Stop Signs, 2 Questions
#26
www.ocrebels.com
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From: Los Angeles area
Bikes: Several bikes, Road, Mountain, Commute, etc.
Rick / OCRR
#27
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From: Minnesota
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I think it's only Idaho currently, but if it's true that most cyclists are adopting the "Idaho Stop" it's only a matter of time. Objectively, it may in fact be safer by virtue of spending less time in the intersection.
I can and have argued the other side, that it's better to come to a full stop every time because pedestrians have a right to expect the stop, and with that expectation will confidently walk out in front of a rider without any warning signs. You can't always see them, and they may assume you're stopping. It is after all the law. But that argument fails if rolling stop (or Idaho stop) is common and expected. And, of course, an emergency stop from 5 mph or even 10 mph doesn't put the pedestrian in that much danger.
I can and have argued the other side, that it's better to come to a full stop every time because pedestrians have a right to expect the stop, and with that expectation will confidently walk out in front of a rider without any warning signs. You can't always see them, and they may assume you're stopping. It is after all the law. But that argument fails if rolling stop (or Idaho stop) is common and expected. And, of course, an emergency stop from 5 mph or even 10 mph doesn't put the pedestrian in that much danger.
I've been talking with some legislators on a slow burn/long time basis and there is interest in this. It's pretty common sense approach, and it's what is happening pretty much anyhow. Changing the law would therefore have little to no impact on accident rates - which are already pretty low.
I live in a rural suburb. In this sort of a circumstance, it *only* makes sense. There are no pedestrians to "pop" out from behind bushes or other objects. The only point of stop signs and traffic lights is traffic control not pedestrian access. So, I have to admit, I address lights and stop signs on my bike in a "common sense" approach. I'm not going to sit stopped at a light when there are no cars around, I'm going to proceed slowly and run the light. But, in no case, would I blast through the intersection.
J.
#28
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Joined: Jun 2013
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From: Ann Arbor, MI
Bikes: 1998 Nishiki Blazer, 2004 Trek 4500, 2014 Salsa Fargo 3
+1. I always stop at a red light, but what lanahk said above is spot on for me as well.
#29
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Joined: Jun 2013
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From: Chicagoland
Bikes: Diamondback Wildwood Classic, Trek FX 7.3
And consider this: what if you weren't a licensed motor vehicle driver? Let's say you were 14 years old. Let's say you had too many DUI/DWI offenses and had your license revoked for life. Let's say you lived in NYC and never had a need to get a licence ever. Let's say you couldn't qualify for a license for some medical reason. All these are valid reasons not to have a license.
Several of your other examples would probably fall under jaywalking laws or something, were anyone to actually be pulled for it.
*these generally don't carry a fine, but they are official tickets and if you get enough of them you get a real one, with a nice fine.
#30
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Joined: Jun 2009
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Of course, I always stop when I see a cop, that's elementary; I will stop for a red, and if traffic is nonexistent (nothing going to trip a signal), I will roll it from that stop. Stop signs, I usually treat as a yield, just like most drivers do. Also, if I'm in a dedicated turn lane, my bike alone won't flip the switch, so I'll roll it when the straight lanes go green, and just yield to oncoming.
Tickets? You have to just about ASSAULT someone with a fender to get a ticket, or be speeding 20+ over in town; the PD around here holds pretty tight to the "no blood no foul" philosophy. I think I've seen 2 cars pulled over this whole year so far.
Tickets? You have to just about ASSAULT someone with a fender to get a ticket, or be speeding 20+ over in town; the PD around here holds pretty tight to the "no blood no foul" philosophy. I think I've seen 2 cars pulled over this whole year so far.
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Biker395
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