What would you do?
#1
Thread Starter
Keepin it Wheel




Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 10,962
Likes: 5,197
From: San Diego
Bikes: Surly CrossCheck, Krampus
What would you do?
Here's a google map for reference of my situation.
So part of my commute is to come down the driveway opposite Maturin, right on Bernardo Center, quick left on Camino del Norte.
Today I came down the driveway to a green light, and could see the cars on my left were waiting stopped. That's good, I cruise through the right turn and evaluate the sitiation at the big light. Forward and left turn are red, but lots of cars piled up in all lanes, it's about to turn green. Since the original red light is holding back traffic for me, it's no problem to cross over lanes to ride the paint between left and forward lanes. As I'm starting to split between cars, the left arrow turns green (straight-ahead is still red, opposite left turn is also green, no worries).
As I split forward, I reach that point where I pass the still-stopped cars, and reach a nice long gap in front of the next car in the line to get moving. The gap is like a full car long, so I get into it (right tire track) so as not to freak out the stationary cars on my right waiting for their light. (Perhaps the stationary/just getting started car I went in front of might have considered that I "cut him off", but there was no honk or brake screech). As I finally reach the intersection, I want to go as fast as possible to not hinder any cars making the left turn behind me; I start falling behind the car in front of me, so I slam on the pedals right when I start to turn left. This causes me to pop a little bit of a wheelie, the bars turn a little bit in the air and when the front tire lands again, it is not straight; I veer slightly left (towards moving traffic), and for a split second I think my bike is about to slide out from under me and I'm gonna fall to the left and get my skull popped by a car wheel. But only for a split second, fortunately I didn't really lose control, and I relaxed my left turn as usual to get wide of the cars behind me making their left turns. Made it to the bike lane on southbound Camino del Norte, and the rest of the commute was uneventful.
SO, I survived a teeny-tiny scare, if there was any "fault" it was probably mine. I have to negotiate this intersection every single day, so I want rock-solid strategies for minimizing probability of death, because even miniscule probabilities accumulate over the years. So I'd like to hear y'alls feedback about how you would handle it? Would you ever try to keep up with left-turning car traffic? Would you keep riding the paint at a deliberately slow speed until getting into the open intersection? Would you have taken the lane more clearly (all the way to the center or left tire track)? If taking the lane, how hard do you try to keep up with car traffic vs exercise your right to go how fast you go, and cagers can suck it?
So part of my commute is to come down the driveway opposite Maturin, right on Bernardo Center, quick left on Camino del Norte.
Today I came down the driveway to a green light, and could see the cars on my left were waiting stopped. That's good, I cruise through the right turn and evaluate the sitiation at the big light. Forward and left turn are red, but lots of cars piled up in all lanes, it's about to turn green. Since the original red light is holding back traffic for me, it's no problem to cross over lanes to ride the paint between left and forward lanes. As I'm starting to split between cars, the left arrow turns green (straight-ahead is still red, opposite left turn is also green, no worries).
As I split forward, I reach that point where I pass the still-stopped cars, and reach a nice long gap in front of the next car in the line to get moving. The gap is like a full car long, so I get into it (right tire track) so as not to freak out the stationary cars on my right waiting for their light. (Perhaps the stationary/just getting started car I went in front of might have considered that I "cut him off", but there was no honk or brake screech). As I finally reach the intersection, I want to go as fast as possible to not hinder any cars making the left turn behind me; I start falling behind the car in front of me, so I slam on the pedals right when I start to turn left. This causes me to pop a little bit of a wheelie, the bars turn a little bit in the air and when the front tire lands again, it is not straight; I veer slightly left (towards moving traffic), and for a split second I think my bike is about to slide out from under me and I'm gonna fall to the left and get my skull popped by a car wheel. But only for a split second, fortunately I didn't really lose control, and I relaxed my left turn as usual to get wide of the cars behind me making their left turns. Made it to the bike lane on southbound Camino del Norte, and the rest of the commute was uneventful.
SO, I survived a teeny-tiny scare, if there was any "fault" it was probably mine. I have to negotiate this intersection every single day, so I want rock-solid strategies for minimizing probability of death, because even miniscule probabilities accumulate over the years. So I'd like to hear y'alls feedback about how you would handle it? Would you ever try to keep up with left-turning car traffic? Would you keep riding the paint at a deliberately slow speed until getting into the open intersection? Would you have taken the lane more clearly (all the way to the center or left tire track)? If taking the lane, how hard do you try to keep up with car traffic vs exercise your right to go how fast you go, and cagers can suck it?
#2
Sounds like you did everything quite well. I just don't slam on the pedals that hard - I try to get a good swift push off, but I'm not THAT worried about the cars behind me. It's for sure they won't move to get out of my way to let ME through a light.
I have noticed though that when the light changes is a point when things can go wrong. For instance, if you slam the pedals too hard to get going, you can pop the chain off and be standing there like a fool holding your handle bars and not moving, with cars behind you honking. I've done THAT - and that has taught me not to slam those pedals too hard when the light changes.
All in all though, I'm never too worried about causing someone a 5-second delay in their driving. If you can't stand being slowed down occasionally, then you have no business driving a car.
I have noticed though that when the light changes is a point when things can go wrong. For instance, if you slam the pedals too hard to get going, you can pop the chain off and be standing there like a fool holding your handle bars and not moving, with cars behind you honking. I've done THAT - and that has taught me not to slam those pedals too hard when the light changes.

All in all though, I'm never too worried about causing someone a 5-second delay in their driving. If you can't stand being slowed down occasionally, then you have no business driving a car.
#4
Thread Starter
Keepin it Wheel




Joined: Aug 2011
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Likes: 5,197
From: San Diego
Bikes: Surly CrossCheck, Krampus
Popping a wheelie is not a regular thing for me -- except every night huffing up the steep driveway to my place in granny gear I often get a little lift. Maybe I was just in too low a gear to really stomp on the pedals? I did not have an especially heavy rear load, just my rack and kitty litter bucket holding a couple pounds of cargo (clothes, lock, etc).
Slamming the pedals and dropping a chain, that would be bad -- although I would expect that more from a dead stop rather than a quick acceleration without changing gear.
Thinking more about it, I think I should have just picked one: either get in line with the cars and fully take the lane (at the back, waiting my turn like everybody else), or split the lane, and stay clearly on the paint, not sprinting, but maintaining a smooth, predictable line that will not make drivers freak out.
Slamming the pedals and dropping a chain, that would be bad -- although I would expect that more from a dead stop rather than a quick acceleration without changing gear.
Thinking more about it, I think I should have just picked one: either get in line with the cars and fully take the lane (at the back, waiting my turn like everybody else), or split the lane, and stay clearly on the paint, not sprinting, but maintaining a smooth, predictable line that will not make drivers freak out.
#5
Senior Member
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 794
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From: Nashville TN
Bikes: Trek 7.3FX, Diamondback Edgewood hybrid, KHS Montana
Thinking more about it, I think I should have just picked one: either get in line with the cars and fully take the lane (at the back, waiting my turn like everybody else), or split the lane, and stay clearly on the paint, not sprinting, but maintaining a smooth, predictable line that will not make drivers freak out.
btw, I too have popped the chain trying to make a quick dash on green. It's not fun at all.
Last edited by FenderTL5; 05-21-14 at 10:45 AM.
#6
Yogi on Wheels
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 138
Likes: 0
From: Cypress, CA
Bikes: 2010 Orbea Diva Dura-Ace, 2012 Fuji Finest, 1986 Univega Gran Turismo
Thinking more about it, I think I should have just picked one: either get in line with the cars and fully take the lane (at the back, waiting my turn like everybody else), or split the lane, and stay clearly on the paint, not sprinting, but maintaining a smooth, predictable line that will not make drivers freak out.
#7
Thread Starter
Keepin it Wheel




Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 10,962
Likes: 5,197
From: San Diego
Bikes: Surly CrossCheck, Krampus
yah, good points. Most days I get to the light when it's red, and I split the lane, move to the front of the crosswalk to wait, and turn wide, so no issues. Just this time the light turned green while I was splitting, and I think I wasn't quite prepared with a strategy adjustment.
#8
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2012
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From: Lancaster, PA, USA
Bikes: 2012 Trek Allant, 2016 Bianchi Volpe Disc
Can't say what I would do, as splitting lanes isn't allowed here in PA. But I do take the lane when traffic is backed up in a left turn lane. I stay in the lane the whole way through the turn, and then move back over to the right to let cars past.
I've popped a chain off too. Shifting while starting up hard from a red light...bang I'm on the ground. Luckily the cement truck behind me saw what happened and didn't run me over. Very embarrassing though.
I've popped a chain off too. Shifting while starting up hard from a red light...bang I'm on the ground. Luckily the cement truck behind me saw what happened and didn't run me over. Very embarrassing though.
#9
Delusions of Grandeur
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 208
Likes: 0
From: East Texas
Bikes: '92 Specialized Crossroads, '79 Schwinn Varsity, '72 Schwinn Speedster
I think what you did was right accept for loosing control of you're bike, if either wheel comes off the ground unintentionally then you no longer have control, I do it usually on big hills coming out of the saddle with not enough gear, dropping a chain sucks and can be painful.
Last edited by Dzrtrat; 05-21-14 at 08:38 PM. Reason: can't speeell
#10
contiuniously variable

Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 2,280
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From: Southeastern Pennsylvania
Bikes: 2012 Breezer Uptown Infinity, Fuji Varsity
Glad you are OK!!
On monday i was in the lowest ratio at a light in town, and the front lifted off. The lowest ratio is extremely torque-rich and RPM-poor so momentarily the back moved and the front could not get out of the way fast enough. I'm learning that i don't have to be in such a low ratio on flat streets, but its a lifesaver on hills when you gotta stop going uphill.
I think the most important thing is to stay cool & have confidence that your machine will plant itself back down & keep the front wheel pointed where it needs to be.
- Andy
On monday i was in the lowest ratio at a light in town, and the front lifted off. The lowest ratio is extremely torque-rich and RPM-poor so momentarily the back moved and the front could not get out of the way fast enough. I'm learning that i don't have to be in such a low ratio on flat streets, but its a lifesaver on hills when you gotta stop going uphill.
I think the most important thing is to stay cool & have confidence that your machine will plant itself back down & keep the front wheel pointed where it needs to be.

- Andy
#11
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2014
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From: Mooresville, NC (Charlotte suburb)
Bikes: Cannondale Synapse, Trek 5000 TCT, Giant OCR
+1 on the sprint practice. I'm no racer, but just watching a couple of Tour stages I have seen what the sprinters do: stand up, lean forward and hammer. The front wheel ain't coming up in that case. Just enough to get you up to speed anyway.
But I agree with your general assessment and have been in that same situation. While trying to filter up to the front, the light turns. It's not as bad if the cars going straight still have a red, but I've also been where they get green at the same time, putting me between 2 lanes of moving cars. Then I am forced to take the lane at least until the turn begins and I can get safely over again.
But I agree with your general assessment and have been in that same situation. While trying to filter up to the front, the light turns. It's not as bad if the cars going straight still have a red, but I've also been where they get green at the same time, putting me between 2 lanes of moving cars. Then I am forced to take the lane at least until the turn begins and I can get safely over again.
#12
Senior Member



Joined: Jul 2007
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From: Manhattan & Woodstock NY
Bikes: 2024 A Homer Hilsen, 1992 Paramount PDG Series, 1991 Mercian King of Mercia, 1987 Mercian Pro, 1985 Shogun 500, 1969? Falcon San Remo, 1972 Peugeot PX-10, 1972 Schwinn Paramount P13-9, 1971 Peugeot PX-10, 1970 Raleigh Pro Mk I
Some eye contact and hand signals to the car you got in front of could be helpful. And...you live near friends there in RB - have the fires retreated?
#13
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2008
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From: Southern CaliFORNIA.
Bikes: KHS Alite 500, Trek 7.2 FX , Masi Partenza, Masi Fixed Special, Masi Cran Criterium
This is similar to what I do. The wheelie thing is a bit disconcerting, and coming from not being in the right gear, not that I always am. I find that in a left turn pocket my speed is not different from the cars, at least until they clear the intersection. I often stop in the center of the turn pocket lane behind any cars already there, and a car length or two back, so I can get up and clipped in before things are moving to fast. Fumbling while clipping in is my biggest concern when taking a pocket.
#14
Thread Starter
Keepin it Wheel




Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 10,962
Likes: 5,197
From: San Diego
Bikes: Surly CrossCheck, Krampus
Yes, the "Bernardo" fire was the first to flare up, and the first to be dealt with. My home in Poway was not in any evac zone, the kids' missed a couple days of school though.
#15
Senior Member



Joined: Jul 2007
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From: Manhattan & Woodstock NY
Bikes: 2024 A Homer Hilsen, 1992 Paramount PDG Series, 1991 Mercian King of Mercia, 1987 Mercian Pro, 1985 Shogun 500, 1969? Falcon San Remo, 1972 Peugeot PX-10, 1972 Schwinn Paramount P13-9, 1971 Peugeot PX-10, 1970 Raleigh Pro Mk I
#16
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From: Southern CaliFORNIA.
Bikes: KHS Alite 500, Trek 7.2 FX , Masi Partenza, Masi Fixed Special, Masi Cran Criterium
I'll add that I do not always take that pocket. It depends on traffic, and where the lights are in their sequence when I pull up. Too much traffic going real fast, I go through and wait for the light in the other direction. I also go through if the perpendicular through signal will change before the turn arrow does.
#17
Thread Starter
Keepin it Wheel




Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 10,962
Likes: 5,197
From: San Diego
Bikes: Surly CrossCheck, Krampus
Yes, that is my bailout strategy; don't cross any lanes, stay in the bike lane, ride straight through to the N corner of the intersection and wait for the light so I can go SW. But in this case I had clear road to slide over lanes, and my left turn light coming up soon...
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