The vast majority of cyclists are able to go through red lights and stop signs because it is safe to do so. Through route experience I know which lights or stop signs I can safely go through based upon lines of sight, traffic conditions, etc. If I can't accurately see very far to my right or left, I WILL come to a complete stop and wait.

Were you actually run down???

O, you evil anti-social life-form, your doomed to immediate extinction.:lol:

GO read
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/q...446296016?pg=2

Some of the comments on that page are the reason i don't think it is a good idea to run red lights. It tends to stir up the agro driver and they all get on the kill Cyclist band wagon :(

The vast majority of cyclists are able to go through red lights and stop signs because it is safe to do so.

And in many cases drivers of automobiles can quite honestly make the same claim.

Oh my, an article with hate comments. That is so rare that we had better change our views and behavior immediately.

Missing the point, it is those people we have to share the world with . If doing something generates the hate of the common motorist , no matter how practical it seems to us it may not be the best idea ... they are the ones with the 2 tons of steel and plastic :( .

While i normally agree with the implied "should not conform just to make the mass's happy " if it is putting my self and other Brisbane Cyclist at risk should i still do it ?

You are missing the bigger point, the people that put up those hate post are never going to properly share the road no matter how perfect little angles cyclist become. Unfortunately for you, you have more haters than most of the rest of us.

today I saw student who ran a red light getting a ticket from a cop on a motorcycle and I asked "how much" when I rode buy.

he shouted €180 and 6 points (same fine as a car.) cop said "not so inexpensive". the 6 points does suck as 18 points in 5 years and one has to do a mandatory medical and psychological assessment (MPA).

he won't be running any more lights any time soon.

Sounds fair since cyclist cause just as much injury and death as motorist when they cause a collision.

You're delusional right? There is no way this is true.

Thankfully that won't happen here in the US (the medical psychological test). Certain cities in America points can be "earned" against your driving license, but since I don't drive this doesn't concern me at all. In Portland there are far too many cyclists to keep track of and ticket. As long as bicyclists know the major areas cops setup sting operations you'll be unseen by cops 99.99% of the time. Also, the way I see it, if I am caught running a red light and have to pay the $200 fine it won't bother me or be a huge expense.I don't drive, pay insurance, pay for parking, pay for car maintenance, or pay for gasoline; and so what is the big deal if I were to get a ticket once in a blue moon? I've been going through red lights and stop signs on a daily basis for 9 years since I've moved here and never once been ticketed. I treat these red lights and stop signs as yield signs and have been very successful at staying alive, not causing a single accident, and getting to my destinations faster than a car or public transit. I do come to complete stops and wait a full light cycle at three different intersections on my commute because it is 99% impossible to cross without a green light due to extremely heavy traffic. I know through route experience which I can go through safely and which ones I can't. The key here is don't get in the way of any cross traffic or pedestrian crossing because clearly they have the right away. But if there is 500 foot gap in cross traffic, why should I wait? I'm actually safer going through red lights and stop signs than waiting!

Then you'll continue to have a much higher accident:mile/km traveled ratio.

If/when €180 ($234 equivalent) and 6 points (18 points in 5 years mandates medical and psychological assessment) penalties are implemented and enforced in the U.S., with no significant change to the bicycling environment in urban areas, the miniscule rate of adult cycling for transportation in urban areas will shrink to infinitesimal.

What should happen is that gas prices should be taxed more to build cycling infrastructure. In addition, a portion of the revenue generated from vehicular infractions should be spent on cycling infrastructure.

I also disagree with you as the fines are both the same price (car or bike). It seems that people get speeding tickets all the time and that doesn't prevent them from driving?

You can't place any single individual into a statistic. My time for injury or death can come if I'm following the law or not.

The threat of tickets shouldn't really scare the cautious red light or stop sign runner. All senses must be on high alert to make it safely to the other side without harming others or oneself. Thus, if one is doing it correctly, they should be able to spot the police on the road idling on the side, just waiting for those naughty naughty cyclists.

:lol:

not you, as in "you", but you as in "the cycling community within the US."

as far as you in person:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stochastic_processes

Thanks for the link; wish I understood the mathematics involved. What is a quick layman's explanation of the Stochastic process?

The Idaho law says different. Cyclist legally treating stop signs as a yield and red lights as stop signs, improved cyclist safety.