Value of Bianchi Veloce
#1
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Junior Member
Joined: Jun 2014
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Value of Bianchi Veloce
Hello all
I'm in Virginia for the summer and looking to get a bike. I saw this thing pop up on craigslist, asking price is 550 (probably non-negotiable). I have about a 1 mile commute to work. The roads are paved but they're not very smooth (not a lot of potholes, but the roads just seem really old and worn out). My main use of the bike would be to take me 5-10 miles after work or on weekends (to hills for longboarding). Only one picture:

I have never ridden a road bike (although I'm quite comfortable on the 13" trek 930 I rode this year after buying for $40--can do wheelies and bunnyhops and make u-turns with no hands) so I have no idea what to expect really. I've seen people on road bikes before and the crouched position seems like it would be less than ideal for commuting (especially because my main goal would be to avoid sweating, at least in the morning [well I suppose my main goal is getting to work faster, as the least sweaty way would be to just continue walking. But given that I want to ride a bike, I'm not looking for incremental speed advantages--the large initial advantage of being on wheels is enough]).
So my first question is, does 550 seem like a fair price for this bike? Secondly, as I've never even ridden something with skinny tires, will this be a nicer ride than, say, a <$200 fixie? And thirdly, is a road bike nice for commuting?
These questions are probably pretty noobish so feel free to direct me to where they have undoubtedly been answered already.
Thanks
from the ad:
Upgrades include:
Easton full carbon fork
Chris King headset
Ritchey Pro Stem
3T Bars
USE Carbon Seatpost
Campagnolo Record Crankset/ chainrings
Brand new (never ridden) 105 derailleurs, brakes, shifters
Brand new (never ridden) r500 wheel set
Also I'm 6'2", and the bike is listed at 56cm. Ad poster said he was 6'. I'm wondering if a smaller bike would allow me to have a more upright position? Or would you actually want a larger bike with a lowered seatpost.
After further consideration, I think I know the answer to these questions--definitely not the best commuter, definitely not necessary for me. But that greenish blue is soooooo nice
One last thing--would probably try to resell it at the end of the summer (so resale value is another big consideration), or if I really liked it, ship it back home.
Oh and does anyone know anything about this bike
https://washingtondc.craigslist.org/d...498655745.html
Also very pretty. Doesn't look as nice of a bike but I don't know why I have that impression
or this one:
https://washingtondc.craigslist.org/n...509816248.html
Also bianchi, but not as nice of a color (similar tho) and it says cyclocross (which from a google search seems to be the perfect type of bike for what I'm looking to do)
or this one:
https://washingtondc.craigslist.org/n...483641459.html
Apparently the eros is less nice than the veloce?
I'm in Virginia for the summer and looking to get a bike. I saw this thing pop up on craigslist, asking price is 550 (probably non-negotiable). I have about a 1 mile commute to work. The roads are paved but they're not very smooth (not a lot of potholes, but the roads just seem really old and worn out). My main use of the bike would be to take me 5-10 miles after work or on weekends (to hills for longboarding). Only one picture:
I have never ridden a road bike (although I'm quite comfortable on the 13" trek 930 I rode this year after buying for $40--can do wheelies and bunnyhops and make u-turns with no hands) so I have no idea what to expect really. I've seen people on road bikes before and the crouched position seems like it would be less than ideal for commuting (especially because my main goal would be to avoid sweating, at least in the morning [well I suppose my main goal is getting to work faster, as the least sweaty way would be to just continue walking. But given that I want to ride a bike, I'm not looking for incremental speed advantages--the large initial advantage of being on wheels is enough]).
So my first question is, does 550 seem like a fair price for this bike? Secondly, as I've never even ridden something with skinny tires, will this be a nicer ride than, say, a <$200 fixie? And thirdly, is a road bike nice for commuting?
These questions are probably pretty noobish so feel free to direct me to where they have undoubtedly been answered already.
Thanks
from the ad:
Upgrades include:
Easton full carbon fork
Chris King headset
Ritchey Pro Stem
3T Bars
USE Carbon Seatpost
Campagnolo Record Crankset/ chainrings
Brand new (never ridden) 105 derailleurs, brakes, shifters
Brand new (never ridden) r500 wheel set
Also I'm 6'2", and the bike is listed at 56cm. Ad poster said he was 6'. I'm wondering if a smaller bike would allow me to have a more upright position? Or would you actually want a larger bike with a lowered seatpost.
After further consideration, I think I know the answer to these questions--definitely not the best commuter, definitely not necessary for me. But that greenish blue is soooooo nice
One last thing--would probably try to resell it at the end of the summer (so resale value is another big consideration), or if I really liked it, ship it back home.
Oh and does anyone know anything about this bike
https://washingtondc.craigslist.org/d...498655745.html
Also very pretty. Doesn't look as nice of a bike but I don't know why I have that impression
or this one:
https://washingtondc.craigslist.org/n...509816248.html
Also bianchi, but not as nice of a color (similar tho) and it says cyclocross (which from a google search seems to be the perfect type of bike for what I'm looking to do)
or this one:
https://washingtondc.craigslist.org/n...483641459.html
Apparently the eros is less nice than the veloce?
Last edited by dingman08; 06-11-14 at 08:43 AM.
#2
Newbie
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 591
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From: Toronto
Bikes: Fiori Roma, Currently building a Bianchi, Trek 330, formerly Monshee Nomad, Favorit, Bianchi Sport SX, Frankenbike
The right bike is the one that fits. There is a forum here for bike fit where you can first figure out what frame size you need. But off the top of my head, I'm 6', average length legs, and I find 56 cm one size too small. Just a rough guess you would need at least a 58cm. That would eliminate many of these bikes.
If you want a commuter, then a skinny tired race bike is probably not what you want unless your roads are very smooth.
Touring bikes had the mounting points for fenders and racks, which you need if you are carrying a longboard on the weekend, or something home from work. They are generally less twitchy than a race bike, not as fast but more comfortable. A cyclocross bike might aslo be a good choice if it has the mounting points( some do, some don't). Both tend to have stouter wheels and wider tires which a beginner may find more comfortable.
You may want to look even at a hybrid, with an upright bars but road tires similar in size to a touring/cyclecross bike.
If you want a commuter, then a skinny tired race bike is probably not what you want unless your roads are very smooth.
Touring bikes had the mounting points for fenders and racks, which you need if you are carrying a longboard on the weekend, or something home from work. They are generally less twitchy than a race bike, not as fast but more comfortable. A cyclocross bike might aslo be a good choice if it has the mounting points( some do, some don't). Both tend to have stouter wheels and wider tires which a beginner may find more comfortable.
You may want to look even at a hybrid, with an upright bars but road tires similar in size to a touring/cyclecross bike.
#3
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,642
Likes: 6
From: Cedar Rapids, IA
Bikes: 1997 Rivendell Road Standard 650b conversion (tourer), 1988 Schwinn Project KOM-10 (gravel/tour), 2013 Foundry Auger disc (CX/gravel), 2016 Cannondale Fat CAAD 2 (MTB/winter), 2011 Cannondale Flash 29er Lefty (trail MTB)
The second bike, the Klein, is a nice bike that isn't your size. It's a 50/51, and you should ride a 58-60cm.
The Bianchi looks like a good bike with good components. Brand new mechs is nice. The steel frame should make it a tad heavier, but ride more comfortably than a carbon or aluminum road bike. I'd consider that a good price for that bike--
--if it works for you. It has to fit. I'm 6'1" and my smallest bike is a 57cm road frame, pretty similar geometry to this Bianchi. My preferred bikes are 59-60cm; they fit better.
So this one may be a tad small for you. That could give you a more upright position because you won't have to flatten your back as much to reach the bars. But you'd still want to put on some kind of riser stem, probably.
Road bikes can be fine as commuters.
Pro:
Fast - you get there sooner
Efficient - less work expended to move the lighter bike, so possibly less sweat
Con:
Skinny tires beat you up on bad pavement
Harder to mount racks and/or fenders
The Bianchi looks like a good bike with good components. Brand new mechs is nice. The steel frame should make it a tad heavier, but ride more comfortably than a carbon or aluminum road bike. I'd consider that a good price for that bike--
--if it works for you. It has to fit. I'm 6'1" and my smallest bike is a 57cm road frame, pretty similar geometry to this Bianchi. My preferred bikes are 59-60cm; they fit better.
So this one may be a tad small for you. That could give you a more upright position because you won't have to flatten your back as much to reach the bars. But you'd still want to put on some kind of riser stem, probably.
Road bikes can be fine as commuters.
Pro:
Fast - you get there sooner
Efficient - less work expended to move the lighter bike, so possibly less sweat
Con:
Skinny tires beat you up on bad pavement
Harder to mount racks and/or fenders
#4
Zip tie Karen
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 7,005
Likes: 1,546
From: Fair Oaks Ranch, TX
Bikes: '13 Motobecane Fantom29 HT, '16 Motobecane Turino Pro Disc, '18 Velobuild VB-R-022, '21 Tsunami SNM-100
Why Bianchi?
I'm in your local market. Bianchi bikes tend to be overpriced, as do all bikes. So, why Bianchi?
The Veloce is the one that appears to be closest to a fit for you. The price isn't bad, considering the new components as listed. You will be able to recover nearly that in re-sale, if you don't beat up the frame's cosmetics this summer.
As a commuter, this isn't a great choice, but your ride is so short, that you'd barely be warmed up as you arrive. I'd say go right over and ride it. See if the seller can get it to fit you. You'll have a substantial saddle-to-handlebar drop, but you're young. So, your body will adapt. It'll be a quick bike, that's for sure. Fun for weekend rides and what not.
How do you intend to carry your longboard?
How will you protect this theft magnet Bianchi from disappearing on day one?
Why not get a rigid forked 90's steel mountain bike in a 21" or 22" frame? They're way cheaper, and will serve you better for hauling gear. There are plenty of these bikes listed all the time. You could get away with one in rideable shape for under $200. Slap on road slicks, a rear rack, some blinkies and proper pedals, and you're good to go...
The Veloce is the one that appears to be closest to a fit for you. The price isn't bad, considering the new components as listed. You will be able to recover nearly that in re-sale, if you don't beat up the frame's cosmetics this summer.
As a commuter, this isn't a great choice, but your ride is so short, that you'd barely be warmed up as you arrive. I'd say go right over and ride it. See if the seller can get it to fit you. You'll have a substantial saddle-to-handlebar drop, but you're young. So, your body will adapt. It'll be a quick bike, that's for sure. Fun for weekend rides and what not.
How do you intend to carry your longboard?
How will you protect this theft magnet Bianchi from disappearing on day one?
Why not get a rigid forked 90's steel mountain bike in a 21" or 22" frame? They're way cheaper, and will serve you better for hauling gear. There are plenty of these bikes listed all the time. You could get away with one in rideable shape for under $200. Slap on road slicks, a rear rack, some blinkies and proper pedals, and you're good to go...
#5
Zip tie Karen
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 7,005
Likes: 1,546
From: Fair Oaks Ranch, TX
Bikes: '13 Motobecane Fantom29 HT, '16 Motobecane Turino Pro Disc, '18 Velobuild VB-R-022, '21 Tsunami SNM-100
#6
ride for a change
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,221
Likes: 2
From: Minneapolis, MN
Bikes: Surly Cross-check & Moonlander, Pivot Mach 429, Ted Wojcik Sof-Trac, Ridley Orion. Santa Cruz Stigmata
As far as the bikes go, That first Bianchi is a pretty good deal with the parts on it, too bad it's too small for you. At 6'2" (which I am as well) you need a 58cm
So that rules out the Klein and 3 Bianchi, The Bianchi Eros might be close to your size (who measures road bikes in inches?) at 23" it should be around a 58cm. It's clearly being sold by someone that doesn't know much about bikes. Bianchi's usually have the frame size sticker right on the seat tube. IMHO $450 for that is a little spendy, but it's a pretty solid steel bike. If you could get it for $350 it's probably be a good bike for long time.
A road bike is great to have for a lot of reasons, but for a one mile commute, you could do it on anything.
So that rules out the Klein and 3 Bianchi, The Bianchi Eros might be close to your size (who measures road bikes in inches?) at 23" it should be around a 58cm. It's clearly being sold by someone that doesn't know much about bikes. Bianchi's usually have the frame size sticker right on the seat tube. IMHO $450 for that is a little spendy, but it's a pretty solid steel bike. If you could get it for $350 it's probably be a good bike for long time.
A road bike is great to have for a lot of reasons, but for a one mile commute, you could do it on anything.
#7
DC CL can be a crapshoot. We're a high-turnover area,so the used bike market is pretty robust. You might do better checking out the local co-ops:
https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=U...=12&dg=feature
Also,avoid the Big Wheel shops and the guys who sell at the local flea markets.
https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=U...=12&dg=feature
Also,avoid the Big Wheel shops and the guys who sell at the local flea markets.
__________________

C'dale BBU('05 and '09)/Super Six/Hooligan8and 3,Kona Dew Deluxe,Novara Buzz/Safari,Surly Big Dummy,Marin Pt Reyes,Giant Defy 1,Schwinn DBX SuperSport,Brompton S6L/S2E-X/M6L-X/S12 T Line


C'dale BBU('05 and '09)/Super Six/Hooligan8and 3,Kona Dew Deluxe,Novara Buzz/Safari,Surly Big Dummy,Marin Pt Reyes,Giant Defy 1,Schwinn DBX SuperSport,Brompton S6L/S2E-X/M6L-X/S12 T Line

#8
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Jun 2014
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Well then... like an idiot, i composed my reply on the website and my session timed out before I clicked reply
(autosave feature didn't help me for some reason--it simply restored a blank page)
Long story short:
thanks for all the advice everyone--I'm trying to keep it all in mind.
The bianchi veloce was purchased by someone else (it seems), which is probably a good thing, because I really just liked the color (and the shape was also aesthetically pleasing to me for whatever reason).
I'm probably going to buy this bike
Trek Mountain Bike
as it is 1) cheap 2) similar to the trek 930 I ride back home (this one seems to have a thinner frame and to be generally less mountain bikey, although it still has those wide tires that will just make for a less efficient ride for me as I will be riding exclusively on the road), and I don't mind the way that bike handles 3) cheap 4) looks like it will fit me (I thought for a little while what was more important, comfort or speed, and decided that neither mattered considering the distances I'm going to ride and so cheapness is now the number one criterion [the bike I've been riding has a 13" frame, meaning I can hit my knees on the handlebars if I'm not careful, and I've ridden it 5 miles with only slight knee pain afterwards])
although I'm still looking at some others, such as:
Kona Jake 56 cm cyclocross/commuter bike
Performance Hybrid. Teal. Near Mint. New tires, tubes.
CANNONDALE CITY BIKE - 18" (yeah... it's a nice color)
I'm also gonna go check out one of those co-ops tomorrow.
And I usually just put my board through the straps of a backpack, between my back and the backpack's back panel, so probably not going to look for a nice rack to put my stuff in (a rack for a bike that is).
Thanks again!
(autosave feature didn't help me for some reason--it simply restored a blank page)Long story short:
thanks for all the advice everyone--I'm trying to keep it all in mind.
The bianchi veloce was purchased by someone else (it seems), which is probably a good thing, because I really just liked the color (and the shape was also aesthetically pleasing to me for whatever reason).
I'm probably going to buy this bike
Trek Mountain Bike
as it is 1) cheap 2) similar to the trek 930 I ride back home (this one seems to have a thinner frame and to be generally less mountain bikey, although it still has those wide tires that will just make for a less efficient ride for me as I will be riding exclusively on the road), and I don't mind the way that bike handles 3) cheap 4) looks like it will fit me (I thought for a little while what was more important, comfort or speed, and decided that neither mattered considering the distances I'm going to ride and so cheapness is now the number one criterion [the bike I've been riding has a 13" frame, meaning I can hit my knees on the handlebars if I'm not careful, and I've ridden it 5 miles with only slight knee pain afterwards])
although I'm still looking at some others, such as:
Kona Jake 56 cm cyclocross/commuter bike
Performance Hybrid. Teal. Near Mint. New tires, tubes.
CANNONDALE CITY BIKE - 18" (yeah... it's a nice color)
I'm also gonna go check out one of those co-ops tomorrow.
And I usually just put my board through the straps of a backpack, between my back and the backpack's back panel, so probably not going to look for a nice rack to put my stuff in (a rack for a bike that is).
Thanks again!
#9
Zip tie Karen
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 7,005
Likes: 1,546
From: Fair Oaks Ranch, TX
Bikes: '13 Motobecane Fantom29 HT, '16 Motobecane Turino Pro Disc, '18 Velobuild VB-R-022, '21 Tsunami SNM-100
89 Specialized Stumpjumper Comp 22"
Be careful of size. You don't want to ride scrunched over. Check this one out, a 22" frame, but more $.
Be careful of size. You don't want to ride scrunched over. Check this one out, a 22" frame, but more $.
#10
I'm probably going to buy this bike
Trek Mountain Bike
Trek Mountain Bike
__________________

C'dale BBU('05 and '09)/Super Six/Hooligan8and 3,Kona Dew Deluxe,Novara Buzz/Safari,Surly Big Dummy,Marin Pt Reyes,Giant Defy 1,Schwinn DBX SuperSport,Brompton S6L/S2E-X/M6L-X/S12 T Line


C'dale BBU('05 and '09)/Super Six/Hooligan8and 3,Kona Dew Deluxe,Novara Buzz/Safari,Surly Big Dummy,Marin Pt Reyes,Giant Defy 1,Schwinn DBX SuperSport,Brompton S6L/S2E-X/M6L-X/S12 T Line

#11
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 96
Likes: 0
From: Cincinnati
Bikes: 1988 Centurion Le Mans RS (stolen!), 2009 Bianchi Pista (48-16), 2014 Gunnar Sport (Arrived! Pictures soon!)
So yeah, can't over emphasize the size issue enough. Good idea to get out and ride, don't just go by the numbers. I'm also 6'2" and ride different sized bikes based on their geometries. My fixed gear is a 59cm, but my new Gunnar Sport will be 60cm, and as you can see by a lot of people on this forum, a lot of them are riding 58s. My first bike was a 61 cm road bike that was super comfortable. Get out and ride a few of them to get a better feel, and remember to just use the posted numbers as guidelines (you can probably stop looking at anything around 56 or lower and 62 or higher for instance).
#12
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 5
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Oh darn so a 56cm Kona Jake would be too small? I managed to find one in perfect condition for 400 (listed at 450) and am very close to pulling the trigger. kona bike 2013
Actually it seems like for that line the 56cm represents the Large size, and I don't think I'm an XL (and I think I would err on the smaller side if between sizes). I guess my only question then is whether it is a good deal or not?
Actually it seems like for that line the 56cm represents the Large size, and I don't think I'm an XL (and I think I would err on the smaller side if between sizes). I guess my only question then is whether it is a good deal or not?
Last edited by dingman08; 06-15-14 at 08:42 PM.
#13
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 96
Likes: 0
From: Cincinnati
Bikes: 1988 Centurion Le Mans RS (stolen!), 2009 Bianchi Pista (48-16), 2014 Gunnar Sport (Arrived! Pictures soon!)
Oh darn so a 56cm Kona Jake would be too small? I managed to find one in perfect condition for 400 (listed at 450) and am very close to pulling the trigger. kona bike 2013
Actually it seems like for that line the 56cm represents the Large size, and I don't think I'm an XL (and I think I would err on the smaller side if between sizes). I guess my only question then is whether it is a good deal or not?
Actually it seems like for that line the 56cm represents the Large size, and I don't think I'm an XL (and I think I would err on the smaller side if between sizes). I guess my only question then is whether it is a good deal or not?
Try to find out some more about that bike from the seller: Are there any mechanical issues? How many miles on it? I mean, that price, for that bike; unless he rode it into the ground or :::cough cough::: it's stolen, I don't think he'd be selling it that cheap. I mean, it looks like he's taking the pictures in a pawn shop. Also not listing any details about the bike, no contact number... seems pretty sketch to me as that bike looks brand new.
Also, regarding the Large vs. XL distinction, I think they may be marketing it as large for an average sized dude. At 6'2" you're on the taller end of the spectrum. Most companies don't produce stock versions of bikes for people much taller than that. They make a few more sizes, like a 59 (which I think would, on paper, suite you better), 61, and 63. Only the latter two would I consider to be XLs (People over 6'2").
#14
No one carries the DogBoy

Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,320
Likes: 2
From: Upper Midwest USA
Bikes: Roubaix Expert Di2, Jamis Renegade, Surly Disc Trucker, Cervelo P2, CoMotion Tandem
People telling you 56 is too small are correct. I'm 5'11" with a 32" inseam and I ride 56-58 cm bikes. I have one 18" bike that feels like a 57 cm bike. At 6'2" I'd think you'd be 2 sizes larger than me, 58-60 cm on the low end. I would advise AGAINST the 56 cm JTS even though I've had a prior version of the bike and did enjoy it.
#15
Yes. You need to go to a couple shops and sit on some bikes to see what the proper sizes are for you. It sounds to me like you've never been properly fitted for a bike.
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C'dale BBU('05 and '09)/Super Six/Hooligan8and 3,Kona Dew Deluxe,Novara Buzz/Safari,Surly Big Dummy,Marin Pt Reyes,Giant Defy 1,Schwinn DBX SuperSport,Brompton S6L/S2E-X/M6L-X/S12 T Line


C'dale BBU('05 and '09)/Super Six/Hooligan8and 3,Kona Dew Deluxe,Novara Buzz/Safari,Surly Big Dummy,Marin Pt Reyes,Giant Defy 1,Schwinn DBX SuperSport,Brompton S6L/S2E-X/M6L-X/S12 T Line

#16
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
You're right--I've never been fitted for a bike and have no idea what I'm doing. As good a deal as the Kona Jake is (and from extensive googling it does seem like it is fairly common for people around 6' to ride the 56cm one) I think I'm going to just get this Bridgestone MB4 Mountain Bike
because it's really cheap and has new road tires. It looks a bit smaller than the jake even but the flat handlebars will make for a more relaxed riding position I think. It just seems like it's in good condition, and although it appears to never have been even a remotely nice bike, it'll do me fine. Thanks for all the help everyone!
Also contemplating buying the jake, trying it out, and then flipping it if it doesn't fit me...
because it's really cheap and has new road tires. It looks a bit smaller than the jake even but the flat handlebars will make for a more relaxed riding position I think. It just seems like it's in good condition, and although it appears to never have been even a remotely nice bike, it'll do me fine. Thanks for all the help everyone!
Also contemplating buying the jake, trying it out, and then flipping it if it doesn't fit me...
#17
Thread Starter
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Joined: Jun 2014
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I ended up taking this one--at 35, including a kryptonite lock, it was hard to resist. I just picked it up and as advertised I'll need to fix two flat tires (perhaps replace the inner tubes completely). I'll also probably get a new chain and maybe some slicks (or see if i can find 700c wheels that fit? I've heard that's a possibility), but otherwise it's in fine shape.

I also had one last question--has anyone heard anything about the bike in the ad listed below?:
Performance X103 Road Bike 1993
It looks to be the perfect style of bike for me and it seems to be in good shape. The seller just emailed back and said he'd sell it for 200. The bikepedia page is here:
1993 Performance X/103 - BikePedia
I could find absolutely nothing from googling it.
I also had one last question--has anyone heard anything about the bike in the ad listed below?:
Performance X103 Road Bike 1993
It looks to be the perfect style of bike for me and it seems to be in good shape. The seller just emailed back and said he'd sell it for 200. The bikepedia page is here:
1993 Performance X/103 - BikePedia
I could find absolutely nothing from googling it.
#18
I also had one last question--has anyone heard anything about the bike in the ad listed below?:
Performance X103 Road Bike 1993
Performance X103 Road Bike 1993
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C'dale BBU('05 and '09)/Super Six/Hooligan8and 3,Kona Dew Deluxe,Novara Buzz/Safari,Surly Big Dummy,Marin Pt Reyes,Giant Defy 1,Schwinn DBX SuperSport,Brompton S6L/S2E-X/M6L-X/S12 T Line


C'dale BBU('05 and '09)/Super Six/Hooligan8and 3,Kona Dew Deluxe,Novara Buzz/Safari,Surly Big Dummy,Marin Pt Reyes,Giant Defy 1,Schwinn DBX SuperSport,Brompton S6L/S2E-X/M6L-X/S12 T Line

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