I'm hoping to buy some large panniers soon for a grocery getter/someday touring bike. Right now I'm between Ortlieb rollers and Ironweed bags (Ironweed is produced local to me so that is a bonus).
A big plus to the Ortlieb bags are their large capacity, but can anyone tell me if their published volume includes the rolled portion of the bag? This is ambiguous to me so far but would make a big difference in my decision.

Don't know which model you're specifically looking at but this should answer your question:

https://ortlieb.com/_prod.php?lang=en...krollerclassic

Also don't forget that one can simply multiply the three dimensions in centimeters to arrive at cubic centimeters and thus liters which should most accurately address your question

Also, i'd buy local even if it was slightly smaller

For grocery getting you don;t have to roll them shut, you can fill them to the top and simply clip the strap. You can fit a lot in that way, I do it all the time.

This is what I'm still leaning towards I might have to ask the guy at my LBS what he thinks, as it's still not clear to me how Ortlieb measures their volume.

FWIW, just looking at the product page I linked to ... it states roughly 16" tall and 12" wide (or 1.33:1 ratio). that pretty well matches the photo on the product page with the top rolled down. the ratio in the above photo looks more like 1.5 or 1.66:1 with the tops unrolled. So, I would assume that it's the volume fully closed ... and that's what I'd demand to know as a German consumer.

Given all that, I'd still buy local.

edit: https://ortlieb.com/_pdf_en/backrollerclassic.pdf

With "tech specs" it looks like they measure it closed (as shown in the photo). Buy local.

the Ortlieb shopper is the same shape as the back roller , but the closure is a watertight zipper at the top so greater volume

like the not rolled but buckled the strap over the top, .. example.

https://ortlieb.com/_prod.php?lang=en...kt=bikeshopper

If you compare the volume of the Ortlieb Roller to other panniers of a similar volume without the roll top, it's clear that the volume is for a closed bag. Unrolled, the volume is about a third to a half again bigger. Unrolled, the bags are very long but most people won't use them that way because they aren't water proof.

I overfill my rollertops so even the top strap can't be closed. As long as you pack sensibly, it all stays in place.
My carradice Super C also have an extendable collar for over-loading in a similar, short-range fashion.

My biggest problem with the Ortliebs is that they generally do not include compartments for small items like a phone or a wallet. They're just big sacks, good for shopping, but not necessarily great for "credit card" touring.

The lack of pockets is exactly why I use them. I've had panniers with lots of pockets in the past and they were mostly useless. The pockets were usually too small or the wrong size to have much utility. I also long ago started packing my gear in plastic bags because old panniers were waterproof in theory only. Once I went to the Ortliebs, I just kept up the practice. My clothes are all packed in ziplock bags and placed in the Ortliebs in whatever manner I wish. Everything is easily accessible within the bag.

You can also get external pockets for the Ortiebs if you so wish. You could place them anywhere on the bag.

Not sure, but this pic will give you an idea of how full you can fill them and still shut them:

>>>>The lack of pockets is exactly why I use them.<<<<

That's why we've got a horse race -- uh, a bike race -- here. After buying and returning about half a dozen panniers I was unhappy with, I ended up with one of those trunk bags that expands into a half-assed pannier. Now I, too, pack my smaller gear into plastic pencil cases and drop them in the large compartment. It's not my ideal solution, but it'll do for now.

The roller classics have a small zippered mesh pocket inside. keeps small things (tools, keys, phone) from getting lost. There's a larger pocket behind it, but still small, as well. That's where I keep the pouch with my flat kit and multi tool, and where I stick my wallet and phone when it's raining and I don't want to get the rain gear out. I do like that big undivided volume, which makes it easy to carry anything that can be fit inside. I do need to empty them out from time to time, or things collect.

I have the Ortlieb Bike Packer Plus panniers (black). They hold 20 liters in each pannier. I know they will hold a lot as I have carried a gallon of milk in each one, a pineapple beside one of the gallons of milk, other groceries, etc, and their was room for more. I like how they fold down for small loads and expand on height for big loads. Mine have been water tight but I still pack my extra clothes, shoes, water, in plastic bags, it seems easier to separate things.

The bike packer plus model have a rolled outer pocket, I keep phone and any of the smaller things I may need quick acces to. They have da thin mesh pocket inside for papers, maybe a small iPad, I put my tools in there. I am very happy with these!

i'm planning on getting these from LL Bean to put on my bike for groceries/errands/around town
https://www.llbean.com/llb/shop/61867...niers&subrnd=0

(ignore the rack it was the only picture I could find that worked)

and you don't have to close them up either you can leave them open at the top

Those will be fine for grocery getting. I actually have a similar set for grocery runs I got for another bike before I had the Ortleibs. They don;t have the drawstring cover though. They work fine for groceries.

I have the Ortlieb Back-Roller Classics. They are very big, very durable and very waterproof. The only thing I do not like about them is that they are also very heavy at about 3 lbs each. I'm toying with the idea of starting to search for a lighter alternative, but I've not put any effort in to that yet. I really wish my laptop would fit in to my Revelate Designs Framebag or Viscaha Seatbag that I use for bikepacking. I would love to loose the weight of the panniers and rack but I'm not sure how else to carry my laptop without switching back to a backpack, which I will not do.

Actually the Roller Classics weigh in at 64.6 ounces a pair, that is 2.02 pounds each. The Roller Plus bags are slightly lighter at 54.7 ounces per pair or 1.71 pounds each.

The weight for me is irrelevant. I feel if I went with something light enough to make a difference they wouldn't be durable. I can't see even shaving a pound each off as making much difference on a bike meant for riding loaded.

For what it's worth, my experience with the quality and easy on/off feature of my Ortlieb backroller classics has been so good - that not only do I think they are worth every penny and then some, but I would go out of my way to look for other Ortlieb purchases whenever possible for any other bike products in the future. They really are that good.