Surly Disc Trucker, 1000 Miles Later
05-24-13, 10:13 AM
#26
born again cyclist
then on a day when conditions might indicate that your LHT is the better horse for the course, appreciate what it can do that your fast bike can't.
05-24-13, 10:47 AM
#27
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My experiences with touring bikes mirror the OP. Heavy and harsh. Fine if you're loading them down with substantial weight, awful if you're not. Of course it can be no other way, physics and all.
05-24-13, 10:48 AM
#28
Senior Member
Lots of great replies here.
Yes, "hate" is a strong word and perhaps overstating it a bit, but the fact is that I don't get any joy out of riding the bike. I'm feeling particularly gripe-y these days because my fast commuter is broken, so I'm stuck riding the LHT.
It's a good bike, and on a level, I'm quite proud of it, since I built it up myself (even hand-built the wheels!), and as I stated earlier, it's exactly what I intended it to be...it's just not what I want.
I'm not ready to ditch the bike yet. At a minimum, I think I'll convert it to a derailleured bike, and since that means a new rear wheel, I'll build a new front wheel as well. The wheels are pretty heavy-duty (mountain bike rims), but going to a lighter rim will save me grams, not pounds. It's a 54cm frame designed for 26" wheels, but there's tons of clearance, and since it's disc brake equipped, I don't have to worry about brake mounts, so I might try larger wheels. 650B would definitely fit; I think I could maybe even go as big as 700C, but it might be tight - I still want fenders on this bike. Anyone have any experience putting non-26" wheels on a 26" LHT?
Yes, "hate" is a strong word and perhaps overstating it a bit, but the fact is that I don't get any joy out of riding the bike. I'm feeling particularly gripe-y these days because my fast commuter is broken, so I'm stuck riding the LHT.
It's a good bike, and on a level, I'm quite proud of it, since I built it up myself (even hand-built the wheels!), and as I stated earlier, it's exactly what I intended it to be...it's just not what I want.
I'm not ready to ditch the bike yet. At a minimum, I think I'll convert it to a derailleured bike, and since that means a new rear wheel, I'll build a new front wheel as well. The wheels are pretty heavy-duty (mountain bike rims), but going to a lighter rim will save me grams, not pounds. It's a 54cm frame designed for 26" wheels, but there's tons of clearance, and since it's disc brake equipped, I don't have to worry about brake mounts, so I might try larger wheels. 650B would definitely fit; I think I could maybe even go as big as 700C, but it might be tight - I still want fenders on this bike. Anyone have any experience putting non-26" wheels on a 26" LHT?
05-24-13, 11:49 AM
#30
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05-24-13, 12:28 PM
#31
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I, too, bought an LHT after an SUV broadsided my beloved beater commuter. That was 14 months and 4600 miles ago. I love mine.
I have a 21 lb. road bike and a 23 lb. vintage road bike, but I pull out the LHT even for most recreational rides. I like its stability and the smooth ride of the steel and the fat tires.
Yes, it's heavy, but I find myself continually hanging more weight on it -- as when I moved to even wider tires with puncture resistance this week.
It's geared well enough for quick acceleration when I need it and for the hills in this river town. I have stock cantilever brakes, which do a fine job for me. I did add Kool Stop pads when the originals wore down.
Both road bikes feel silly light to me after riding this big tank all week. The aluminum/carbon bike, the lightest, also feels harsh. The vintage steel is a smooth ride, but it feels like a delicate flower after the LHT. I would never commute daily on it.
I had a pretty hard crash in December and a few minor spills on the LHT, and it's been unfazed. That's also worth a lot to me in a commuting bike.
Just another perspective.
I have a 21 lb. road bike and a 23 lb. vintage road bike, but I pull out the LHT even for most recreational rides. I like its stability and the smooth ride of the steel and the fat tires.
Yes, it's heavy, but I find myself continually hanging more weight on it -- as when I moved to even wider tires with puncture resistance this week.
It's geared well enough for quick acceleration when I need it and for the hills in this river town. I have stock cantilever brakes, which do a fine job for me. I did add Kool Stop pads when the originals wore down.
Both road bikes feel silly light to me after riding this big tank all week. The aluminum/carbon bike, the lightest, also feels harsh. The vintage steel is a smooth ride, but it feels like a delicate flower after the LHT. I would never commute daily on it.
I had a pretty hard crash in December and a few minor spills on the LHT, and it's been unfazed. That's also worth a lot to me in a commuting bike.
Just another perspective.
05-24-13, 12:39 PM
#32
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05-24-13, 10:31 PM
#33
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I have a LHT and 3 other bikes (one Carbon RR, one enduro mountainbike and one so called fitness bike with 700cc Tires. With all of them i commute to work, depending what i do after work. Only my roadbike is significantly faster. I do not want to be a wise ass, but have you measured the "felt" slowness of the LHT? I found that it is practically non existent while commuting, well at least according to my GPS-Data.
in my case my commute is only 3,7 miles through town each way, with a lot of traffic lights. so my commuting data is not really significant on a statistical basis.
in my case my commute is only 3,7 miles through town each way, with a lot of traffic lights. so my commuting data is not really significant on a statistical basis.
Last edited by dude72; 05-25-13 at 09:54 AM.
05-25-13, 01:34 AM
#34
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After my beater bike was destroyed in a collision with a car, I took the opportunity to put together the Ultimate BF Commuter Approved (TM) commuter bike: Surly Disc Trucker frame, BB7 disc brakes, drop bars, Alfine IGH, 26" wheels, plenty of clearance for knobby, studded tires, fenders, rack, the whole works (pics and writeup here.)
One year and 1000 miles later...I hate it.
Actually, from the very first ride, I was pretty disappointed. My biggest gripe is the sheer weight of the thing. I've really come to love the feeling of a light bike, and this is anything but. I'm not even a weight-weenie (I don't own a carbon bike), but the Trucker feels like a tank. The weight doesn't make much difference on flat ground, but I feel it on the hills, and my overall perception is that the bike feels sluggish.
I've read many testimonials from people extolling the virtues of the LHT frameset, mainly how comfortable it is, but I don't find it any more comfortable than my other bikes. If anything, it seems to be worse on Edmonton's pothole-ridden streets. That said, I've never taken this bike on a really long ride - maybe over significant distances, I would notice a difference. (If an LHT really is a poor-man's Rivendell, I'm convinced that I would hate a Rivendell too.)
I'm also not thrilled with the IGH. There are some nice things about it - great for winter (not that I ride much in the winter), fast and reliable shifts, can shift while stopped - but the gear spacing is a bit awkward, and I often find myself wishing for gears in between the ones that are there. I don't seem to have the same problem with my derailleured bikes. I've had some annoying problems with skipping gears too. Of course, the IGH makes a significant contribution to the weight of the bike, another point against (for me).
The disc brakes are okay - great stopping power, and again, they work great in the winter. I wanted disc brakes because of problems I had with rim brakes in the winter, and they've delivered. They were a bit of pain to set up, and the pads need to be replaced already (I'm at the limits of the barrel adjusters), but I don't have any significant complaints.
I thought maybe having a rack would convert me to a pannier guy, but I found panniers just made a heavy bike heavier, and I found panniers horribly inconvenient to carry around off the bike, so I've reverted to a backpack. I probably look silly wearing a backpack with a perfectly good rack on the bike, but oh well.
Despite these complaints, I have no intention of getting rid of the bike. I have to admit that the bike is exactly what I intended it to be: a bike suitable for any riding conditions. But it will never be my go-to bike on a dry spring, summer, or fall day. Unfortunately, my fair-weather commuter bike (an old steel road bike) is temporarily out of commission, and I haven't had time to get it fixed. So I'm riding the Trucker every day, and liking it less all the time.
Still beats taking the bus.
One year and 1000 miles later...I hate it.
Actually, from the very first ride, I was pretty disappointed. My biggest gripe is the sheer weight of the thing. I've really come to love the feeling of a light bike, and this is anything but. I'm not even a weight-weenie (I don't own a carbon bike), but the Trucker feels like a tank. The weight doesn't make much difference on flat ground, but I feel it on the hills, and my overall perception is that the bike feels sluggish.
I've read many testimonials from people extolling the virtues of the LHT frameset, mainly how comfortable it is, but I don't find it any more comfortable than my other bikes. If anything, it seems to be worse on Edmonton's pothole-ridden streets. That said, I've never taken this bike on a really long ride - maybe over significant distances, I would notice a difference. (If an LHT really is a poor-man's Rivendell, I'm convinced that I would hate a Rivendell too.)
I'm also not thrilled with the IGH. There are some nice things about it - great for winter (not that I ride much in the winter), fast and reliable shifts, can shift while stopped - but the gear spacing is a bit awkward, and I often find myself wishing for gears in between the ones that are there. I don't seem to have the same problem with my derailleured bikes. I've had some annoying problems with skipping gears too. Of course, the IGH makes a significant contribution to the weight of the bike, another point against (for me).
The disc brakes are okay - great stopping power, and again, they work great in the winter. I wanted disc brakes because of problems I had with rim brakes in the winter, and they've delivered. They were a bit of pain to set up, and the pads need to be replaced already (I'm at the limits of the barrel adjusters), but I don't have any significant complaints.
I thought maybe having a rack would convert me to a pannier guy, but I found panniers just made a heavy bike heavier, and I found panniers horribly inconvenient to carry around off the bike, so I've reverted to a backpack. I probably look silly wearing a backpack with a perfectly good rack on the bike, but oh well.
Despite these complaints, I have no intention of getting rid of the bike. I have to admit that the bike is exactly what I intended it to be: a bike suitable for any riding conditions. But it will never be my go-to bike on a dry spring, summer, or fall day. Unfortunately, my fair-weather commuter bike (an old steel road bike) is temporarily out of commission, and I haven't had time to get it fixed. So I'm riding the Trucker every day, and liking it less all the time.
Still beats taking the bus.
05-25-13, 02:39 AM
#35
Bicycle Repair Man !!!
That Bianchi has spoiled you for lesser bicycles... we will have to expedite the rebuild of that rear wheel so you can exploit the good weather.
As for the LHT... it is a great bike (and your build was pretty awesome) but I can understand why you aren't madly in love with it. I also understand why it is also nice to have a bicycle that can handle any conditions we see here.
My Kuwahara Cascade will do everything an LHT will do, has a lighter quicker feel, and is a much more civilized bicycle when it is unloaded, for that reason I have never wanted an LHT which is really optimally designed for loaded touring... The Kuwie curbs out at 30 pounds with racks and fenders and I just built up new custom wheels which make it feel that much better.
Despite that I was pretty happy to be tearing it up on the fixed gear yesterday... it hits the curb at 20 pounds which is half the weight of my regular commuter bike and close to the weight of my road bicycles.
As for the LHT... it is a great bike (and your build was pretty awesome) but I can understand why you aren't madly in love with it. I also understand why it is also nice to have a bicycle that can handle any conditions we see here.
My Kuwahara Cascade will do everything an LHT will do, has a lighter quicker feel, and is a much more civilized bicycle when it is unloaded, for that reason I have never wanted an LHT which is really optimally designed for loaded touring... The Kuwie curbs out at 30 pounds with racks and fenders and I just built up new custom wheels which make it feel that much better.
Despite that I was pretty happy to be tearing it up on the fixed gear yesterday... it hits the curb at 20 pounds which is half the weight of my regular commuter bike and close to the weight of my road bicycles.
05-25-13, 02:45 AM
#36
Bicycle Repair Man !!!
It seems as if you failed to be honest with yourself about what you really wanted out of a bike. If you buy a bike with a heavy steel frame, an IGH, disc brakes, and a rack and panniers, it stands to reason that it's going to have performance issues, especially if you put knobby tires on it for good measure. It's not reasonable to build up the cycling equivalent of an old Volvo station wagon, and then be disappointed when it rides like one.
05-25-13, 05:15 AM
#37
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. It's a 54cm frame designed for 26" wheels, but there's tons of clearance, and since it's disc brake equipped, I don't have to worry about brake mounts, so I might try larger wheels. 650B would definitely fit; I think I could maybe even go as big as 700C, but it might be tight - I still want fenders on this bike. Anyone have any experience putting non-26" wheels on a 26" LHT?[/QUOTE]
Surly lists 700 wheels for 56 and larger frames. Sounds like the 54 cm frame might not accommodate larger wheels.
I split my commuting between a LHT and a Riv Rambouillet. Both have fenders, flaps, bar ends, dyno hubs, lights, reflectors, etc. I love the Riv for being light(er) and quicker handling and my trips are faster with less effort. But the LHT is perfect for throwing bags on the bag and carrying anything with no muss or fuss. My ultimate upright commuter.
Jon in Philly
Surly lists 700 wheels for 56 and larger frames. Sounds like the 54 cm frame might not accommodate larger wheels.
I split my commuting between a LHT and a Riv Rambouillet. Both have fenders, flaps, bar ends, dyno hubs, lights, reflectors, etc. I love the Riv for being light(er) and quicker handling and my trips are faster with less effort. But the LHT is perfect for throwing bags on the bag and carrying anything with no muss or fuss. My ultimate upright commuter.
Jon in Philly
05-25-13, 08:26 AM
#38
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Look at the bright side,how many rim brake pads would have needed to swap(and wait till you see how easy replacement is)? Would you also need a new chain/cassette if you were running a der setup? And I think you'll be glad you have the rack if you ever need to haul something heavy. Much better on the bike than on the back. As for carrying a pannier,maybe you'd like this. Saw one at REI awhile back,seems to be a good balance between on and off bike.
I would surmise you would be happier with a conventional drivetrain with a triple if you don't like the hills. Of course you cann feel free to send me your IGH if it will make you happy.
I am sure we all have had a love hate relationship with different bikes. We have some that are for a specific purpose, as you do, which perform well but have shortcomings.
I shall send you my address upon request for shipment of the IGH.
05-25-13, 10:22 AM
#39
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Thread Starter
I have a LHT and 3 other bikes (one Carbon RR, one enduro mountainbike and one so called fitness bike with 700cc Tires. With all of them i commute to work, depending what i do after work. Only my roadbike is significantly faster. I do not want to be a wise ass, but have you measured the "felt" slowness of the LHT? I found that it is practically non existent while commuting, well at least according to my GPS-Data.
in my case my commute is only 3,7 miles through town each way, with a lot of traffic lights. so my commuting data is not really significant on a statistical basis.
in my case my commute is only 3,7 miles through town each way, with a lot of traffic lights. so my commuting data is not really significant on a statistical basis.
The weight doesn't make much difference on flat ground, but I feel it on the hills, and my overall perception is that the bike feels sluggish.
05-25-13, 10:25 AM
#40
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05-25-13, 10:35 AM
#41
Senior Member
Thread Starter
05-25-13, 10:47 AM
#42
Senior Member
Thread Starter
My IGH still runs on a chain and steel cog, so they will need to be replaced as often as a derailleured bike, presumably.
05-25-13, 11:11 AM
#43
apocryphal sobriquet
I can answer those questions. I have more miles that that on my LHT and don't need a new chain and cassette, an my original CoolStops are still fine despite the hills here in Western Pennsylvania. I like my LHT and have no issues with the hills, and as stated, there are many here and they are steep, many over 15 percent grade and some near my house are around 20. I always have my Ortliebs on the back, usually filled with assorted junk including a cable lock, a big U-Lock with another cable, all contributing to a lot of extra weight. I got over the weight issue a long time ago having avoided riding anything lighter so I would not know what I was missing.
[SNIP]
[SNIP]
05-25-13, 12:37 PM
#44
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I had it in my mind that I wanted to try and shave time off my commute so I converted my LHT to lightweight 26" wheels, 25x1.75 Travel Contacts, compact double, 11-28 rear cassette, and Specialized Romin seat and it felt pretty quick. Steering was sluggish but acceleration and speed were great. It lasted all of about 2 days. With all my commuting gear, it really didn't make that big of a difference in time and I missed the comfort on bad roads. Quickly went back to the B17, Big Apples, and original gearing.
But I love the solid contact and good handling I feel on the trucker. And I'm not just barely getting by on cargo capacity. I can run errands on the way home without worry that I won't be able to carry a quart of apple juice. And the backpack is gone along with having my back drenched in sweat.
A few minutes of my ride is fine to sacrifice. After all, sometimes I artificially extend it anyway because it feels good. The quality of the ride I'm finding to be more important than the speed alone. The speed is not as different as my initial perceptions would indicate.
05-25-13, 02:52 PM
#45
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Not a commuter, 90% of my miles are done on a carbon fiber road bike for fitness. I had a Trek 7.5FX I used for running errands, local transport etc. but started to dislike the flat bars and sluggish feel of the bike. I sold the Trek and bought a Mercier Aquila AL from Bikes Direct. It's basically an endurance geometry road bike that will take a rack and (up to) 40mm tires. So far I'm really happy with it. The bike is fairly light (21-22lbs stock) and feels snappier than my 7.5FX. The Tiagra shifters are buttery smooth and you can't beat the performance of dual pivot brakes on a budget bike. I've already got the rack installed and have some 700x35 Vittoria Randonneur Hypers coming. The steerer was cut shorter than I would've liked (only 18mm of spacers showing) but that can be worked around with a riser stem. I'll admit it's not a pretty bike but for my intended use I don't really care about looks. Bikes Direct does have some better looking aluminum road frames but they won't accept larger tires.
Last edited by Dunbar; 05-25-13 at 02:57 PM.
05-25-13, 03:32 PM
#46
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You know, when I take the panniers off it straight up feels weird. Like my bike is too "squirrely", for lack of a better word. It does feel fast and light as hell though.
05-25-13, 05:14 PM
#47
Bicycle Repair Man !!!
...
Took my Kuwahara Shasta out today... it is also running some new wheels and put in on the shop scale which said it is 34 pounds (with pump and seat bag) and have loved this bike since day one and it just gets better and better.
05-25-13, 06:49 PM
#48
Senior Member
Not really sure what the complaint is. You bought a full blown touring bicycle, put a heavy set of brakes, and a heavy drive train on it, and now it's not snappy enough for you.
You didn't like panniers on it, cause it made it heavier? What did you expect? A moving van to drive like a sports car? That is not going to happen. You bought a truck. Not a vette!
The LHT is a tourer, not a sports tourer, not an all rounder, just a truck. lol, maybe that is why they named it a trucker. Since 65er spilled the beans and told that your other bike was a bit more sporty, maybe you think all bikes are spose to ride like that. They don't, a touring bike will seem slow and sluggish next to a racing bike. That's how they are made. LHT included!
Different tools for different jobs!
You didn't like panniers on it, cause it made it heavier? What did you expect? A moving van to drive like a sports car? That is not going to happen. You bought a truck. Not a vette!
The LHT is a tourer, not a sports tourer, not an all rounder, just a truck. lol, maybe that is why they named it a trucker. Since 65er spilled the beans and told that your other bike was a bit more sporty, maybe you think all bikes are spose to ride like that. They don't, a touring bike will seem slow and sluggish next to a racing bike. That's how they are made. LHT included!
Different tools for different jobs!
05-25-13, 07:36 PM
#49
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There are ways you can lighten up that LHT by choosing lighter components. I built my own all around bike also and started with a custom built super light weight 7005 alluminum mountain frame and a Surly troll rigid fork. I installed 1.5 in slicks and payed close attention to weight and comfort thoughout the buildup. I fully accessorized it again keeping weight in mind. Once it was all loaded up it tipped the scale at 32 lbs. It feels very nimble and fast although nothing in comparison to a CF road bike. I just love it and I'm very proud of this bike but it does get double looks everywhere I go. Maybe you can reduce the hate by rethinking what was used to build it up. The LHT is a nice frame that would make many happy.
05-26-13, 08:38 AM
#50
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Try Continental Contact tires. Run "just enough" air pressure in them. Also, try some sort of "alt" bar, Salsa Woodchipper, Soma Oxford, Nitto North Road, Wald #8095, etc. They are much wider and provide much more leverage for climbing.