Pretty much this. Drivers are terrible at judging the speed of cyclists. The assumption is once they overtake a cyclist they will never see them again.

Once you understand this it's way easier to ride in a defensive manner. Basically my philosophy is set myself up to be reasonably visible and approach every situation as if I'm invisible.

my biggest problem by far is other cyclists. the motorists actually behave very rationally.

Other - I'd say making a left-turn in traffic.

Come to Arkansas.

been there several times ... never cycled there for obvious reasons :(

we have excellent cycling infrastructure but cyclists still screw around. i see a lot of ninjas in the city. however, the salmon going the wrong way in the cycle land usually get out of your way if you're heading the right way. they need a little more cycle traffic enforcement. cyclists running red cycle stop lights is one of biggest pet peeves, especially when there's a "only on green, the children are watching" sign on top of the ped and cycle traffic signals.

I answered #2 & #4 for the same reasons listed by others.

Had an incident last night that I would like opinions on.

I was first at the light. Rolled all the way to the crosswalk to give the car behind me room to pull up and trip the switch for the traffic light. The light went through the cycle and did not trip. I motioned the driver to go ahead and pull up some. They did not. Then noticed they had put on their right turn signal. I moved farther to the left and motioned them to go on past me (plenty of room on my right). Still sat back there. Light cycled again. Now the block after the intersection is lined on the right with parked cars. I know when the light ever changes, this car turns right, the other drivers in line, who probably have not been able to see all of the proceedings, are good and steamed by now. What is at the front of the line? A da_ _ bicycle! I couldn't stand it any longer. Got a break in cross traffic on the 3rd light cycle and ran the red light. I hate to do that. Not out of fear, but rather trying to build some understanding (with the vehicular traffic) that bikes have the same rights and responsibilities as other vehicles on the road. I just don't want to use my carcass as the foundation for the build!

Suggestions on how to have handled this?

Cars are the most dangerous in my book specially when they are texting on their phones or talking, pedestrians get insulted some times when you ring your bike bell some smile at you and my last one will be Ninja Bikers, I so want them to buy a light....but they feel like the conquer the roads with out having lights on their bikes...lol....that is what I think.

Hey neighbor !

I have that happen occasionally in the 'Ville. I move left to let right turners go--sometimes they do, sometimes they dont. I try to keep in mind, we out in the open and our spacial stuff is a higher level than theirs, I mean, even though we think we are giving them plenty of room to squeak by, a 5'1" women in a huge SUV might think she cant. I like to think cap people appreciate seeing one of "them" who is obeying traffic laws, though . . . As for what other people think, well, you never know. No matter, you cant please all people all the time. I try to remember that I have done nothing wrong, if they are in that much of a hurry and that angry, it is a "them" problem, nothing to do with me.

Be safe :beer:

Voted "other".

These kind of cyclists are the reason I feel most vulnerable and at risk on my bike.

riding in the city on crowded urban streets always lined with parked cars, my two greatest fears are doorings and jaywalkers popping out between parked cars. you can't see them until you're right on top of them; very difficult to anticipate.



exurban arterial streets are the absolute worst in my experience. thank god i don't have to deal with them often. they have all the crazy, hectic, high-volume, rage-inducing traffic of the city, and the fatal high-speeds of country roads. riding a bike on a 4 lane exurban arterial with no shoulder is NOT my idea of fun. when i ride up to my sister's house in the far northern burbs of chicagoland (lake county), i have to ride about a 2.5 mile stretch of grand avenue to make the final leg to her house and it freaking sucks. i'd gladly ride out of my way to avoid it, but none of the subdivisions up there in the boondocks communicate with each other, so there's absolutely no way to side street my way around it. no shoulder, 50 mph speed limit (which means cars are running 60 mph), and enough traffic that trying to take the lane will get you promptly run over. it sucks.

As a motorcyclist from age 16, I viewed all motorized vehicles as irresponsible/unlikely to give any attemtion when it came to my safety, thus adopted a defensive driving attitude which carried over to cycling. Doesn't matter if I'm on a MUP or highway. My longtime goal is to raise the odds of avoiding an accident and that means time and place, that is picking the time and place where I ride. It also means awareness, visibility, descionmaking.

I'm a recreational rider. It'd be more difficult if I was a commuter as time and place would be more constrained unless I made other decisions (where to live or work).

As to occasional forum comments from posters advocating a more aggressive attitude (take the lane for example)...well..if an aggressive attitude results in a negative attitude about bikers in general, that's counter productive... I save such energy for advocacy on capital improvements that truly increase safety. Be it MUP planning/construction, tunnel safety, shoulder improvements, signage, organized rides, etc.

What is/are your big safety "problem(s)" with other cyclists? Besides being "peeved" at them for not being like you?

Classes

A. Ninjas (about 15 of the 100 cyclists I see every evening)
B. Salmon (about 5 of the 100 cyclists I see every evening)
C. People running red lights (about 3 of the 100 cyclists I see every evening)

Reasons

A. I can't see them and when I have a green in the bike lane and someone joins without a light it makes it very hard to see them coming out of a side street (Copenhagen solved this with a fast and slow lane in each direction)
B. Most salmon get out of the bike lane if they're going the wrong way but it's a hassle for the pedestrians and gives us a bad name
C. If there are 4-6 of us stacked at a major intersection and someone pushes their way around to the front of us and then runs a red in a traffic gap it makes drivers hate us. Also, why spend billions of € on infrastructure (we have our on bike lane signal with sensors to trigger the entire intersection) if it's not going to be used properly. If these people get snipped by traffic I won't shear a tear.

+1 Arterial roads in the suburbs are the absolute worst. We have a lot of them in my area.
Luckily for me I have figured ways to get around these type of roads. Getting around and bypassing these roads takes a bit of extra effort and adds extra time to my commutes, but I'd rather take longer route then risk getting run over by some speeding driver texting on their cell phones. Some cyclist on internet forums just fail to realize that taking a lane or even riding on some roads would be a suicidal thing to do. That's why I have my own style of riding which I adapted to the conditions which I have to deal with each day, I don't care what other people do.

Most at risk at intersections, all of the various situations.

see, when a cyclist doesn't follow his/her track of lines and individual signals it can easily mess everyone up ... that's why they're painted clearly on the street.

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=291648

That's mine, too. Last night it almost happened twice from the same parking lot. One car was turning left and almost pulled out in front of me. Just as I was pulling past it, another car to its right was making a right turn and had to slam on its brakes to avoid hitting me.

Granted, you can avoid accidents in most of these situations by being aware and ready with your brakes, but there are so many times when I see people pull out into the street without paying attention that it seems like it's only a matter of time before my timing is bad and someone hits me before I get a chance to brake.

Bolded text is important...


Again, checkout the bolded text.

I'm not a commuter (that could change in the summer), so my opinion is invalid as I'm not a "real" rider (yet). However, my point is that as a cyclist you should try be as predictable as possible. As a driver, I am constantly scanning the road ahead of me. I want to know who is doing what and where I need to be to avoid/accommodate them. When I am in the car, know who scares me the most? It isn't the peds, it is the bikers who run red lights etc.

Just a rant on a similar situation-

I ride straight ahead on this road with a green light. People can merge from my right, but they have to yield. It's common for people to just merge without looking or to see me and pull right in front of me. I even had one guy honk at me like I was the ******* when he was the one who had to yield.

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x...pse9876628.jpg

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x...ps82da4cc1.jpg

I understand that their sartorial choice upsets you but it would be nice if you could provide a single example where a "Ninja" harmed or injured you.

I am pretty sure the OP did not ask about "pedestrian hassles" or the psychosocial perception of cyclists by motorists.

You are awfully concerned with the thoughts of motorists, aren't you. This makes me wonder whether you are answering this question from the perspective of a motorist or from the perspective of a cyclist.

May I suggest a more appropriate venue for your fantasies of cyclists being hit by motorists:

http://forums.automotive.com/69/1031/suvs/

I have called in a Fed Ex driver for passing and then right hooking me, to the company.

It's pretty clear that there are people that post a lot in A&S that never or almost never ride a bike. The people here do. I don't see anything wrong with his thread title.

Not so good at reading comprehension, eh?

No, I find it ridiculous that the government invests literally billions of € in cycling infrastructure (a recently study showed that it costs roughly 1M USD to build one mile of proper urban cycle highway) and that people don't employ it correctly.

Of course I'm concerned with motorists, they wield the 1500kg object.

I'm sorry that I don't ride in the standard craphole situations that you guys do :lol: and that my biggest problem is ninja, salmon and people running red lights :D

and for what it's worth, the SUV forum is wrong, because we hardly have any in Frankfurt. A ton of Porsches, but not many SUVs, as they're quite distasteful/unsightly.

The Porsche SUV certainly is odd, outside of in the Paris - Dakar rally.

That seems like poor planning, if the dashed cycle lane continued straight and into the shoulder at the end of the merging lane, the potential for conflict would be greatly reduced.


In response to the original question: where I live, large, fast arterial roads are unavoidable on pretty much any trip so my biggest worry comes when I have to cross two or three lanes of traffic to make a left turn. When I'm going straight, either taking the half of the rightmost lane or a shoulder, drivers are predictable and a cyclist going straight is predictable for drivers so there's no stress, but having to track cars in front and behind me in all three lanes while also checking the road conditions and the fullness of the left turn lane while moving at 20-25 mph in traffic going 30-60 is a challenge.

As that's why very few people ride for transportation here in spite of our city's numerous bike lanes and paths, a climate that's great for cycling most of the year, and the natural beauty that makes people want to go outdoors. I've been told by numerous people that they too would love to be able to leave their cars home for short errands or the daily commute to work, but competing with cars is just too scary, so we have the catch-22 that you have to first be a strong, confident cyclist to even consider riding.

Except that he said that athletic riders are not real. I am not currently a bike commuter, but I have been both a bicycle and motorcycle commuter at various times in my life. I ride about the same way in town no matter what reason I am riding for. I ride about the same in rural areas no matter what reason I am riding for. OP is being a little bit foolishly exclusionary there.

The OP's choice of the words "Real Cyclist" to name his defined target group of cyclists was unfortunate. The term"Real Cyclist" as typically used as a self description is similar to the use of the phrase "Serious Cyclist" or "True Cyclist". In most cases it usually is used by elitists or self righteous types to disparage those who don't meet the snooty cyclists' standard for cycling. That is not what the OP intended; maybe he should have just used the term "Commuter Cyclist" since that is what he described in his definition.

I feel most vulnerable watching your videos.

Like people have already mentioned, I feel most at risk when the cars are going way faster than me and overtaking from behind, the worst is HGVs overtaking with all those knobbly looking bits that look like they would hook onto your clothes if you were closer.

Also I sometimes find big roundabouts a bit hectic to tackle, having to change lanes can be quite hairy especially on fast roundabouts.normally they are okay if they are small, or big with traffic lights.

Normally on smaller roads the cars don't go that much faster than you so I find that okay.