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Am I overly sensitive or is this too close?

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Old 05-02-13 | 09:45 AM
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Wind Shear (like a bow wake) didn't push you off line..
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Old 05-02-13 | 10:57 AM
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Take and hold more of the lane, particularly on this road. Right tire track, at minimum. Better left of RTT. Will force them to pass around you and gives you leeway to move right, as needed.

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Old 05-02-13 | 11:00 AM
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It's pretty close, but not dangerously so. Since the shoulder there is really narrow, I'd ride a foot to the left of it. You may get some honks, but it will force cars to give you more space.
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Old 05-02-13 | 11:14 AM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by tjspiel
Taking the lane doesn't mean pulling out into the lane, it means riding in the lane the whole time as opposed to all the way to the right.

Further taking the lane doesn't usually mean the middle of the lane, more like where the right tire of a car would be. The idea is that you're more visible and that they can't pass you without moving into the other lane so they might as well give you plenty of room. If you're all the way to the right, they'll be tempted to squeeze by you even if there's oncoming traffic.
i think that this would help a majority of the problems.. along with a mirror to see if you need to do some off road riding to save your life.

that or find another route avoiding this section of road. I would NOT ride on the right side of the white line. You are a vehicle take more of the lane to protect yourself and other cars from being dumb.
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Old 05-02-13 | 11:39 AM
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A cyclist has ZERO obligation to give cars more room in the lane. Zilch. None. Doing so only gives the motorists the feeling of having power over you as the cyclist.

I personally would NEVER ride on that shoulder, even when it's 3 feet wide. For one reason the shoulder is full of debris, and second because it's just not wide enough, really, and also varies in width as we saw in the video. When I was riding the white line on 2-lane roads in my area, I would get buzzed every now and then. Since I started getting out in the right tire track or even closer to the middle of the lane, NO BUZZES whatsoever. I have also started wearing super-bright high-vis orange or yellow bike jerseys, in addition to my flashing lights, which I think helps.

Here's a really good graphic from Cycling Savvy aka I Am Traffic.org illustrating the best lane positioning:



Also this video I posted last week here in this forum really shows why lane positioning AND high-vis clothing help cars give you the space you deserve as a user of the road:

https://vimeo.com/album/1881848/video/17300276 Notice the camera vantage point from the car following far behind the cyclist in the video. Notice how much earlier he is visible to cars farther back when he rides out in the lane instead of hugging the curb.
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Old 05-02-13 | 12:03 PM
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Great vid.
Thanks for posting, Patrick.
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Old 05-02-13 | 12:07 PM
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Yeah I think that vid really drove it home for me and got me to start taking the lane more and more. Have had great results since then. It's even better on roads with 4 or more lanes where there's always a lane there available for cars to pass. There's really no excuse NOT to take the lane on those types of roads.
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Old 05-02-13 | 01:17 PM
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Meh, not too bad. I have a couple of those a week. Most people give more room than that, but those don't bother me that much.
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Old 05-02-13 | 01:45 PM
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I have to ask - why am I seeing so many videos of bicycle commuting online? Are people recording their rides "just in case" something happens? I commute by car, and don't record my drives - so I'm curious.
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Old 05-02-13 | 02:33 PM
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I record for a few reasons:

1. Just in case something happens I may have a record of it
2. To learn from my mistakes

I have a 40-50 min ride each way and there are times where I recall doing something wrong but don't have the time to analyze it on the bike. Being able to watch it later helps me do that.

The reason I think less people in cars do this is because the buffer between accident and death is very high in a car so there's little value in recording the event. However on a bike, that buffer is almost nil in many situations.

To support this, consider how many people in Russia have dash cams. They don't do it to learn from their mistakes, they do it to protect themselves from insurance fraud scams and general crime because it's such a significant problem there. Their buffer between themselves and something terrible happening to them while they are driving is similar to the buffer that cyclists often times feel exists between us and the other drivers on the road.
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Old 05-02-13 | 03:18 PM
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Just FYI on the "Bikes can use the full lane" laws in all 50 states, the same vehicle codes also provide guidelines on "Obstruction of traffic." Clearly cyclists who are moving at 1/3rd the posted limit and taking a full lane are obstructing traffic. In many states, the right lane on a multi-lane road with 2 or more lanes in any direction exempts the slow lane from Obstruction laws. But it doesn't change the moral obligation of cyclists to -keep-up- with traffic and not obstruct it. If you think you own the lane, don't be a dog in the manger and block it for all vehicles, including the cyclist that's wanted to pass up the Fred ahead of him. Ownership comes with responsibilities...
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Old 05-02-13 | 03:40 PM
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My state's traffic code contains nothing about "obstruction of traffic" with regards to minimum speeds. It makes mention of minimum speed limits on interstate highways, which bicycles are not allowed on anyway. Otherwise minimum speeds apply to motor vehicles only.
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Old 05-02-13 | 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by PatrickGSR94
My state's traffic code contains nothing about "obstruction of traffic" with regards to minimum speeds. It makes mention of minimum speed limits on interstate highways, which bicycles are not allowed on anyway. Otherwise minimum speeds apply to motor vehicles only.
It may be that TN is different. But it's not always clearly stated in handbooks, but in the fine print of the vehicle code, bicycles are vehicles and most traffic laws apply. But I wouldn't be surprised if TN has rules about obstruction of traffic. If your state has rules about 5 or more vehicles following closely behind you requiring the lead vehicle to pull over when available to yield, then most likely, you have obstruction laws.

You can take the full lane. But be considerate of other vehicles. We share the road and if cyclists hog the roads and obstruct traffic, they can alienate drivers and enrage drivers who may act out on the rest of us.
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Old 05-02-13 | 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by gyozadude
Just FYI on the "Bikes can use the full lane" laws in all 50 states, the same vehicle codes also provide guidelines on "Obstruction of traffic." Clearly cyclists who are moving at 1/3rd the posted limit and taking a full lane are obstructing traffic. In many states, the right lane on a multi-lane road with 2 or more lanes in any direction exempts the slow lane from Obstruction laws. But it doesn't change the moral obligation of cyclists to -keep-up- with traffic and not obstruct it. If you think you own the lane, don't be a dog in the manger and block it for all vehicles, including the cyclist that's wanted to pass up the Fred ahead of him. Ownership comes with responsibilities...
Okay, now that might be the wildest thing I've heard in a while! How could I possibly have a "moral" obligation to do something I am physically incapable of doing? If I am riding in a lawful manner, then I have met all "moral" obligations on the road! I am quite certain of my responsibilities.
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Old 05-02-13 | 05:37 PM
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I agree, sometimes that's the only way to go and if someone needs to pass with caution...so why do people pull out across a double yellow when another car is coming at them or pass on a blind turn? Gotta be something immoral or, at least, ignorant going on.
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Old 05-02-13 | 06:31 PM
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i take the lane on the busy road i commute on (2 lanes each direction) so cars don't really have a problem going around me except in the evening when the traffic is heavier. i try to keep my speed up as best I can (wish my MTB had a lower gear).
but i also take the lane on the back country road with no shoulders, just ditches, it's still pretty heavily trafficked and its hilly so i tire out easily, so i often pull off at a driveway every so often to let the pile of cars behind me pass (assuming they didn't have a chance to go around me).
but i'm always at least in the right tire track, or the middle.
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Old 05-03-13 | 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by gyozadude
It may be that TN is different. But it's not always clearly stated in handbooks, but in the fine print of the vehicle code, bicycles are vehicles and most traffic laws apply. But I wouldn't be surprised if TN has rules about obstruction of traffic. If your state has rules about 5 or more vehicles following closely behind you requiring the lead vehicle to pull over when available to yield, then most likely, you have obstruction laws.

You can take the full lane. But be considerate of other vehicles. We share the road and if cyclists hog the roads and obstruct traffic, they can alienate drivers and enrage drivers who may act out on the rest of us.
My state is actually MS, but I'm originally from Memphis and had the driver handbook in TN when I was 16, and I do remember something in it about being considered a slow-moving vehicle if a certain number of cars are behind. I checked the state codes for both MS and TN on Lexis Nexis. MS has no such minimum speed laws except on interstate highways, that I can find. TN code 55-8-154 says: "No person shall drive a motor vehicle at such a slow speed as to impede the normal and reasonable movement of traffic, except when reduced speed is necessary for safe operation or in compliance with law." The way I read it, that provision does not apply to non-motorized vehicles like bicycles, horses and horse-drawn carriages and the like.

If I'm on a 2-lane road with no shoulders and ditches on both sides (which are many, many roads in my area, especially those between municipalities), huffing and puffing uphill at 10 mph, I will NOT be hugging the right side. I have done so in the past and ALWAYS got buzzed. Now I remain farther out in the lane. I may pull off at the top of the hill if I need to take a breather, but I will not get off in the ditch just so a few cars can pass me before I crest the hill. That's not safe for me, and I have no such obligation to do so.
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Old 05-03-13 | 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by PatrickGSR94
My state is actually MS, but I'm originally from Memphis and had the driver handbook in TN when I was 16, and I do remember something in it about being considered a slow-moving vehicle if a certain number of cars are behind. I checked the state codes for both MS and TN on Lexis Nexis. MS has no such minimum speed laws except on interstate highways, that I can find. TN code 55-8-154 says: "No person shall drive a motor vehicle at such a slow speed as to impede the normal and reasonable movement of traffic, except when reduced speed is necessary for safe operation or in compliance with law." The way I read it, that provision does not apply to non-motorized vehicles like bicycles, horses and horse-drawn carriages and the like.

If I'm on a 2-lane road with no shoulders and ditches on both sides (which are many, many roads in my area, especially those between municipalities), huffing and puffing uphill at 10 mph, I will NOT be hugging the right side. I have done so in the past and ALWAYS got buzzed. Now I remain farther out in the lane. I may pull off at the top of the hill if I need to take a breather, but I will not get off in the ditch just so a few cars can pass me before I crest the hill. That's not safe for me, and I have no such obligation to do so.
Hear ye, hear ye, hear ye.......

Indeed, agreed.
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Old 05-03-13 | 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by PatrickGSR94
My state's traffic code contains nothing about "obstruction of traffic" with regards to minimum speeds. It makes mention of minimum speed limits on interstate highways, which bicycles are not allowed on anyway. Otherwise minimum speeds apply to motor vehicles only.
Same in PA. I pored over the state vehicle code and the drivers' manual before I started commuting. Bikes should stay as far right "as practicable". If there is no shoulder on the road, or it is in bad condition, the rider has full authority to move left.
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Old 05-04-13 | 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by PatrickGSR94


The second photo works as mentioned most of the time, but there's a few that think: "Let's tailgate the arrogant SOB, give him a long loud honk and then buzz the mother****er as I pass him".
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Old 05-04-13 | 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by PatrickGSR94


The second photo works most of the time, but there's a few that think: "Let's tailgate the arrogant SOB, then buzz the mother****er as I pass him, because he had to force me to change lanes".
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