I Feel most vunerable in large lines of traffic or around tall vehicles where people can't see you.

The only times I've had problems is:
1.) a professional driver (and I'm using the term liberally to mean someone who drives for a living) passing you with traffic coming the opposite direction.
busses, dump trucks, taxis, and semis have all either come close to or have run me off the road. A taxi clipped my shoulder with his mirror once. a bus ran me into a 5 foot deep ditch. trucks have honked or squeaked past me.
2.) SUVs obstructing other peoples view of you. For instance, you're on a 4 lane road and need to make a left and have an SUV or truck behind you. Getting into the fast moving lane to make that turn can be dangerous and is the only time I've been hit and taken down. Usually someone in a hurry, passing slow moving traffic very quickly.

I agree totally. The worst stretch I encounter is suburban 40mph, non shoulder or bike lane with most vehicles wanting to exceed 45-50mph. I'm constantly watching the rear-view mirror. Downtown is almost therapeutic in contrast.

My only issue is getting buzzed within 3 feet, at any speed. And when it happens downtown, I usually catch up and confront them very quickly. Got one charged, going to court as a witness shortly. I commute to work year round, but I'm also a kitted roadie when doing so, on a carbon road bike(in the summer) and can easily mingle with motorists. I personally find that cyclists are their own biggest danger. They bike too slow, don't react quickly and don't take charge of the road. I've seen people pull over to the right until there's an opening to make it to their intersection on the left. What they SHOULD do is huff and puff, speed up, spot an opening, signal and TAKE THE ROAD. Slow down the traffic, signal again when they get to their intersection and if they have to stand in the middle of the road (as any car would do) for traffic to open up on the oposing lane, you do so!

I see commuters put put along at ~15km/hr and stop pedaling when they start going downhill. FFS you're slow as it is, shift and keep pedaling so you don't need to be passed constantly!

When you get to a red light, TAKE THE LANE. You shouldn't be passed in an intersection.

Anytime you approach an intersection, TAKE THE LANE.

Got a roundabout coming up? TAKE THE LANE! But for your own sake, don't stop pedaling on public streets unless you need to slow down because you're keeping up for traffic.

Recap, I'm not afraid to be on the streets, but when a motorist does something out of line it really gets me mad and I'll do what I can to get him punished!

Roby!

I don't see this stretch of road as a problem, make good eye contact with upcoming drivers, let them know you're going for it, point at them if you have to! Come to Ottawa, these similar situation routes have the cycling crossing lanes erased and replaced with potholes instead! Seriously tho... we don't even get the dotted lines to set the expectation. They just randomly end the lane and start a new one where they can.

Roby!

So when I commute I am real and when I train and race I am imaginary? So if I were to talk about my experiences of being hit by cars twice - once while I was commuting and once while I was training, the commuting one is the only one that counts here? Weird!

Exactly. This morning when I rode to work, I was real. At lunch, when I went out to do intervals, I was not. This evening, when I ride home, I will be real again. It's like a bizarro Velveteen Rabbit.

Anywho, I agree with Steely Dan. Sprawlville always feels sketchier than downtown.

So true. Our bikes lines are an afterthought. They paint lines here and there but rarely complete an entire road.

The dutch have the right attitude...as long as what you are doing does not harm someone else its at your own risk.

Motorists do not generally hit cyclists because they are upset that the cyclist violated a minor traffic statute. Motorists tend to hit cyclists because they were yapping, diddling, fiddling, masticating, or gulping.

PS: PDX and Frankfurt have similar cycling mode share.

I agree with those who say higher speed roads with no shoulder or bike lane. Basically, roads that are designed with only cars in mind. I currently live in Taiwan, but lived in the Houston area most of my life. Here, everyone expects bicycles to be part of the mix on the road and generally speaking, roads in the city have lower average MPH than in the US. In Houston, many roads have no shoulders and posted speeds of 40-50 MPH. Much scarier when when people drive faster, have no patience, and insist on squeezing by where there's no room.

Don't get your Spandex(R) in a wad.

I too sometimes costume up and ride my Cinelli Supercorsa dripping with Campy for fun. It ain't the same thing as utility cycling in the "real" world. When I ride for a workout or pleasure, I pick the time, I pick the place, I pick the day of the week, I pick the smoothest roads, I pick the path, I pick the weather conditions, or I pick the stationary trainer indoors, or I choose not to ride that day at all. Time is rarely a factor during my pleasure ride. I am in total control of my time and my environment. These are situations I am not interested in for THIS particular Poll. Yes, now and then other road users affect me negatively in the park, but much less than during my forced march commutes.

"Real" cyclists are committed to the bicycle no matter what. We must get to work, drop the kids at school, get groceries, visit doctors, the post office etc., on the bike regardless of how we feel that day, often on roads not of our choosing, and in weather that sucks. We have a time commitment. "Real" cyclists don't want to leave home a freaking hour early to avoid the rush hour, take safer roads, or appeal to the tender sensibilities of every motorist along the way. We just want to arrive alive. Often our bikes are tools, not toys. We don't necessarily commute for enjoyment. Honestly, I don't even consider myself a cyclist at all. I just ride my bike to work and everywhere else because I don't want to own, maintain, insure, protect, park, and gas up an automobile for the privilege of doubling my commute time by sitting in line behind a bunch of cars watching the same traffic signals go red/green three times before I can get past the confounded things.

So my interpretation of "Real" cyclists still stands. Sorry the word "Real" has other meanings for you. None of the real cyclists here seem to be complaining about my nomenclature. I simply want input from a certain group of cyclists MOST of whom visit the Commuting Forum regularly. I think the comments here have been quite educational and on topic so far within that demographic. "Real" cyclists, as defined by me for THIS poll, seem to know who they are.

Iz dat right? I'm complaining about the use of that term due to the derogatory baggage attached to its use by some elitist and/or self righteous types.
Tell me how I don't make the grade as a Joey Brand Real Cyclist.

+1

OK. I'll try again.

Imagine a Bushman in Africa a hundred years ago living a true hunter/gatherer lifestyle. He has a small bow with small arrows (more like darts) with poisoned shafts. His life literally depends on this tool. His bow is not a toy. This fellow must have a certain level of skill with patience, tracking, stalking, and shooting his bow with accuracy. If he fails, he dies. His bow is his life.

Now imagine a modern day fellow up in a tree in a deer stand with an expensive compound bow and aerospace technology arrows, LED sights, computer generated camo clothing, and scent masking compounds on his body. He is well practiced in the art of hunting and shooting his weapon accurately. What happens if this fellow strikes out all season and kills nothing? He climbs down from his perch and into his Tundra/F250/RAM and drives to the nearest steakhouse. Is he gonna starve if he fails to bring home meat with his bow? Hardly.

Who is the "Real" archer here as defined in this thread? In a forum poll, who's advice would I seek if my goal was to live off the land?

That's what I'm talking about. Just substitute a bikes for bows. Get it now?

Making left at an intersection doesn't worry me as much as people making left opposing on straightaways. The other day I had one come within 4 ft of my front end almost head on in a sudden left only to stop in my path because there was a blocked sidewalk. I had 25 watts of forward lights and was going at speed limit in-lane. Her passenger was the most scared of all...

My bicycle is my main source of transportation, and I appreciate being called "real" - but I think that doesn't make other cyclists not real. As a matter of fact, I would (almost) argue the opposite. I have to ride to the grocery, the post office, the library etc. However, there are roadies in my town and on these boards that voluntarily train and dream and work and make the investment (both financially and emotionally) and ride their hearts out. I'm very much impressed by that kind of dedication. Perhaps the term "real" should not have been used - Commuters are no more real than roadies are no more real than mountain bikers are no more real than fixie hipsters are no more real than bmxers are no more real than touring riders are no more real than cargo bikers etc etc. Maybe the thread should have been addressed to commuters or utilitarian/urban riders without using the semantic "real".

I chose the word Real as a hook to get people to click the headline. Then I took the time to define Real for THIS POLL ONLY. Outside of this thread everyone may return to their own interpretations of the word. "Commuting cyclist" still covers too much ground. I was looking for people who are mostly "stuck" (yet another debatable term) getting around by bike. I wanted input from folks who depend on their bike as part of their life - because these people are forced to ride under conditions no one would normally choose on a daily basis if they were playing on a bike.

For the record, I am "Stuck" with traveling by bicycle in this thread even though I could very easily use public transit, buy or rent a car, walk, or use my inline skates to commute. The most cost effective, reliable, safe, fast, and convenient means of getting from A to B is without doubt my bicycle. So figuratively I am STUCK with it as defined right HERE.

Yeah dude, but as I said, when I used to be "real", I rode the same as I do now. Which leads me to believe that you should spend some time getting your attitude adjusted. Are you sure your name is Joey, not Richard?

Yes, you made that clear in post #1 "By Real I mean people who use their bikes daily (or very often) for utilitarian purposes like getting to work, running errands, getting groceries, etc." I think we all understand what you meant, but it's not surprising that others would be offended.

Yeah. Your OP definition made sense though the use of "Real Cyclist" was an indication of your own agenda.
This post indicates that you think that only desperately poor cyclists or commuting cyclists with no other options are the only Real Cyclists who know the score about commuter bicycling safety. Input from all Unreal Cyclists who bicycle commute by choice has no value to the likes of Real Cyclists such as yourself.

Next time you are looking for attention just put the word Walmart or Helmet in your headline.

I voted in the poll before I got to the post clarifying that the OP was specifically looking for input from commuters and utilitarian cyclists who do not have/use other options (I interpreted the original definition a little bit differently). Disclaimers: 1) I have a car. 2) I use the bus for the bulk of my morning commute to work (but I ride my bike all the way home).

Anyway, I voted crossing intersections on the green because of left-turning motorists coming from the opposite direction. Even when I make eye contact, I'm not always sure that they won't try to make their turn in front of me.

I also voted other for situations like the following:
On one part of my commute, I make a right turn from a side street onto a major street, from which I then have to make a left turn fairly quickly. I don't have much time to get all the way over into the turning lane with traffic bearing down on me. I have a strategy for it now, but in the early days of my bike commuting, there were a lot of close calls as I tried to figure out what to do.

Your mileage may vary on this one, but I've discovered that if I'm hugging the curb approaching an intersection where the light is green opposing drivers turn in front of me; if I take a lane and ride on the left side of the lane (read: not in the oil lol) then they give me the right of way. Just my experience.

Hey, that's me! Do you have any examples of these cyclists who committed suicide by taking the lane? Or are your comments based on your perceptions and fears?

Look, I know it's scary at first to to take the lane in front of 50+ mph traffic, and I admit I avoid it if I can.

But I've also learned that it's far from the death wish that all non-cyclists and even most cyclists seem to believe it to be. Drivers really do see me, and really do treat me with care when I take the lane on these roads.

Put on your Hi-Vis, turn on a bright rear blinky, take a peep in your helmet mirror and give it a whirl. It's quite empowering when you learn that traffic will respect your right to the road. 7 and a half years of commuting and I've yet to have an incident or close call in this situation.

HeeHee :lol:

Joey: I have no issue with your definition of real cyclist. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and as usual yours ruffles a few feathers. Whoopie, it's the internet.

For me it's clearly the first option- overtaking. I find that riding with a mirror helps a lot in that regard. I often take the lane, and the mirror shows that most drivers change lanes early to get around me. If they don't I go on high alert and occasionally I will bail out to the gutter or sidewalk. This is pretty seldom, but with the mirror I can make intelligent decisions. It seems like when I hear of people getting hit by cars, at least around here, it is when cars are overtaking bicycles and run right up their poopers.

+1

That is a misunderstanding. I should have been clearer.

What I am hoping for is a large sample of folks who use their bikes to get to work exclusively. I have plenty of friends who never ride a bicycle except when they have a utilitarian need - never for fun or fitness. However, I realize there is a wealth of information to be gained from commuters who sometimes ride for fun, or actually enjoy riding to work (I do not enjoy riding to work). Also folks may be trying to keep their weight down or maintain a base fitness level for racing or touring.

So if I had to narrow it down to two groups, 1. Pure Commuters (better choice than "Real"), and 2. Commuters with other agendas for cycling to work.

I want to be clear that I value input from both categories on this matter. I was simply trying to push the sample towards #1 without totally excluding #2. Pretty simple. Was not trying to hurt feelings or disrespect any forms of cycling. I most definitely was trying to maximize the number of people clicking the headline as well.

Would I love a sample from desperately poor commuters? You bet. I doubt they are hanging out here at BF due to lack of Internet access.

This is a little bit OT, but I just linked to joeybike dot com from your sig and spent a little time - outstanding site! I'm going to start reading through the Life Well Lived blog. Nice work sir

That is a distinction that never occurred to me. Has to vs enjoy, for a real cyclist.

I may have been real only for a few months as a rank beginner then, until I worked myself into good enough condition that I no longer hated it. So I've always considered that stage to be more like a physical deficiency. Maybe your perspective on this is a little narrow.

Why would anyone have to ride a bike? Why not just use the excellent public transportation?

:innocent: