I don't get this. Maybe, as you mentioned in your other thread, it's just a St. Louis thing. I certainly don't get this vibe here in Sacramento.

Last night on the way home from work I had to stop by the LBS to buy a new blinkie. I'm wearing a buttondown shirt and dresspants with the super-dorky velcro anklestraps. Nobody, but nobody, thinks I look cool.

Had a nice chat with the girl behind the counter who rides a cruiser and a nice chat with the guy in the repair shop who rides a Specialized in Team Domina colors. On the way home, I see the fastest wheel in town, a pro rider who makes his living riding a bike (and fixing them). He's heading the different direction, obviously on the tail end of a training ride but still going down the road like a bat out of hell. I wave. He waves back.

I realize that this is just anectdotal evidence of Sacramento's friendliness, but then it's just anectdotal evidence of St.Louis' racism and jerkiness that informs your posts.

Maybe you should move west, young man....

The whole thing about racers not riding to races is ridiculous. Does Michael Schumacher (or Dale Jr. for you NASCAR fans) drive up to Indy in his race car? No, of course not. Would you put 50 miles on your legs before a race? No, not if you wanted to win.

Good one. :D If the distance is about 20 minutes and riding there could be a good warm up. I do that a lot. Unfortunately, most of the major races you do have to drive because they are more than 100 miles away!!!! I drive a 15+ year old jeep and always fear that that sucker would fail on me. I can't afford another car and I hit cars too. I don't normally enjoy riding my Orbea in the NYC unless I am commuting/training with it. Even my commuting route I specifically choose bike lane or bike path to ride on.

::sarcastic clapping:: Way to generalize. I mean, I'm not a roadie as I'd like to call them, I think gram counting is silly and agree to an extent that if you drive to an area to ride you bike on the weekends and hop back into your car you're not a cyclist, but wow, just wide sweeping statements founded on nothing but irrational prejudice.

I wittled down what you said, a little. It all looks so reasonable to me, now. After all, the only racer I know, is a TOTAL jerk. Still, I love him. Hate the sin, not the sinner!

As far as that,"god help me if there is not a kernal of truth" biz, I'm telling you that lumping the good with the bad, is the start of racism. So all noble commuters, group hug, before we give anemic bike riders a giant diet coke.

The problem is not everybody has trails in there backyard.

Thank you, LordOpie. I just have the need to make sweeping prejudicial generalizations once in a while . . . ie RANTS. Apologies to all racer-types. Heck, what am I saying. Eat my wheel-dust!!! :)

The statements above can be said for more than just racers... it permiates through all of cycling and it is unfair to pin it on one group of cyclists.

Cyclists who ride fast (not just racers) are in a little different situation of group training rides, ride fast or get dropped. When a pace line or pack approaches an intersection at 30+ MPH the likely hood of the group stopping is slim to none. Of course we are taking groups that are 20+ and riding in a pack. In some states when I group has 6+ riders they are allowed to take the whole lane...

As someone who does race I can say that on a training ride just like in a race intensity can be high (Is high in a race) and that makes people do stuff they normally would not do.

For example...
1. You just got caught at a red that 90 percent of the group got through... what do you do? Most of the time they run it, stopping for even a minute can put you so far back that it is nearly impossible to catch up solo.

2. In my case at work as a bike officer we have a thing called code 3 (drive as fast as you can to get to the scene), usually exemplified by lights and sirens (even though I do not use them on a bike). I have done some quite risky things in code 3 situations, expecially when I know that someones life may be in danger. Of course I do not do stupid things but risky things. Adrenaline can make you do crazy things.

When you are solo there is no one that is going to drop you or leave you behind. You can obey all traffic laws, common courtsey, etc. Most of us on a training ride will show that kind of courtsey. 4000 + bikes are not just for "racers" anymore. Many people I ride with who go no more than 18 MPH ride simular bikes. Postal jerseys... same thing. I personally own a 3000+ dollar bike, not because it is the lightest thing out there (well 19.5 pounds in a 63cm) but because it is light and strong (BTW a 18- 20 lb bike in my size is not bad... no sub 15 pound bikes avalable for my size). I hit potholes and crap all day long.

As to the car thing just read above. I am doing a century tomarrow and I am not riding 70 miles there to ride 100 and 70 miles back... hmmm. Also see any crit racers riding to the local crit? No because for 30 - 60 - 90 minutes of total power is a necessity to win and 1 ounce that is not used for that is wasted...

Maybe it's just me, but dang all of this poseurs this, wannabe that, and finally the 'spandex crowd', it all sounds like a driver's rant and not the rant of a true cyclist. Bill just sounds like he is bitter about not being apart of the club. This whole us versus them thing is so ridiculous. Yeah, we all commute, but I seriously doubt that many of the members of this forum don't own a car. I know there will be some who can say that they don't own a car, I know I did it for year when I lived in a city with a decent public transportation system. But come on, I seriously think that most of the complaints on this forum are more indicative of the attitude people take out with them onto the road than jerk cyclists, racers, or drivers. You have to think that if everyone you encounter is an elitist, a racist, or a jerk, just maybe you're the one with the problem.

That's true. My point though isn't so much that they are driving, more that cycling is more of a weekend hobby than a way of life or a legitimate form of transportation.

Ah, yes. By all means, let hardcore commuters and transportational cyclists look down on the racers as weekend hobbyists. What a bunch of losers....

[Now who's the snob?]

Geez, I was going to respond to this but Opie is right -- let the guy rant! That's why they call this a public forum.

Life, especially sports or "recreation", is funny in that there is always some kind of pecking order (probably not the best choice of phrases). Whether I am stepping on a basketball court, a baseball diamond, or putting my leg over a bicycle there is always going to be someone who makes me feel unaccepted. That has a tendency to go away if I can prove myself. Sometimes I DON'T belong and I have learned the truth of that. Just last night, I found myself thinking badly about a guy on my basketball team (What in the world makes this guy think he can play basketball?). Some people have all the gear and none of the skills. Some people have the gear and the skills to boot. Some people are going to respect you because you have the skills. Some are going to respect you because you have the gear. Some don't care, period.

Aren't I just Mr. Wisdom?

I guess everyone rants about something sooner or later. Heck I might even be the target of a rant someday as I'm a right wing conservative SUV driving cyclist who rides 4000-5000 miles a year (commuting, centuries, etc.) and doesn't race only because I'm too slow. I'm not a techno junkie...all three of my road bikes are 20 years old or older.

Where we need to be careful with generalizations is that we all ride things called bicycles whether they're mountain bikes, road, recumbent, or whatever...and we all use streets, trails, MUPs and the like. We all need to band together for advocacy causes to ensure that we have safer streets to ride, adequate mountain bike trails, MUPs that can be enjoyed by all, Velodromes, or whatever turns your crank (pun intended). Just because I'm not fast enough to do crits doesn't mean I'm not going to support racers when the system isn't working for them. I would hope that they would side with commuters with our needs when necessary (adequate bicycle lanes or signage etc., commute friendly street layouts, bike racks). 'nuff said.

good, feel better now?. Got it all out now? Good, that's better, isn't it. OOOOmmmmmOOOOmmmmmmm
krishna krishna, hara hara, krishnu krishnu, hara krishna

kumbya my lord, kumbya. kumbya my lord, kumbya. oh lord, kumbya. (lets all join hands now)

Yes, much better, thanks . . . now on to "right wing conservative SUV driving cyclist who rides 4000-5000 miles a year" . . . those &*(^*()&*()!!!!!!!!!

Hello there??? Racing isn't a hobby. Is a way of life. If you are a cat 4 and don't at least get 15 hours of training each week, you are not competitive. More hours if you want to win. What you do during the off season and winter??? You ride your bike. If you work full time and race, you do nothing but work, train, race, and recovery.

I don't HATE anyone, especially a fellow cyclist. But, I wish there were more of MY sort of cyclists (the jeans, sandals and tee-shirt cyclists, the suit, tie, and wingtip cyclists) and fewer of the "I'm pretending to be Lance" cyclists.

THOSE guys convince "Joe Public" that cycling is about as "mainstream" as sky diving. I'm still hoping folks figure out that riding a bike is for EVERYONE, any age, any weight, any income, anytime, anywhere, wearing any clothes...or not.

You know. A few things bother me about the original post. First of all ranting over something you cannot control or will never be able to change (especially if you don't act to change because you spend all your time ranting) is just a waste of time. You should be out riding your bike.
Secondly, There are many different kinds of cyclist. Some fast. Some slow. Some like large groups some like solo. Cycling is more than mere excercise it is a freedom of expression. That is the beauty of this sport. If my fellow cyclist can afford a 4k rig and feels comfy in pink spndex then that is cool. If he/she can average 24mph on the local club rides then hell who am I to complain or hate that. I'm a bit jeolouse but certainly don't hate that person.

I have never really met a bad cyclist until possibly now.

I am. That's because I am clearly better than those that drive cars on a regular basis.

Riding because you want to win, and riding because its a healtiher better way of life are two different things.

Do you think the only time I ride I wear spandex? I own 10 bikes and all of them are made for different reasons. Why do you think that because you only ride in T-shirts and jeans you are better than someone that rides in only spandex? You think you are some kind of elitist because you ride on 2 wheels? My 5 year old son can ride a bike. We have a couple on homeless guys too. Your the problem with the sport. You would rather see less people on bikes so you can feel you do something extreme in your life. Well guess what?

No you just live closer to your job, etc.

Strange I think the 2 go hand in hand. Riders that win races are in better shape than the guys that tool around. Do you think that guys that ride to win could have picked an easier way to do so? Or maybe they are really good at riding a bike; fast.

Your just another bike elitist that thinks he knows the true meaning of the sport(yes I said sport). You and alanbikehouston should write a book so all us other riders can become enlightened too.

Wrong. You can't win if you are a fat lazy bum. :) Living a healtheir life is given and required if you want to race. Period.