I just took a couple months off of commuting after tearing a calf muscle. (mighty hard to pedal when that happens.) drove to work or took the train most days, leaving me to watch the cyclists instead of pedaling alongside y'all. noticed a couple of things while I was away:

Drivers suck. I was appalled at the number of times motorists cut close or simply blocked cyclists. News to no one, but it seemed much more frequent and egregious when I saw it happen to others.

Cyclists appear reckless. It seems like most cyclists run red lights and stop signs. As a cyclist myself, I could tell that most of them were slowing down and looking both ways before proceeding, which I confess to doing myself. But as a driver, even as one who loves to commute by bike, I found this infuriating. Mostly I think the problem was "cars aren't running red lights; why are bikes?" though there was also the petty resentment of losing ground on others.

Cyclists move at highly variable speeds. This may seem obvious, but compared to cars there is a lot of heterogeneity in how fast cyclists ride. Sure, there is the occasional leadfoot or slowpoke, but for the most part drivers keep up with each other. We cyclists are all over the map. Many of us are happy to plod along at 7-8 mph, while others are looking to maintain 13-15. And of course you have the occasional crazee trying to set Strava records downtown. Because there are rarely two bike lanes side by side, this leads to a lot of us darting into traffic to pass. It hadn't really occurred to me until I was watching from the minivan.

Lastly, I was a lot happier when I started commuting again!

Wow, two months, that's HUGE. I tore a muscle three Monday's ago and after 3 weeks of driving to work, I can't wait until I can start riding again. it's the muscle that attaches my right leg to my body, but I'm making progress . . . done with the crutches, done with the cane, still on lots of ibuprophen though. But I am walking on my own and want to try riding soon; just not sure how soon.

Anyway, in addition to the things you've noticed (and I agree with) I seem to see lots more salmon (riders riding against the flow of traffic) than I see when I'm riding. I do see salmon, of course, when I'm riding but there are just so many of them! Salmon on the sidewalks, salmon on the street, they're everywhere!

Actually, when I drive, I'm on the freeway most of the time, but I do drive some surface streets too.

Just hope I'm back on the bike before two months!

Rick / OCRR

Ouch! That sounds extremely painful. How did you tear your calf muscle?

Yup, the key here though is appears reckless. I don't think many cyclists just barrel their way through a red light or stop sign without some sort of effort to see if there is oncoming traffic, though I have seen it before on occasion. Like you I slow down significantly to see if there is oncoming traffic / pedestrians before proceeding through a red light or stop sign. Many times I'm forced to come to a complete stop for several seconds before going through.

Yes, I think this is jealousy. Drivers are jealous that bicycles can, more often than not, safely go through red lights and stop signs. One of the reasons I love to bike is because I can safely disregard "the rules of the road" which were never designed for bicycles in the first place, and so I arrive at my destinations much faster than if I drove or took public transportation. If people in cars are jealous of bicycles abilities to safely go through reds and stop signs, why not join the fun?


That is awesome I went 4 weeks without riding once because of travel, and during that time I was a bit depressed because I missed my bicycle so much! It felt amazing to get back on it.

Yup! It's the salmoning that really gets me infuriated!

Happens all the time...

I do believe that sometimes they're all on contract to get me!
Runnining red lights seems to be the major theme of most bicycle commuters. We want equal access to the roads, but not equal responsibilty for obeying the law. The law is there to protect us all. Not just cyclists, motorists, or pedestrians...

"Losing ground to others", I think that's more of a guy thing....

However, I have observed a few females engage in leap frog, as well, but that's rare. It's mostly us guys!
There should be some kinda doctoral study done on this phenomenon for some poor and unfortunate post-grad student.

It's funny! We do it while driving cars and riding motorcycles, too!


This is quite true. However what drives me crazy, is when some idiot cyclist breaks his neck to pass me, only to slow down and practically forbid me to pass him back up!

Glad you're back in the saddle again...

I got frustrated at fellow cyclists while riding this weekend and almost told them off at a stop light. A nice wide bike lane. Two riders riding side by side with one over the line in the vehicle lane. I couldn't believe such stupidity. I am very wary of the right hook at stop lights. Passing stopped cars on the right is my biggest worry as not everyone uses blinkers.

I have definitely become a more vigilant driver because of my commuting experience.

I hope the calf muscle heals well; I've been battling a pulled hamstring which I think is 95% healed.

Sounds good that you are back on your bike, I can't imagine how painful how that must be. I ride my bike all the time but I also take rest time, that is very important in order to keep your muscles rest. I do take brake time one to rest a day or two the most, is good and when riding a bike comes back again I feel great. Just a suggestion....good luck!

I have, on occasion, ran red lights. I do it primarily because my morning commute is early enough that there are hardly any cars on the road and I don't fee like waiting for traffic that isn't there. I just treat the red lights like stop signs. I stop, look both ways, and if I don't see any cars coming I go. I do the same thing in my car. I really wish traffic signals were based on traffic load.

You should never ever run a red light in your car under any circumstances!

Glad you're back on the bike! I was sick for about a month, and didn't want to jeopardize my convalescence by spending long periods of time in the cold. It sucked, and I can feel the loss of conditioning when I hop on a bike.

That said, 7-8 MPH seems kind of slow. Must be a "got up early, can take their time" kind of pace.

So any cyclist riding greater than 15 mph is crazy. And you do not think cyclist should take the lane to pass you.

Um, no. I average 15-16 and am annoyed by the 7-8 crowd. I was just pointing out the variety of speeds.

This won't make me popular but IMO most cyclists ARE reckless. And until it becomes oficially legal for bicycles to ignore stop signs and traffic signals - the behavior isn't just infuriating to motorists - its illegal. And it really doesn't matter how many people on this board think its OK - its still a ticketable offence everywhere I'm aware of.

If anything its both hypocritical and condescending to expect to claim equal right to motorists on the road without accepting equal responsibilities. Oh yeah - take the lane! But lets skip the stop signs and traffic signals because - thats just ..... inconvenient! Yeah -lots of drivers suck from a cyclists point of view. Probably because they feel no more respect for cyclists than they feel cyclists are showing them.

Yeah IMO too many cyclists are both reckless and stupid. I brought up this case before and I'll do it again - an 18 year old boy was killed by a truck this summer on a section of the bicycle path I commute on almost every day. There was a stop sign there - he ignored it. I mean - stop signs on bicycle paths are just plain stupid -right? Thing is - that was the point where the bicycle path crossed an entrance to an industrial park and no one else had a stop sign. He ended up under the wheels of a truck.

I'd like to say it was an isolated incident and couldn't happen again, but the news channel filmed that corner for a half hour and not one cyclist stoped at the sign.

And I get EXACTlY the same treatment trying to cross an intersection at the end of my street on a bicycle. There's a stop sign on the bike path on the other side of the street and a stop sign on both sides of the street. Motorists have no problem stopping to let me cross. Cyclists? I've had three close calls because they'd rather run down another cyclist than stop for anyone.

I think if cyclists in general want more respect on the streets - they're going to have to start showing some first.

Drivers suck
I have to say, where I cycle, the drivers are a-ok. Most of them. Most of the time. Sure there are the occasional suckers. Right in the center of town, yeah, they get more sucky.

Cyclists appear wreckless
I always stop at red lights. Firstly, it gives me a breather . Secondly, ya never know when the car behind you is an unmarked cop. Thirdly, I dont want to give the perception of being "those cyclists always jumping red".

Cyclists move at variable speeds
Most of the time I have enough space to get past slower cyclists as we can share the bus lane (also shared by taxis and motorcycles) and even if I need to move into the 'car lane', I usually manage just fine. BUT it gets worse when getting into the city as there are a lot more cyclists and heavier traffic, more pot holes. I just hold back at a respectable distance until a passing opportunity presents itself.

We do accept equal responsibility. Virtually all motorist speed, roll stop signs and fail to stop on right turns on red. So under your equal responsibilities, it is allowed for virtually all cyclist to roll stop signs and red lights.

+1

Yes! Bravo!!!

I agree 100% and see people burn through stop signals ... these are dedicated stop signals for the bike lane only and are timed to operate in certain conjunctions with the stop signals for the cars and peds at intersections (we have three different dedicated lanes and signals at most major intersections ... one for autos, one for bikes and one for peds).

I've seen a couple close calls and wouldn't mind seeing a few of the repeat offenders under the wheels of a truck/over the hood of a car. It's more likely that they'll just get a ticket, which does happen occasionally, and goes against your driver's license here.

I think your English needs a little review. A few synonyms for 'responsibility' are: "contract", "duty", "engagement", "obligation", "pledge", and "trust". As in: The right to use a vehicle on a public road or hold a drivers license comes with the obligation to respect the law, and the duty and responsibility to look out for the rights, and personal safety of others. This compulsary engagement is a requirement that is intended to both protect personal and public property, and assure your own personal safety.

Your own comment basicly states that anyone elses decision to act IRRESPONSIBLY gives you the right to do the same. Not only is that a copout - its not accepted as a legal defense. But I guess for lots of people it must be an easy way out and the story of their lives. EVERYTHING unacceptable in their miserable little lives is probably someobe elses fault.

Why not leave everyone else out of it and decide what YOU believe in. Because actually your life and actions are all a testament to what you believe in anyway.

+1. unfortunately, for most people, doing what everyone else does is OK.

This is hard for most people as it requires the ability to make internal decisions in the presence of external contradictory environmental cues. A "mob mentality" usually prevails.

It should be noted that I think those are weak reasons for people to make poor decisions, but it hasn't stopped me from exploiting the weaknesses of others through those methods.

I'm between moving to a new place, living with parents for the time being while new duplex near work clears out at the end of the month. Forced into 40min car commute. Biggest thing I've observed over a month or so is my weight -- up 5lbs. Don't feel any energy crawling out of the car and I can really see how vicious of a cycle it can get for suburbanites that force themselves into this situation. Can't wait till next week, when I finally get to test my rain gear against the winter months of Oregon winter.

The old straw man of trying to put words in others post.

You have good advice for the motorist who carry the greater duty due to the greater damage that their vehicles cause on on a daily bases. You should be posting on the motorist forums rather than making excuses why motorist hate cyclist in these forums.

Your chasing your tail when you harp on cyclist for saying 'same roads same rights' while ignoring that extremely few motorist accept the contract while you are demanding all cyclist follow the contract. Especially when FRAP and bike lane laws are designed to make cyclist subservient to motorist.

Actually my post didn't favor either cyclists or motorists. Some people will behave like jerks regardless of what they ride. One thing I do have very little use for is people who think the world centers around them. There are almost 7 billion other people in the world - it shouldn't be all that tough to show a little consideration for the few we trip across on a daily basis. It really doesn't matter if you believe in God or evolution or reincarnation - when you get down to it - antisocial behavior is nothing short of suicide.

What an extreme view of cycling.

PS - The Idaho cycling law improved cyclist safety.

LOL Yeah - after a quick look at your last weeks postings in this forum - I'm not surprised that went over your head. Thats not my view about cycling - its my view about life in general. Social life-forms florish - anti-social (solitary) life-forms eventually .... just disappear.

I have few observations to make about other bike commuters because I rarely ever see any around here. I wish there were more.

I generally follow the same rules of the road as cars. I stop for red lights, stop signs and school buses. However, I generally do a rolling stop at stop signs, and I "run" one red light every day -- after coming to a full stop -- because the sensor will not detect bikes and won't change unless a car comes along. At 6:30 am, I might be waiting at that light for 30 minutes if I didn't run it.

Actually, I probably hadn't given this proper observation. It's a good point, and I wonder if it's a piece of the puzzle on why drivers are misjudging bike speeds so often on right hook incidents.