I have called in a Fed Ex driver for passing and then right hooking me, to the company.

It's pretty clear that there are people that post a lot in A&S that never or almost never ride a bike. The people here do. I don't see anything wrong with his thread title.

Not so good at reading comprehension, eh?

No, I find it ridiculous that the government invests literally billions of € in cycling infrastructure (a recently study showed that it costs roughly 1M USD to build one mile of proper urban cycle highway) and that people don't employ it correctly.

Of course I'm concerned with motorists, they wield the 1500kg object.

I'm sorry that I don't ride in the standard craphole situations that you guys do and that my biggest problem is ninja, salmon and people running red lights

and for what it's worth, the SUV forum is wrong, because we hardly have any in Frankfurt. A ton of Porsches, but not many SUVs, as they're quite distasteful/unsightly.

The Porsche SUV certainly is odd, outside of in the Paris - Dakar rally.

That seems like poor planning, if the dashed cycle lane continued straight and into the shoulder at the end of the merging lane, the potential for conflict would be greatly reduced.


In response to the original question: where I live, large, fast arterial roads are unavoidable on pretty much any trip so my biggest worry comes when I have to cross two or three lanes of traffic to make a left turn. When I'm going straight, either taking the half of the rightmost lane or a shoulder, drivers are predictable and a cyclist going straight is predictable for drivers so there's no stress, but having to track cars in front and behind me in all three lanes while also checking the road conditions and the fullness of the left turn lane while moving at 20-25 mph in traffic going 30-60 is a challenge.

As that's why very few people ride for transportation here in spite of our city's numerous bike lanes and paths, a climate that's great for cycling most of the year, and the natural beauty that makes people want to go outdoors. I've been told by numerous people that they too would love to be able to leave their cars home for short errands or the daily commute to work, but competing with cars is just too scary, so we have the catch-22 that you have to first be a strong, confident cyclist to even consider riding.

Except that he said that athletic riders are not real. I am not currently a bike commuter, but I have been both a bicycle and motorcycle commuter at various times in my life. I ride about the same way in town no matter what reason I am riding for. I ride about the same in rural areas no matter what reason I am riding for. OP is being a little bit foolishly exclusionary there.

The OP's choice of the words "Real Cyclist" to name his defined target group of cyclists was unfortunate. The term"Real Cyclist" as typically used as a self description is similar to the use of the phrase "Serious Cyclist" or "True Cyclist". In most cases it usually is used by elitists or self righteous types to disparage those who don't meet the snooty cyclists' standard for cycling. That is not what the OP intended; maybe he should have just used the term "Commuter Cyclist" since that is what he described in his definition.

I feel most vulnerable watching your videos.

Like people have already mentioned, I feel most at risk when the cars are going way faster than me and overtaking from behind, the worst is HGVs overtaking with all those knobbly looking bits that look like they would hook onto your clothes if you were closer.

Also I sometimes find big roundabouts a bit hectic to tackle, having to change lanes can be quite hairy especially on fast roundabouts.normally they are okay if they are small, or big with traffic lights.

Normally on smaller roads the cars don't go that much faster than you so I find that okay.

I Feel most vunerable in large lines of traffic or around tall vehicles where people can't see you.

The only times I've had problems is:
1.) a professional driver (and I'm using the term liberally to mean someone who drives for a living) passing you with traffic coming the opposite direction.
busses, dump trucks, taxis, and semis have all either come close to or have run me off the road. A taxi clipped my shoulder with his mirror once. a bus ran me into a 5 foot deep ditch. trucks have honked or squeaked past me.
2.) SUVs obstructing other peoples view of you. For instance, you're on a 4 lane road and need to make a left and have an SUV or truck behind you. Getting into the fast moving lane to make that turn can be dangerous and is the only time I've been hit and taken down. Usually someone in a hurry, passing slow moving traffic very quickly.

I agree totally. The worst stretch I encounter is suburban 40mph, non shoulder or bike lane with most vehicles wanting to exceed 45-50mph. I'm constantly watching the rear-view mirror. Downtown is almost therapeutic in contrast.

My only issue is getting buzzed within 3 feet, at any speed. And when it happens downtown, I usually catch up and confront them very quickly. Got one charged, going to court as a witness shortly. I commute to work year round, but I'm also a kitted roadie when doing so, on a carbon road bike(in the summer) and can easily mingle with motorists. I personally find that cyclists are their own biggest danger. They bike too slow, don't react quickly and don't take charge of the road. I've seen people pull over to the right until there's an opening to make it to their intersection on the left. What they SHOULD do is huff and puff, speed up, spot an opening, signal and TAKE THE ROAD. Slow down the traffic, signal again when they get to their intersection and if they have to stand in the middle of the road (as any car would do) for traffic to open up on the oposing lane, you do so!

I see commuters put put along at ~15km/hr and stop pedaling when they start going downhill. FFS you're slow as it is, shift and keep pedaling so you don't need to be passed constantly!

When you get to a red light, TAKE THE LANE. You shouldn't be passed in an intersection.

Anytime you approach an intersection, TAKE THE LANE.

Got a roundabout coming up? TAKE THE LANE! But for your own sake, don't stop pedaling on public streets unless you need to slow down because you're keeping up for traffic.

Recap, I'm not afraid to be on the streets, but when a motorist does something out of line it really gets me mad and I'll do what I can to get him punished!

Roby!

I don't see this stretch of road as a problem, make good eye contact with upcoming drivers, let them know you're going for it, point at them if you have to! Come to Ottawa, these similar situation routes have the cycling crossing lanes erased and replaced with potholes instead! Seriously tho... we don't even get the dotted lines to set the expectation. They just randomly end the lane and start a new one where they can.

Roby!

So when I commute I am real and when I train and race I am imaginary? So if I were to talk about my experiences of being hit by cars twice - once while I was commuting and once while I was training, the commuting one is the only one that counts here? Weird!

Exactly. This morning when I rode to work, I was real. At lunch, when I went out to do intervals, I was not. This evening, when I ride home, I will be real again. It's like a bizarro Velveteen Rabbit.

Anywho, I agree with Steely Dan. Sprawlville always feels sketchier than downtown.

So true. Our bikes lines are an afterthought. They paint lines here and there but rarely complete an entire road.

The dutch have the right attitude...as long as what you are doing does not harm someone else its at your own risk.

Motorists do not generally hit cyclists because they are upset that the cyclist violated a minor traffic statute. Motorists tend to hit cyclists because they were yapping, diddling, fiddling, masticating, or gulping.

PS: PDX and Frankfurt have similar cycling mode share.

I agree with those who say higher speed roads with no shoulder or bike lane. Basically, roads that are designed with only cars in mind. I currently live in Taiwan, but lived in the Houston area most of my life. Here, everyone expects bicycles to be part of the mix on the road and generally speaking, roads in the city have lower average MPH than in the US. In Houston, many roads have no shoulders and posted speeds of 40-50 MPH. Much scarier when when people drive faster, have no patience, and insist on squeezing by where there's no room.

Don't get your Spandex(R) in a wad.

I too sometimes costume up and ride my Cinelli Supercorsa dripping with Campy for fun. It ain't the same thing as utility cycling in the "real" world. When I ride for a workout or pleasure, I pick the time, I pick the place, I pick the day of the week, I pick the smoothest roads, I pick the path, I pick the weather conditions, or I pick the stationary trainer indoors, or I choose not to ride that day at all. Time is rarely a factor during my pleasure ride. I am in total control of my time and my environment. These are situations I am not interested in for THIS particular Poll. Yes, now and then other road users affect me negatively in the park, but much less than during my forced march commutes.

"Real" cyclists are committed to the bicycle no matter what. We must get to work, drop the kids at school, get groceries, visit doctors, the post office etc., on the bike regardless of how we feel that day, often on roads not of our choosing, and in weather that sucks. We have a time commitment. "Real" cyclists don't want to leave home a freaking hour early to avoid the rush hour, take safer roads, or appeal to the tender sensibilities of every motorist along the way. We just want to arrive alive. Often our bikes are tools, not toys. We don't necessarily commute for enjoyment. Honestly, I don't even consider myself a cyclist at all. I just ride my bike to work and everywhere else because I don't want to own, maintain, insure, protect, park, and gas up an automobile for the privilege of doubling my commute time by sitting in line behind a bunch of cars watching the same traffic signals go red/green three times before I can get past the confounded things.

So my interpretation of "Real" cyclists still stands. Sorry the word "Real" has other meanings for you. None of the real cyclists here seem to be complaining about my nomenclature. I simply want input from a certain group of cyclists MOST of whom visit the Commuting Forum regularly. I think the comments here have been quite educational and on topic so far within that demographic. "Real" cyclists, as defined by me for THIS poll, seem to know who they are.

Iz dat right? I'm complaining about the use of that term due to the derogatory baggage attached to its use by some elitist and/or self righteous types.
Tell me how I don't make the grade as a Joey Brand Real Cyclist.

+1

OK. I'll try again.

Imagine a Bushman in Africa a hundred years ago living a true hunter/gatherer lifestyle. He has a small bow with small arrows (more like darts) with poisoned shafts. His life literally depends on this tool. His bow is not a toy. This fellow must have a certain level of skill with patience, tracking, stalking, and shooting his bow with accuracy. If he fails, he dies. His bow is his life.

Now imagine a modern day fellow up in a tree in a deer stand with an expensive compound bow and aerospace technology arrows, LED sights, computer generated camo clothing, and scent masking compounds on his body. He is well practiced in the art of hunting and shooting his weapon accurately. What happens if this fellow strikes out all season and kills nothing? He climbs down from his perch and into his Tundra/F250/RAM and drives to the nearest steakhouse. Is he gonna starve if he fails to bring home meat with his bow? Hardly.

Who is the "Real" archer here as defined in this thread? In a forum poll, who's advice would I seek if my goal was to live off the land?

That's what I'm talking about. Just substitute a bikes for bows. Get it now?

Making left at an intersection doesn't worry me as much as people making left opposing on straightaways. The other day I had one come within 4 ft of my front end almost head on in a sudden left only to stop in my path because there was a blocked sidewalk. I had 25 watts of forward lights and was going at speed limit in-lane. Her passenger was the most scared of all...

My bicycle is my main source of transportation, and I appreciate being called "real" - but I think that doesn't make other cyclists not real. As a matter of fact, I would (almost) argue the opposite. I have to ride to the grocery, the post office, the library etc. However, there are roadies in my town and on these boards that voluntarily train and dream and work and make the investment (both financially and emotionally) and ride their hearts out. I'm very much impressed by that kind of dedication. Perhaps the term "real" should not have been used - Commuters are no more real than roadies are no more real than mountain bikers are no more real than fixie hipsters are no more real than bmxers are no more real than touring riders are no more real than cargo bikers etc etc. Maybe the thread should have been addressed to commuters or utilitarian/urban riders without using the semantic "real".