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What would you do?

Old 05-20-14 | 08:57 PM
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What would you do?

Here's a google map for reference of my situation.

So part of my commute is to come down the driveway opposite Maturin, right on Bernardo Center, quick left on Camino del Norte.

Today I came down the driveway to a green light, and could see the cars on my left were waiting stopped. That's good, I cruise through the right turn and evaluate the sitiation at the big light. Forward and left turn are red, but lots of cars piled up in all lanes, it's about to turn green. Since the original red light is holding back traffic for me, it's no problem to cross over lanes to ride the paint between left and forward lanes. As I'm starting to split between cars, the left arrow turns green (straight-ahead is still red, opposite left turn is also green, no worries).

As I split forward, I reach that point where I pass the still-stopped cars, and reach a nice long gap in front of the next car in the line to get moving. The gap is like a full car long, so I get into it (right tire track) so as not to freak out the stationary cars on my right waiting for their light. (Perhaps the stationary/just getting started car I went in front of might have considered that I "cut him off", but there was no honk or brake screech). As I finally reach the intersection, I want to go as fast as possible to not hinder any cars making the left turn behind me; I start falling behind the car in front of me, so I slam on the pedals right when I start to turn left. This causes me to pop a little bit of a wheelie, the bars turn a little bit in the air and when the front tire lands again, it is not straight; I veer slightly left (towards moving traffic), and for a split second I think my bike is about to slide out from under me and I'm gonna fall to the left and get my skull popped by a car wheel. But only for a split second, fortunately I didn't really lose control, and I relaxed my left turn as usual to get wide of the cars behind me making their left turns. Made it to the bike lane on southbound Camino del Norte, and the rest of the commute was uneventful.

SO, I survived a teeny-tiny scare, if there was any "fault" it was probably mine. I have to negotiate this intersection every single day, so I want rock-solid strategies for minimizing probability of death, because even miniscule probabilities accumulate over the years. So I'd like to hear y'alls feedback about how you would handle it? Would you ever try to keep up with left-turning car traffic? Would you keep riding the paint at a deliberately slow speed until getting into the open intersection? Would you have taken the lane more clearly (all the way to the center or left tire track)? If taking the lane, how hard do you try to keep up with car traffic vs exercise your right to go how fast you go, and cagers can suck it?
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Old 05-20-14 | 09:48 PM
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Sounds like you did everything quite well. I just don't slam on the pedals that hard - I try to get a good swift push off, but I'm not THAT worried about the cars behind me. It's for sure they won't move to get out of my way to let ME through a light.

I have noticed though that when the light changes is a point when things can go wrong. For instance, if you slam the pedals too hard to get going, you can pop the chain off and be standing there like a fool holding your handle bars and not moving, with cars behind you honking. I've done THAT - and that has taught me not to slam those pedals too hard when the light changes.

All in all though, I'm never too worried about causing someone a 5-second delay in their driving. If you can't stand being slowed down occasionally, then you have no business driving a car.
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Old 05-20-14 | 09:59 PM
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Sounds like you just need a little sprint practice. Your front wheel shouldn't be coming off the ground in a sprint.
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Old 05-21-14 | 09:19 AM
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Popping a wheelie is not a regular thing for me -- except every night huffing up the steep driveway to my place in granny gear I often get a little lift. Maybe I was just in too low a gear to really stomp on the pedals? I did not have an especially heavy rear load, just my rack and kitty litter bucket holding a couple pounds of cargo (clothes, lock, etc).

Slamming the pedals and dropping a chain, that would be bad -- although I would expect that more from a dead stop rather than a quick acceleration without changing gear.

Thinking more about it, I think I should have just picked one: either get in line with the cars and fully take the lane (at the back, waiting my turn like everybody else), or split the lane, and stay clearly on the paint, not sprinting, but maintaining a smooth, predictable line that will not make drivers freak out.
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Old 05-21-14 | 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by RubeRad
Thinking more about it, I think I should have just picked one: either get in line with the cars and fully take the lane (at the back, waiting my turn like everybody else), or split the lane, and stay clearly on the paint, not sprinting, but maintaining a smooth, predictable line that will not make drivers freak out.
Using the google street view, I would concur with your comment here. Pick one or the other, depending on the traffic and how much room there is. It looks like you have a bike lane once you make the left, so if there's room, keeping to the right of the turning cars wouldn't seem so bad. If it's tight, I'd cue up with the cars.

btw, I too have popped the chain trying to make a quick dash on green. It's not fun at all.

Last edited by FenderTL5; 05-21-14 at 10:45 AM.
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Old 05-21-14 | 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by RubeRad
Thinking more about it, I think I should have just picked one: either get in line with the cars and fully take the lane (at the back, waiting my turn like everybody else), or split the lane, and stay clearly on the paint, not sprinting, but maintaining a smooth, predictable line that will not make drivers freak out.
I have a similar left turn on my daily commute, and it's a very busy intersection (but the cars are in packs due to light changes). I have to make a daily judgement on where to stop, and most of the time it's on the paint very slightly left to avoid being side swiped from the right. I never take the lane in front of the left turning car. There are just too many potential issues trying to go forward (not getting clipped in right away, slipping the pedals, etc) and when the car expects you to be moving, you can't always assume that they will notice your problems and stop moving forward. Taking the back of the lane seems safe in your situation because there is no divider between east/westbound traffic. Just be wary when the pocket is lined on the left with trees/signs that block other cars entering the lane from seeing you in time. It's particularly a problem in suburban areas.
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Old 05-21-14 | 01:48 PM
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yah, good points. Most days I get to the light when it's red, and I split the lane, move to the front of the crosswalk to wait, and turn wide, so no issues. Just this time the light turned green while I was splitting, and I think I wasn't quite prepared with a strategy adjustment.
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Old 05-21-14 | 01:56 PM
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Can't say what I would do, as splitting lanes isn't allowed here in PA. But I do take the lane when traffic is backed up in a left turn lane. I stay in the lane the whole way through the turn, and then move back over to the right to let cars past.

I've popped a chain off too. Shifting while starting up hard from a red light...bang I'm on the ground. Luckily the cement truck behind me saw what happened and didn't run me over. Very embarrassing though.
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Old 05-21-14 | 08:37 PM
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I think what you did was right accept for loosing control of you're bike, if either wheel comes off the ground unintentionally then you no longer have control, I do it usually on big hills coming out of the saddle with not enough gear, dropping a chain sucks and can be painful.

Last edited by Dzrtrat; 05-21-14 at 08:38 PM. Reason: can't speeell
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Old 05-21-14 | 10:44 PM
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Glad you are OK!!

On monday i was in the lowest ratio at a light in town, and the front lifted off. The lowest ratio is extremely torque-rich and RPM-poor so momentarily the back moved and the front could not get out of the way fast enough. I'm learning that i don't have to be in such a low ratio on flat streets, but its a lifesaver on hills when you gotta stop going uphill.

I think the most important thing is to stay cool & have confidence that your machine will plant itself back down & keep the front wheel pointed where it needs to be.

- Andy
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Old 05-22-14 | 06:31 AM
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+1 on the sprint practice. I'm no racer, but just watching a couple of Tour stages I have seen what the sprinters do: stand up, lean forward and hammer. The front wheel ain't coming up in that case. Just enough to get you up to speed anyway.

But I agree with your general assessment and have been in that same situation. While trying to filter up to the front, the light turns. It's not as bad if the cars going straight still have a red, but I've also been where they get green at the same time, putting me between 2 lanes of moving cars. Then I am forced to take the lane at least until the turn begins and I can get safely over again.
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Old 05-22-14 | 10:07 AM
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Some eye contact and hand signals to the car you got in front of could be helpful. And...you live near friends there in RB - have the fires retreated?
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Old 05-22-14 | 10:30 AM
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This is similar to what I do. The wheelie thing is a bit disconcerting, and coming from not being in the right gear, not that I always am. I find that in a left turn pocket my speed is not different from the cars, at least until they clear the intersection. I often stop in the center of the turn pocket lane behind any cars already there, and a car length or two back, so I can get up and clipped in before things are moving to fast. Fumbling while clipping in is my biggest concern when taking a pocket.
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Old 05-22-14 | 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by ascherer
Some eye contact and hand signals to the car you got in front of could be helpful. And...you live near friends there in RB - have the fires retreated?
Yes, the "Bernardo" fire was the first to flare up, and the first to be dealt with. My home in Poway was not in any evac zone, the kids' missed a couple days of school though.
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Old 05-22-14 | 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by RubeRad
Yes, the "Bernardo" fire was the first to flare up, and the first to be dealt with. My home in Poway was not in any evac zone, the kids' missed a couple days of school though.
Glad it didn't get worse!
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Old 05-22-14 | 02:06 PM
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I'll add that I do not always take that pocket. It depends on traffic, and where the lights are in their sequence when I pull up. Too much traffic going real fast, I go through and wait for the light in the other direction. I also go through if the perpendicular through signal will change before the turn arrow does.
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Old 05-22-14 | 02:15 PM
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Yes, that is my bailout strategy; don't cross any lanes, stay in the bike lane, ride straight through to the N corner of the intersection and wait for the light so I can go SW. But in this case I had clear road to slide over lanes, and my left turn light coming up soon...
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