PaulRivers

CO2 cartridges are more fussy and there's a lot more to go wrong with them that can leave you stranded. You can find out you don't know how to use the cartridge when you get a flat (happened to me when a bike rental came with a CO2 cartridge and not a pump), you can make a mistake getting cartridge on and lose all the CO2, you can use a CO2 cartridge and forget to replace it at the end of your ride and end up with nothing the next time you have a flat, you can use your CO2 cartridge and get another flat and not have anything to fill it with, you can use your CO2 cartridge and get another flat because you didn't find all the punctures in the tube and not have anything to fill it with, you can get a defective CO2 cartridge and there's no way to tell until you use it (though to be fair your pump could fail as well), I believe you need a CO2 inflator if you want to put small amounts of CO2 into the tire rather than all of it at once (adding some size and weight, though as I don't use CO2 I'm not 100% sure on that last one - adding a little bit of air is very very helpful for finding the flat, and for getting the tube to sit on the tire easier). Biking with a friend and the got a flat? You have to decide if you want to let them use up one of your CO2 cartridges. And of course the slight additional cost and additional hassle or replacing CO2 cartridges.

The advantage is a pump is that it's far more foolproof - you never run out of air. You can't screw up putting it on and lose your air, put it on incorrectly and you just readjust it. You never forget to put a new one on your bike because it never runs out of air. It's never a problem for the pump to have multiple flats, because again - you never run out of air.

The disadvantages of a pump is that a smaller pump won't get your tire back up to it's max psi, a larger pump is more difficult to mount on your bike and weighs a little more (a smaller pump is easy to mount under the water bottle cage), and a larger pump will take a little longer to inflate your tire vs a CO2 cartridge. But for me - none of these even come close to the advantage that the pump always works.

I mean entire threads have turned into a CO2 vs Pump flamewar, but I think the default should be to buy a pump, and only buy CO2 if you've practiced using it and having a specific reason for it. If I was training for racing - maybe I'd carry CO2. But I'm not, I prefer knowing that my emergency backup is just going to work and never have to worry about running out of it when I need it the most.

PaulRivers

Lol, that's why I only carry "glueless" patches. Had a glue tube glue itself shut after 1 use - what the heck is the point of that? :-)

megalowmatt

I carry co2 only on road rides with a group of people. If I flat there's no point in them all standing around watching me use the pump for several minutes when the co2 will do the job in 20 seconds.

I know that sounds petty but sometimes it's just the little things in life that make all the difference. I still carry a small pump just in case.

As for my commmuter, no co2. Just the pump (Topeak Road Morph G), tube and patch kit.

lostarchitect 

Or, perhaps, those that display kindness towards others and those that think only of themselves.

spare_wheel

i've used more than a dozen C02 inflators over the past decade without a single failure. i think the only reason there is a flame war is because conservative "types" who prefer old-fashioned bike pumps make misleading statements about inflators (and index shifting, brifters, compressionless cables, carbon fiber, disc brakes).

alan s 

I think we agree. If you aren't prepared for a flat tire, you are a burden on society, and are not thinking of others. The person who displays kindness towards others takes the time and care to prepare themselves for bike commuting, which includes being prepared to fix the inevitable flat tire. That means carrying the proper supplies and knowing how to use them.

Mark Stone

One day I was driving my car and passed a couple of guys in full kit repairing a flat. I pulled up and said "Clinchers?" One of them answered "Yes". I said "Need a hand?" They said no, and looked a little irritated. I said "You don't understand - I gotta Joe Blow with Presta here in the car. Again - Need a hand?" Two new friends lol

cyccommute 

It doesn't matter how you have "built" your tires. Flats are random events that can happen at any time. You can go for years without a flat or minutes. There is no way of predicting when they are going to happen. You may like the idea of riding on flat tires and think that it's a wise idea but I see it as being penny-wise and pound foolish.

You carry nitrile gloves, zip ties, extra clothing and a survival basic kit...on a commute?! On a short commute?! Remember the topic of the thread? And, with all the stuff you carry, you think carrying a pump and tube is a hassle?!

If my experience, a chain jumping (I assume you mean falling off the crankset or coming off the cassette) is a rare event and pretty easily fixed without any tools whatsoever and is usually the result of a poor adjustment that I can fix at home. A chain breaking (if that's what you mean by a "chain jumped") is an even rarer event...far rarer than a flat tire...and can be prevented by being cognizant of chain wear. Also, in my experience, trying to handle a bike on a flat tire on dry or wet roads would be far more hazardous than falling into a bush.

Perhaps my experiences are colored by living where pokey things grow but I'd no more leave home without a pump (mounted to each and every one of my 8 bikes), tube and patch kit than ride naked. Flats are a fact of life here.

Mark Stone

My last flat was in the summer of 2008, almost six years (11 or 12 thousand miles) ago. Nevertheless, I carry a tube, patch kit, a stick of dynamite, and my frame pump even for short rides. Well, maybe not the dynamite.

On the very first ride I take unprepared, I will puncture. Murphy is in da house.

I haven't had a flat in 6 years because I use Continental SportContact, Continental Touring Plus, and Schwalbe Marathon Plus. If you like having punctures, keep buying the $12 Carp tires. I say spend the few extra bucks, get the tech, and riiiiiiiiiiiiide. (Of course, just because I said that, I will puncture twice on tonight's "midnight run" lol)

lostarchitect 

I suppose you could look at it that way, if you have a certain mindset. I prefer to think, "We all make mistakes. Maybe this person is new to this and could use some helpful hints so it doesn't happen again. Maybe they carry a kit every day, but somehow lost or forgot it today. Maybe they ran over 3 pieces of glass but only have 2 patches." The why doesn't matter that much.

Anyway, don't ask if they need help if you don't want to, that's your business. I hope when you need help sometime someone asks you, and you accept their kindness.

jin_yeugh

Every ride I go on, I carry a spare tube, pump, patch kit, spoke wrench, and chain tool. I must admit I'm still on the fence about this some days for my 3 mile commute. I can easily walk the 3 miles if I got a flat but it takes just a couple minutes to change and inflate a new tube and the weight is really nothing.

PaulRivers

Lol, I think the reason there's a flame war is because the latest-fad types are always trying to make perfectly useful items into "omg, I cannot believe she is wearing that!" status symbols. I own a top of the line full carbon road bike, a 2009 Specialized Tarmac SL, but that's not going to make me recommend something fiddly to new bikers just because Tina **totally* thinks it's awesome.

CO2 cartridges are like a manual transmission on a car - they have their uses, especially for racers, but for most people an automatic transmission is just easier to use. I got a flat while mountain biking in the middle of the desert on a rental bike and managed to mess us my CO2 cartridge. Would have been stranded and ruined my whole day if someone with a pump hadn't come by and offered to let me use it. I have yet to see an argument for a non-racer to use CO2 that actually holds up and doesn't seem to just be about chasing empty status. Most of the people who have a fit about using CO2 seem to be the same people who show up to rides with a $3,000 full carbon bike but can't go above 15mph. (Well, that and people who genuinely race and have an actual reason to shave grams off their bike.)

alan s 

If someone flags me down and I can help, I will, but I'm not going out of my way. My view is you get yourself to work and back on a timely basis without relying on others, including family, friends and co-workers. That includes weather, breakdowns, minor crashes, and any other reasons one can come up with. Sure, there are exceptional circumstances, but in many years of year round commuting, I've never had to rely on others to bail me out. That's not good luck, but good planning and execution. When I see a person fixing a flat, I've been there, done that many times before. I don't even slow down or give it a second thought. It not a lack of kindness, but the knowledge that the person has it under control, unless they indicate otherwise.

erig007

Yep it matters. The same as having a car accident with a belt on vs without a belt everything else being equal

There are several definitions of risk

The definition of risk i have comes from CSST a governmental entity that deals with health and security of workers in Quebec
Risk = probability x damage x exposure

Probability is different than damage. With the same probability of occurrence, better protection may means lower damage. Where there is no damage there is no flat.


Yeah i've noticed that this thread is about short commute.

I make a distinction between what is essential to ride and what is just a hassle
If a chain jump you can't ride if your steering bolt breaks you can't ride, if you lose a pedal you can't ride, if your leg is broken you can't ride, with a flat i can still ride nearly as easy for many miles.

Regarding the chain jump, have you ridden an IGH? IGH bikes don't usually have tensioning devices so the chain tend to jump pretty often. I've DIYed something but it isn't fullproof.

Anyway, my approach works for me. I never said it should be the case for everybody.
Other situations other approaches.

caloso

Among racers, I've found it to the be the opposite, at least in NorCal. During a race you're either going to have a wheel pit (crit) or a follow vehicle (road race), so you don't carry anything at all. But on a training ride, I see plenty of frame pumps and saddle bags. You also see guys carrying everything in jersey pockets too, but it's all personal preference. I've never heard anyone get a ribbing about either way.

But you will get a raft of **** if you are unprepared and show up with nothing.

lostarchitect 

Sorry, if it wasn't obvious, I'm not talking about people who obviously have the situation in hand. I'm talking about people looking confusedly at their bike or walking along pushing a bike with a flat. Yeah, if they are already fixing the flat they're good to go. I help someone about 3 or 4 times a year. I ask several more people if they need help, and most of them say, "No problem, I'm a few blocks from home/work anyway." Sometimes it's a flat, sometimes it's someone who doesn't know how to put their chain back on or why it fell off. I always explain what I'm doing and if possible, how to avoid the situation in the future. I just consider it good citizenship, I guess. I used to help people a lot when I rode a motorcycle everywhere, too.

PaulRivers

Ha, I want to ride with those guys. To bad I'm not in NorCal. :-)

PaulRivers

...what? The chain doesn't move (side to side or from one gear to another) at all on an IGH. How would it jump?

openaff

I have been lucky enough to only get one flat commuting. I didn't have a pump and I was two miles away from my ferry ride leaving within the next fifteen or twenty minutes, so I ran with my bike in cleats to catch it with barely a minute to spare.

I carry a pump now, always.

CommuteCommando

I Use CO2.

+
Portable
Fast
-
Cost (A pump has a one time fixed cost)
Temperature-As the gas expands out of the cylinder it gets COLD. This hardens the rubber seal in the Presta valve which can cause it to leak quite a but of that gas when you disconnect.

erig007

Chain wears doing so it gets longer. Since there isn't usually a tensioning devices on an IGH bike, the chain get loose pretty quickly and tend to jump when you ride on a bumpy road or something like this. I mostly solved this by doing a DIY adjustable chain jump guard like this one but on the rear sprocket

jyl

I carried CO2. Got a flat. Ended up knocking on doors until I found someone with a presta valve pump. Yeah it was operator error but the single CO2 system is kind of unforgiving.

So then I carried two CO2s. Then I flatted twice in a mile. My double CO2 system had came too close to failing.

After that I carried a Lezyne mini pump that also takes a CO2, and a single CO2. Of course, I haven't flatted since.

But then I started riding on tubular tires. So now I carry the Lezyne mini pump and a can of Vittoria Pitstop sealant/inflator. And a spare tub - sometimes.

Oh, what about for the commute? Frame pump, spare tube, patches.

wolfchild

I never leave home and ride without a pump, spare tubes and tire leavers. When I say never I mean never. Most of my rides are long enough that walking and pushing my bike would be a major hassle. I am busy and don't have time for bull**** like that... I make sure I am prepared.

TransitBiker

What are the pros/cons of Co2?

- Andy

metz1295

with what little i know:

pro: light weight. easy to carry. fast inflation

con: they won't give you full pressure, only enough to get you to a pump. i guess there's a chance you may not have enough with you. i'm told to practice inflating at home, so you don't get caught wasting canisters in an emergency.