That's actually a good question ... which I why I'm doing my BSO test. I think that £295 SS bike is fine for year-round commuting and my colleagues with CrossRips and better way overpaid. I must admit that I am a little slower with only one speed on both the downhill and the uphills.

Items that I use daily ... like a backpack I really like it high-quality ... for me a pannier wouldn't work and a 20L back-pack is perfect.

Typical day:

up at 5am.
on the bike at 7am to work with change of clothes, lunch, Retina MBP, wallet, passport, phone, headphones and sometimes an extra item.
jam bike into crowded locker (for faculty only!) where kitty litter buckets would get snapped off for taking up too much space
into gym to lift and shower with bag into locker (random locker assignment every time, no long-term lockers)
into office and unload backpack ... set-up computer
run around campus (sometimes backpack is needed for computer or other books)
finish work
to climbing hall inside with backpack
backpack lies at base of wall with some stuff in it water bottles, etc...
into shower room and locker
back on bike
ride to market and buy food with backpack (roll top is good for baguettes and schnapps bottles poking out the top)
back to flat

some days couple that with a ride on a bus between campuses (50min bus ride on a crowded bus)
or riding bike to airport and departing for flight

for me ... panniers are a hassle and aren't comfortable to carry on my back, they're not comfortable when I have to have them on my lap for a bus ride and they don't always fit in an airline seat or go through security easily (although we don't have the TSA thankfully).

for me a high-end 20L backpack is perfect ... i can travel a week out of it fits enough clothes ... it fits a computer really well and it's super durable and doesn't attract unwanted attention.

€90 for a Spear 20 was more than reasonable in my opinion.

https://www.arcteryx.com/product.aspx...model=Spear-20

Ortliebs would be OK if I wouldn't want to fly with them ... but panniers would be more of a hassle.

if one just locks up their bike in their garage and at work then cheap panniers are probably more than fine (or even a kitty litter container).

I'm saying that the airlines could consider it odd or a biohazard and security would give you a hard time.

I like my army navy store heavy duty canvas bags. 3 large ones for $25.00 and tough as nails. a few zip ties and your good to go.

The Detours pannier seems to be over-designed and under-built. The mounting system is woefully inadequate.
Any modern pannier mount should comprise at least 2 quick-release, locking hooks that will continue to support even if the lock mechanism breaks. The lower support should be a solid anti-sway hook, not a hook on the end of some elastic or webbing.
Ortleib are about as good as panniers get. You can get similar mounts from Rixen and Kaul which other bag manufactures use (eg the equally good Carradice). You can retrofit R&K mounts to an existing pannier or to a bag that you construct.

If your budget is constrained you may be able to take a standard welded canoe bag of about 30l and rivet or bolt the R&K bracket through an internal stiffener made from correx (corrugated plastic). Fit a correx internal base stiffener with 4 external plastic feet. Carradice have been using this simple attachment method for decades.
Carradice put a mount on a satchel/brief case type bag but the mount is tilted so the bag slopes down, giving more heel clearance.

This is one of the rail systems. Mine uses an aluminium extrusion and sliding hooks for better positioning.

I would def put R&K in the high-cost high-quality category

webpage: https://www.klickfix.com/index.php?lang=en

Carradice is one of the companies that uses R&K hardware ,
and they have a very rugged densly woven Canvas fabric that is tough.
they make the big saddle bags and Panniers out of It.

If you want something cheap..

Bike Buckets - An inexpensive pannier system you can make
https://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/?doc_id=1841

Ortlieb Shoppers work well for me around town.

You can attach the Arkel cam -lock to your existing bags, they work quite well: https://www.arkel-od.com/us/all-categ...ook-kit-1.html

I said it in another thread but a set of Axiom Panniers I bought are awesome, plus the mounting system.... which most people seem to have problems with there panniers is my favorite part.

Rexin and kaul mounting hardware, I have set of the Seymour dlx 30's

Ortliebs can be had for $153, that is for the back rollers. I have had mine for three years so far. So far that is $51 per year. They are still perfect and I am sure I will have many more years with them. They are quality. I really don't se $153 as being expensive for a product that is well made, waterproof and will last for years. They are hassle free. Check out The TouringStore. https://thetouringstore.com/ORTLIEB/O...BRC%20PAGE.htm

I really like my ortleibs (I've roller classics), but I recently broke one of the quick release buckles. For reference of anyone else ever looking for them, they are "Duraflex Stealth" by National Molding, inc. 25mm is the size, often sold as 1". Ortlieb usa sells replacements; they can be found elsewhere for much less. I got a dozen for what they want for one. I can now make a decent shoulder strap to carry them with!

I've loved every Banjo Brothers bag I've gotten. My everyday panniers are Banjo brothers waterproof panniers. They cost $50 each.

... forgot to mention, they're roll top, so you can hold a TON of stuff when you don't need the top closed. Up to about $100 of groceries (a lot more if you eat mostly caviar).

Have you tried asking Detours? I think I have the same panniers, and they sent me a free set of the old style replacement hooks just because I asked nicely. They actually sent me a free pair of the new ones too, just in case...

I've used the Jandd Economy Panniers for 3 years commuting and I've got no complaints. Not waterproof, but not too expensive.

Here are instructions with pictures online. I switched to a kittier myself, but that's because I want to look weird and different. So far I haven't even painted over the Tidy Cat branding, but I do have a rattle-can of primer ready to go if I get the time.

Ortliebs. Kitty litter buckets would probably make your bike theft proof. I'm definitely not into bike fashion, but there is a line I will not cross.

Not even with a sticker like this on those buckets?

That is what the Scotchlite tape is for.

Actually, I found a construction vest in the road, and I ripped off some strips of reflective material, and affixed them into the groove on top, and the very bottom. It's almost as if I avoided the Tidy Cat logo on purpose!

Didn't read through the whole thread, but did anyone suggest Ortliebs already?

Seriously, if you distribute the purchasing cost over the life span, it's not that expensive. My back roller Classics are maybe 10 years old now. They are used in all kinds of weather, including really cold spells. When I go paddling, I use them as dry sacks in the kayak, so they get exposed to sea water too. They look very used, but are still 100% waterproof. The only thing I've had to fix so far is the plastic locking part of the closing strap that runs over the top. Had one of them snap in the winter (very cold), the closest Ortlieb distributor promptly provided me with two spares at a reasonable cost, and suggested I change the other one too as they have improved their design to be more durable. This was several years ago.

--J

Unless it is something rather subjective like style, color etc.., on a pure technical standpoint if you can get the same life span with products that are half the price where is the need to pay more for the same result? Nevertheless subjective elements can be pretty valid points i chose my winter shoes that way. A good lifespan was a plus. On the other hand if 2 products don't have the same lifespan then...

Thanks for the suggestion. I called Detours and they were great. They don't use that hardware any longer, but the nice person who answered the phone said she's check around and see if there were any laying about. She emailed me that they mail them to me.

She also implied that the previous owners of the company had made an odd decision in specing these clips and that they now have a much better system.

This is great for me as the bags are in great shape, it's just the stupid hardware that sucks. Thr customer service was so good I figure when I inevitably break these clips I'll buy another Detours pannier set.

SIDE NOTE: I looked at Ortliebs and couldn't do that roll top thing. It made no sense to me at all. Yes, I know they are the best, and many highly recommend them, but I don't get it at all. I do know that rolling thing didn't work for me. It was just too awkward. I looked at a couple of other non-roll models, but at well over $100 for just one it was a bit rich for me.

Put a WTB ad on Craigslist for people that bought panniers, did a tour, then stored the bags in their garage for the next 10 years.