Considering MTB for Commute - Pros/Cons
01-15-13, 10:39 AM
#26
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Funny, I actually disagree with everything except your points about the suspension and knobby tires.
Weight - Add a rack, panniers/bag, lock, lights, fenders, etc to a bike, and the original weight of the bike isn't a big deal anymore.
Tires - There is little time difference between my road bike (700x23), MTB with 1.25" slicks, and MTB with 2.15" Schwalbe Big Apple slicks. For my every day 35 mile round trip commute, you can pry my Big Apples from my cold, dead hands. They feel a bit heavier when accelerating from a stop, but that's about it. The comfort advantage of getting to run them at 30psi and having them absorb crappy road surfaces is well worth it. Agree on getting rid of knobby tires though, slicks are the way to go.
Lighter wheels - No thanks, I'll take durable over lightweight. My road and tri bikes have light wheels, but they also don't need to go up and down curbs, hit potholes, and do whatever else I need on my commute.
Disc brakes - Not that much heavier than conventional brakes, and superior performance when it's wet or snowy out. I'd opt for a nice set of cable-actuated discs over hydraulic ones though, for ease of maintenance.
Drop bars - Personal preference. I have plenty of hand positions on my flat MTB bar with stubby bar ends. Ergon grips help here.
Overbuilt MTB frame - Overbuilt = durable. Q-factor? Again, why bother talking aerodynamics on a commuter, any gain you get from a narrower Q-factor goes right out the window once you start adding commuting bits like racks and fenders.
Weight - Add a rack, panniers/bag, lock, lights, fenders, etc to a bike, and the original weight of the bike isn't a big deal anymore.
Tires - There is little time difference between my road bike (700x23), MTB with 1.25" slicks, and MTB with 2.15" Schwalbe Big Apple slicks. For my every day 35 mile round trip commute, you can pry my Big Apples from my cold, dead hands. They feel a bit heavier when accelerating from a stop, but that's about it. The comfort advantage of getting to run them at 30psi and having them absorb crappy road surfaces is well worth it. Agree on getting rid of knobby tires though, slicks are the way to go.
Lighter wheels - No thanks, I'll take durable over lightweight. My road and tri bikes have light wheels, but they also don't need to go up and down curbs, hit potholes, and do whatever else I need on my commute.
Disc brakes - Not that much heavier than conventional brakes, and superior performance when it's wet or snowy out. I'd opt for a nice set of cable-actuated discs over hydraulic ones though, for ease of maintenance.
Drop bars - Personal preference. I have plenty of hand positions on my flat MTB bar with stubby bar ends. Ergon grips help here.
Overbuilt MTB frame - Overbuilt = durable. Q-factor? Again, why bother talking aerodynamics on a commuter, any gain you get from a narrower Q-factor goes right out the window once you start adding commuting bits like racks and fenders.
Weight: Mountain bikes...even the lightest ones...are overbuilt. You can start with a lightweight one and add a rack, bags, lights and fenders (only when you need them) and still keep the weight of the bike down to a reasonable level. You don't need to carry as much stuff as many people think you have to. Leave some of the stuff at work and carry only what you need to dress for work.
Lighter wheels: There is no correlation between a lightweight wheelset and durability...at least in mountain bikes. I run Mavic XC717 rims with DT Alpine III spokes and XTR hubs. These are my off-road wheels and I jump them. They are extremely lightweight and durable and, since they are capable of handling off-road conditions, they'll handle anything a street has to offer.
Tires: It depends on what you want to do. Slicks and snow? Not a great combination. Slicks and ice? A really bad combination. Having knobbies opens up the world to make commuting less of a chore and more of a joy.
Disc brakes: I wouldn't call their performance 'superior'. Marginally better in rain and snow but not superior. (Yes, I have disc equipped bikes.) In rain and snow, you are limited not by the braking power but by the grip on the ground. It doesn't improve over dry pavement so having brakes that stop the wheel 'better' doesn't have much effect when stopping the wheel probably isn't a good idea. I've ridden snow, ice and rain with both types of brakes and never found that rim brakes were all that bad. You just have to adjust to the conditions but you have to adjust to the conditions even with discs.
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Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
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Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
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Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
01-15-13, 10:42 AM
#27
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01-15-13, 10:46 AM
#28
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Funny, I actually disagree with everything except your points about the suspension and knobby tires.
Weight - Add a rack, panniers/bag, lock, lights, fenders, etc to a bike, and the original weight of the bike isn't a big deal anymore.
Tires - There is little time difference between my road bike (700x23), MTB with 1.25" slicks, and MTB with 2.15" Schwalbe Big Apple slicks. For my every day 35 mile round trip commute, you can pry my Big Apples from my cold, dead hands. They feel a bit heavier when accelerating from a stop, but that's about it. The comfort advantage of getting to run them at 30psi and having them absorb crappy road surfaces is well worth it. Agree on getting rid of knobby tires though, slicks are the way to go.
Lighter wheels - No thanks, I'll take durable over lightweight. My road and tri bikes have light wheels, but they also don't need to go up and down curbs, hit potholes, and do whatever else I need on my commute.
Disc brakes - Not that much heavier than conventional brakes, and superior performance when it's wet or snowy out. I'd opt for a nice set of cable-actuated discs over hydraulic ones though, for ease of maintenance.
Drop bars - Personal preference. I have plenty of hand positions on my flat MTB bar with stubby bar ends. Ergon grips help here.
Overbuilt MTB frame - Overbuilt = durable. Q-factor? Again, why bother talking aerodynamics on a commuter, any gain you get from a narrower Q-factor goes right out the window once you start adding commuting bits like racks and fenders.
Weight - Add a rack, panniers/bag, lock, lights, fenders, etc to a bike, and the original weight of the bike isn't a big deal anymore.
Tires - There is little time difference between my road bike (700x23), MTB with 1.25" slicks, and MTB with 2.15" Schwalbe Big Apple slicks. For my every day 35 mile round trip commute, you can pry my Big Apples from my cold, dead hands. They feel a bit heavier when accelerating from a stop, but that's about it. The comfort advantage of getting to run them at 30psi and having them absorb crappy road surfaces is well worth it. Agree on getting rid of knobby tires though, slicks are the way to go.
Lighter wheels - No thanks, I'll take durable over lightweight. My road and tri bikes have light wheels, but they also don't need to go up and down curbs, hit potholes, and do whatever else I need on my commute.
Disc brakes - Not that much heavier than conventional brakes, and superior performance when it's wet or snowy out. I'd opt for a nice set of cable-actuated discs over hydraulic ones though, for ease of maintenance.
Drop bars - Personal preference. I have plenty of hand positions on my flat MTB bar with stubby bar ends. Ergon grips help here.
Overbuilt MTB frame - Overbuilt = durable. Q-factor? Again, why bother talking aerodynamics on a commuter, any gain you get from a narrower Q-factor goes right out the window once you start adding commuting bits like racks and fenders.
Funny, I actually agree with just about everything you said.
01-15-13, 11:09 AM
#29
Banned
My turn to disagree with nearly everything you've said.
Weight: Mountain bikes...even the lightest ones...are overbuilt. You can start with a lightweight one and add a rack, bags, lights and fenders (only when you need them) and still keep the weight of the bike down to a reasonable level. You don't need to carry as much stuff as many people think you have to. Leave some of the stuff at work and carry only what you need to dress for work.
Lighter wheels: There is no correlation between a lightweight wheelset and durability...at least in mountain bikes. I run Mavic XC717 rims with DT Alpine III spokes and XTR hubs. These are my off-road wheels and I jump them. They are extremely lightweight and durable and, since they are capable of handling off-road conditions, they'll handle anything a street has to offer.
Tires: It depends on what you want to do. Slicks and snow? Not a great combination. Slicks and ice? A really bad combination. Having knobbies opens up the world to make commuting less of a chore and more of a joy.
Disc brakes: I wouldn't call their performance 'superior'. Marginally better in rain and snow but not superior. (Yes, I have disc equipped bikes.) In rain and snow, you are limited not by the braking power but by the grip on the ground. It doesn't improve over dry pavement so having brakes that stop the wheel 'better' doesn't have much effect when stopping the wheel probably isn't a good idea. I've ridden snow, ice and rain with both types of brakes and never found that rim brakes were all that bad. You just have to adjust to the conditions but you have to adjust to the conditions even with discs.
Weight: Mountain bikes...even the lightest ones...are overbuilt. You can start with a lightweight one and add a rack, bags, lights and fenders (only when you need them) and still keep the weight of the bike down to a reasonable level. You don't need to carry as much stuff as many people think you have to. Leave some of the stuff at work and carry only what you need to dress for work.
Lighter wheels: There is no correlation between a lightweight wheelset and durability...at least in mountain bikes. I run Mavic XC717 rims with DT Alpine III spokes and XTR hubs. These are my off-road wheels and I jump them. They are extremely lightweight and durable and, since they are capable of handling off-road conditions, they'll handle anything a street has to offer.
Tires: It depends on what you want to do. Slicks and snow? Not a great combination. Slicks and ice? A really bad combination. Having knobbies opens up the world to make commuting less of a chore and more of a joy.
Disc brakes: I wouldn't call their performance 'superior'. Marginally better in rain and snow but not superior. (Yes, I have disc equipped bikes.) In rain and snow, you are limited not by the braking power but by the grip on the ground. It doesn't improve over dry pavement so having brakes that stop the wheel 'better' doesn't have much effect when stopping the wheel probably isn't a good idea. I've ridden snow, ice and rain with both types of brakes and never found that rim brakes were all that bad. You just have to adjust to the conditions but you have to adjust to the conditions even with discs.
01-15-13, 11:24 AM
#30
Banned
most entry level MTBs should have lock-out forks (even the €400 ones here do.)
parts list ... from the Asian factories that make the bikes, for the Importers brand.
01-15-13, 06:00 PM
#31
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Further, 10,000 km is a very long distance. When rotating through 7 different bikes, it's several years of use before replacement.
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Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
01-16-13, 12:49 AM
#32
Banned
I've only worn through the walls of a couple of rims in 30+ years of riding. That's road riding, mountain biking, winter biking, commuting and touring. And I live in a mountainous state. And it's about 20 years before the wide spread advent of 'discs' that are so prevalent now. I know how to use my brakes and how to preserve my rims. But I'm also not too concerned about rim wear because I view rims as a consumable.
Further, 10,000 km is a very long distance. When rotating through 7 different bikes, it's several years of use before replacement.
Further, 10,000 km is a very long distance. When rotating through 7 different bikes, it's several years of use before replacement.
01-16-13, 01:04 AM
#33
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I disagree about big 2+'' MTB tires not affecting arrival times/speed. Since I switched from Kenda 2.35'' to 1.5'' not only do I feel faster, I am faster. I gained an average speed increase of 1.2 mph by moving to Schwalbe Greedguards. Bigger tires require more energy to get them going. Yes that is a hardly significant number, however the bigger issue is the perceived speed boost, and even more importantly the smaller tires require less effort to keep the bike going I think. With bigger tires I feel the drag (high rolling resistance?) and so don't feel much motivation to push the bike any harder than required.
That said, my MTB works beautifully as a commuter. I'm using a rear rack + panniers with no heel strike.
That said, my MTB works beautifully as a commuter. I'm using a rear rack + panniers with no heel strike.
Last edited by agent pombero; 01-16-13 at 01:11 AM.
01-16-13, 07:59 AM
#34
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Let's talk actual rides not just distance. 10,000 km at 30 to 40 km per day is 330 to 250 rides. I commute, on average, 50% of the work year by bicycle and travel 33 km (20 miles) per day. There are 260 work days in a year so at 130 rides 10,000 km would work out to 2.3 years of use and, since I use 4 bikes most of the time in fairly regular proportions, you can multiply that by 4. So that is, at the minimum, 9 years of use out of a set of wheels for me. I'm not terribly concerned about my 'expensive' wheels with rim brakes.
My current set of wheels on my main road commuter bike have around 11,000 miles on them and aren't showing any signs of needing replacement and my wheels on my main mountain bike commuter...those are the Mavic XC717... have around 9000 miles on them and aren't showing significant brake track wear either. I expect both to last me at least double the current mileage.
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Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
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Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Last edited by cyccommute; 01-16-13 at 09:00 AM.
01-16-13, 10:13 AM
#35
Banned
Lots of 'reasonable' people I know have multiple bikes. Maybe not 7 but more than one.
Let's talk actual rides not just distance. 10,000 km at 30 to 40 km per day is 330 to 250 rides. I commute, on average, 50% of the work year by bicycle and travel 33 km (20 miles) per day. There are 260 work days in a year so at 130 rides 10,000 km would work out to 2.3 years of use and, since I use 4 bikes most of the time in fairly regular proportions, you can multiply that by 4. So that is, at the minimum, 9 years of use out of a set of wheels for me. I'm not terribly concerned about my 'expensive' wheels with rim brakes.
My current set of wheels on my main road commuter bike have around 11,000 miles on them and aren't showing any signs of needing replacement and my wheels on my main mountain bike commuter...those are the Mavic XC717... have around 9000 miles on them and aren't showing significant brake track wear either. I expect both to last me at least double the current mileage.
Let's talk actual rides not just distance. 10,000 km at 30 to 40 km per day is 330 to 250 rides. I commute, on average, 50% of the work year by bicycle and travel 33 km (20 miles) per day. There are 260 work days in a year so at 130 rides 10,000 km would work out to 2.3 years of use and, since I use 4 bikes most of the time in fairly regular proportions, you can multiply that by 4. So that is, at the minimum, 9 years of use out of a set of wheels for me. I'm not terribly concerned about my 'expensive' wheels with rim brakes.
My current set of wheels on my main road commuter bike have around 11,000 miles on them and aren't showing any signs of needing replacement and my wheels on my main mountain bike commuter...those are the Mavic XC717... have around 9000 miles on them and aren't showing significant brake track wear either. I expect both to last me at least double the current mileage.
I guess your commute is quite easy, not stop/go in the mountains.
Most Germans I ride with would rather have one great bike (€2-4k) than 4 OK (€500-€1k) bikes, maybe you guys are different.
01-16-13, 11:19 AM
#36
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I would save for something better with drop bars. Realistically you have 7-8 months before your cross bike needs to be turned over.
01-16-13, 11:33 AM
#37
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I would get that one, its a good deal and will make you a fine commuter. I commute on a hardtail 26in with suspension fork, slick street tires, and I built it all up myself with all the comforts of home to my liking. I do not have any bounce at all on the front suspension and 26in wheels are great in traffic where you need to accelerate quickly at the green lights. The 29er or 700c is larger in diameter and will accelerate slow and doggy on a MTB. Ok on road bikes though. The lower gearing will be nice for the hills and expect to go somewhat slower overall but the ride will be more enjoyable and the upright position will afford you to see better around you and also be safer. Just remember to not be in a hurry and allow yourself the time to get to your destination because you do work harder on a MTB in comparison to a lightweight road bike.
01-16-13, 11:41 AM
#38
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My commute is a fairly average urban/suburban commute with around 500 feet of elevation gain on either route I take to work. The bulk of that elevation gain...around 450 feet...occurs on the last 4 miles in and, more importantly, the first 4 miles of downhill on the way back home. I can easily hit 35 to 40 mph on the first half mile of the return and keep up around 30 mph on the next 2 miles. That's a good drop in my book. We have better ones around here...50 mph isn't that hard to hit...but a 30 mph downhill is respectable.
Finally, again you assume too much on the cost of my bicycles. I've reached an age where I don't ride crap bikes any more. I've reach an age where I don't ride mediocre bikes any more. I won't repost my bikes...you can find various pictures of them in the Forums...but let's just say that this is my beater bike
and the only reason it has discs is because Fox doesn't make a fork for rim brakes any more.
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Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
01-18-13, 12:28 AM
#39
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I will say this: For riding around town, commuting, or even certain tours -- I prefer my 1990 Novara XR that I built up for less than $300 over my $4k+ carbon BH RX1. Yes, there is a top speed difference but frankly I'm not riding at full tilt around town. Plus, the speed difference once you get going isn't that substantial. I'd way rather take the comfort of the Novara over the speed of the BH. Hell, I'd rather be riding my bike for longer than arriving to wherever it is I'm going a few minutes sooner. Get a mountain bike, put 1.5-2.0 slick tires on it and enjoy.
Much prefer this:
Over this:
Much prefer this:
Over this:
Last edited by TheSergeant; 01-18-13 at 01:58 AM.
01-18-13, 04:38 AM
#40
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01-18-13, 05:00 AM
#41
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I just did a quick count in my head and I have 5 bikes I actually ride. Just like Cycco, none of my bikes are really mediocre except maybe my Trek 7000 that I bought used on eBay for $150.
Rim wear? I never gave it a thought.
Weight? With my boat anchor laptop or my Kryptonite NY Fahgeddaboudit U-lock, it doesn't matter if I start at 20 or 25 pounds, I'm way over that. Include that extra 20 pounds around my middle...
But for commuting I'll just say that I see a whopping 5 minute difference in a 10 mile commute between my Trek 7000 fixed fork MTB w/ slicks and my Kuota Kredo carbon road bike with 700x23 GP4000 tires. That 10 mile commute takes me an hour, give or take a few minutes, and it is all about the traffic lights.
All said though, on weekends for rides, even in the park, I go carbon almost every time. There's something about the feel of a 16 pound road bike with 1450 gram lightweight wheels and tires pumped to 120 psi. I'll ride my Trek all week and get on my Kuota on the weekend and remember why I bought it.
Rim wear? I never gave it a thought.
Weight? With my boat anchor laptop or my Kryptonite NY Fahgeddaboudit U-lock, it doesn't matter if I start at 20 or 25 pounds, I'm way over that. Include that extra 20 pounds around my middle...
But for commuting I'll just say that I see a whopping 5 minute difference in a 10 mile commute between my Trek 7000 fixed fork MTB w/ slicks and my Kuota Kredo carbon road bike with 700x23 GP4000 tires. That 10 mile commute takes me an hour, give or take a few minutes, and it is all about the traffic lights.
All said though, on weekends for rides, even in the park, I go carbon almost every time. There's something about the feel of a 16 pound road bike with 1450 gram lightweight wheels and tires pumped to 120 psi. I'll ride my Trek all week and get on my Kuota on the weekend and remember why I bought it.
01-18-13, 05:20 AM
#42
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All said though, on weekends for rides, even in the park, I go carbon almost every time. There's something about the feel of a 16 pound road bike with 1450 gram lightweight wheels and tires pumped to 120 psi. I'll ride my Trek all week and get on my Kuota on the weekend and remember why I bought it.
01-19-13, 05:08 AM
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01-19-13, 05:10 AM
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01-19-13, 05:12 AM
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Originally Posted by cyccommute;15163460 I've reach an age where I don't ride mediocre bikes any more. I won't repost my bikes...you can find various pictures of them in the Forums...but let's just say that this is my beater bike[IMG
https://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r181/cyccommute/Bikeforum%20pictures/IMG_0765.jpg[/IMG]and the only reason it has discs is because Fox doesn't make a fork for rim brakes any more.
01-19-13, 05:17 AM
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One can only purchase complete bikes? What of build kits that don't include wheels? I just picked up a Kona mtb, and the wheels need to go; in this instance the price of a new set of wheels does not come with the package.
01-19-13, 05:22 AM
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The question was what reasonable family person owns 7 bikes to him/herself, not just more than one, which implies less than 7. 7 is indeed on the unreasonable side for someone with a family, bike mechanics notwithstanding. I've known some multimillionaires in both OC and Santa Barbara who were all really into the outdoor scene, yet the cyclist enthusiast of the family didn't own more than 3 bicycles to himself. I think I've seen an episode of Hoarders where someone had 7 bikes.
01-19-13, 05:35 AM
#48
Banned
The question was what reasonable family person owns 7 bikes to him/herself, not just more than one, which implies less than 7. 7 is indeed on the unreasonable side for someone with a family, bike mechanics notwithstanding. I've known some multimillionaires in both OC and Santa Barbara who were all really into the outdoor scene, yet the cyclist enthusiast of the family didn't own more than 3 bicycles to himself. I think I've seen an episode of Hoarders where someone had 7 bikes.
01-19-13, 10:21 AM
#49
Mad bike riding scientist
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denver, CO
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Bikes: Some silver ones, a red one, a black and orange one, and a few titanium ones
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It just strikes me as a lot of infrastructure overhead (land/storage structure/heat/electricity/water). Perhaps in the countryside or maybe a suburban area, but not in an urban area unless the owner is somewhat wealthy. Denver is relatively inexpensive though, so maybe it's not such a big deal?
As for jfowler85's post, I personally know many very reasonable people who own more than 7 bikes. There are lots and lots of people on the Forums who own many more than my 7. I've even pared down my fleet in the past to my current number. It's my money. I can do with it what I damn well please. And neither you nor that jerk have any say in the matter. Period.
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Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
01-19-13, 10:25 AM
#50
Banned
As for jfowler85's post, I personally know many very reasonable people who own more than 7 bikes. There are lots and lots of people on the Forums who own many more than my 7. I've even pared down my fleet in the past to my current number. It's my money. I can do with it what I damn well please. And neither you nor that jerk have any say in the matter. Period.
