toe overlap
#26
Every bike but one that I've owned in the last 30 years (rough count is 26 bikes) there has been toe overlap. The one that didn't have toe overlap was one of the most poor handling bikes I've ever been on. I never saw toe lap as or currently see it as a problem. I find heel strikes on the chain stays more annoying than toe overlap.
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A conclusion is the place where you got tired of thinking. - S. Wright
Favorite rides in the stable: Indy Fab CJ Ti - Colnago MXL - S-Works Roubaix - Habanero Team Issue - Jamis Eclipse carbon/831
#28
Senior Member

Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 919
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From: South Austin, Texas
Bikes: 2010 Origin8 CX700, 2003 Cannondale Backroads Cross Country, 1997 Trek mtn steel frame converted commuter/tourer, 1983 Univega Sportour, 2010 Surly LHT, Others...
Toe overlap on my CX700 w/ tight top tube and sportier handling.
Slow speed.
Not that big o' deal, but is more annoying when running fenders.
Didn't care, riding this bike w/o in hot, dry austin, tx.
Central Ohio likes more fenders, hence more toe overlap issues on this ride.
Something to consider if you plan to ride frequently in cold and wet.
Slow speed.
Not that big o' deal, but is more annoying when running fenders.
Didn't care, riding this bike w/o in hot, dry austin, tx.
Central Ohio likes more fenders, hence more toe overlap issues on this ride.
Something to consider if you plan to ride frequently in cold and wet.
#29
Senior Member

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 22,676
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From: CID
Bikes: 1991 Bianchi Eros, 1964 Armstrong, 1988 Diamondback Ascent, 1988 Bianchi Premio, 1987 Bianchi Sport SX, 1980s Raleigh mixte (hers), All-City Space Horse (hers)
As jralbert might say, think harder.
To put handlebars the right distance from the saddle, you need to adjust stem length. To use a a shorter stem you'd want a longer top tube. Longer top tube = longer front center (BB to front axle distance). Longer front center = less toe overlap. A bike that "fits" with a 120mm stem but has 20mm of overlap might do better, at least with regard to toe overlap, to have 20mm more top tube and a 20mm shorter stem.
At least that's how I read the fork overhang comment.
To put handlebars the right distance from the saddle, you need to adjust stem length. To use a a shorter stem you'd want a longer top tube. Longer top tube = longer front center (BB to front axle distance). Longer front center = less toe overlap. A bike that "fits" with a 120mm stem but has 20mm of overlap might do better, at least with regard to toe overlap, to have 20mm more top tube and a 20mm shorter stem.
At least that's how I read the fork overhang comment.
#30
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 198
Likes: 0
From: Seattle, WA
Bikes: BH RC1, Bianchi Volpe, Orbea Avant
My 52cm has toe overlap. I was really concerned about it initially, but absolutely loved the bike. I have never crashed due to toe overlap and it takes very little time to acclimate to it. I wouldn't worry about it.
#31
aka Tom Reingold




Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 44,135
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From: New York, NY, and High Falls, NY, USA
Bikes: 1962 Rudge Sports, 1971 Raleigh Super Course, 1971 Raleigh Pro Track, 1974 Raleigh International, 1975 Viscount Fixie, 1982 McLean, 1996 Lemond (Ti), 2002 Burley Zydeco tandem
There are some very bizarre responses here.
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Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
#33
aka Tom Reingold




Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 44,135
Likes: 6,350
From: New York, NY, and High Falls, NY, USA
Bikes: 1962 Rudge Sports, 1971 Raleigh Super Course, 1971 Raleigh Pro Track, 1974 Raleigh International, 1975 Viscount Fixie, 1982 McLean, 1996 Lemond (Ti), 2002 Burley Zydeco tandem
Yes, I would suggest you should not decide whether this is acceptable or not based on other people's opinions, since the opinions on both sides are so strong. Try it and see if it's OK. I heard about it and thought I couldn't live with it, and now I have two bikes with it. No big deal at all. When my foot hits the wheel, I'm moving at low speed. I don't have to react quickly. I either turn the wheel or stop pedaling. What's the big deal?
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Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
#35
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 5,720
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From: North of Boston
Bikes: Kona Dawg, Surly 1x1, Karate Monkey, Rockhopper, Crosscheck , Burley Runabout,
#36
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,260
Likes: 2
From: Pacific, WA
Bikes: Custom 531ST touring, Bilenky Viewpoint, Bianchi Milano, vintage Condor racer
With only a 30-inch inseam, it takes some work to avoid toe overlap for me. I build my own frames, I've experimented with various geometries, wheel sizes, top tube vs. stem length, etc. In the end, I don't mind modest toe overlap on touring and commuting bikes. I wouldn't want toe overlap if I were riding trials or technical mountain biking, but for normal road riding, it's no big deal, I'd rather have good handling and modest overlap than zero overlap and excessive rake or a stubby stem.
#37
Senior Member

Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 12,948
Likes: 9
From: England
On racing, sport and fitness bikes it isn't too much of an issue. If you ride loaded bikes with fenders on slow Multiple Use Paths covered in children, dogs, drunks, old people, potholes and posts then one day, your brain will get overloaded and you your sudden steering correction will be interrupted by toe.
TCO is a bug that is avoidable by correct choice of wheel diameter, crank length, and frame geometry.
TCO is a bug that is avoidable by correct choice of wheel diameter, crank length, and frame geometry.
#38
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Joined: Feb 2005
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From: 40205 'ViLLeBiLLie
Bikes: Sngl Spd's, 70's- 80's vintage, D-tube Folder
I had a 50c fixie. The toe-overlap made me realize fixies and small framers arent for me.
I was reminded of this thread yesterday riding home in the snow . . . I would have spent a lot of time picking myself up if I had the short bike
I was reminded of this thread yesterday riding home in the snow . . . I would have spent a lot of time picking myself up if I had the short bike
#39
Road frames are designed to run stems that are 80-120 mm to provide for proper riding position and going longer or shorter affects the handling and weight distribution, upright riding bicycles can use shorter stems since the weight bias is to the rear.
Toe overlap is caused by large feet, and / or steeper headtubes and lower trail forks...
#40
Sub 50cm frames fitted with road wheels (700c or 27 inch) also have overlap issues... this has been addressed with slacker frame angles or in the case of Terry bicycles, using a smaller front wheel with a frame that is built to compensate for this height difference while retaining proper frame angles.
#41
Administrator

Joined: Feb 2005
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From: Delaware shore
Bikes: Cervelo C5, Guru Photon, Waterford, Specialized CX







