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globie 08-29-14 09:44 AM

Lightning strikes commuter
 
Rider goes into cardiac arrest after bolt hits helmet

We've been having these rush-hour storms every afternoon here in St. Louis. It gives one pause.

Walter S 08-29-14 10:48 AM


Originally Posted by globie (Post 17081454)
Rider goes into cardiac arrest after bolt hits helmet

We've been having these rush-hour storms every afternoon here in St. Louis. It gives one pause.

There you have it, helmets are dangerous!

BobbyG 08-29-14 10:57 AM

Colorado Springs has lots of lightning. I will be more prudent in the future.

mgw4jc 08-29-14 11:32 AM

Would that have been a direct hit to the head without the helmet? Or did something in the helmet attract the bolt?

scroca 08-29-14 11:37 AM

I always wondered if the rubber tires would prevent grounding and thus lightening strikes. I wonder if he had a foot down or if both were on the pedals.

jrickards 08-29-14 12:07 PM


Originally Posted by scroca (Post 17081764)
I always wondered if the rubber tires would prevent grounding and thus lightening strikes. I wonder if he had a foot down or if both were on the pedals.

Metal cleats no less!

wphamilton 08-29-14 12:19 PM


Originally Posted by scroca (Post 17081764)
I always wondered if the rubber tires would prevent grounding and thus lightening strikes.

No.


I wonder if he had a foot down or if both were on the pedals.
It wouldn't matter. It sparks through hundreds of feet of air before it gets there - an inch more doesn't make any difference.

spivonious 08-29-14 12:23 PM

Yeah, if there's lightning, I either stay late at work, or seek shelter inside.

It probably hit his helmet because it was the highest piece. Here's hoping that he recovers.

gsa103 08-29-14 12:27 PM


Originally Posted by scroca (Post 17081764)
I always wondered if the rubber tires would prevent grounding and thus lightening strikes. I wonder if he had a foot down or if both were on the pedals.

You're talking about something that just arc'ed a mile or more. An inch of rubber is nothing. Cars get struck by lightning on a routine basis and they have MUCH thicker rubber tires. The reason a car protects you is that the current travels through the metal body acting as a Faraday cage. The reason he got struck could have been something as simple as riding over a manhole cover or some other item that would tend to provide a good ground. Air flow over a plastic helmet shell may also generate a moderate amount of static charge, especially if its not wet, making your head a prime target.

I remember watching a documentary on lightning, where they were launching model rockets to create strikes. The lightning followed the rocket trail to the ground, then went underground ~10m sideways until it found a good "ground", an underground metal utility conduit. The path was easy to trace because the dirt had been turned into glass, then burned a hole in the conduit before dissipating into the conductor. So even after a bolt hits the ground, it doesn't dissipate instantly.

RPK79 08-29-14 12:32 PM

Steel is real. #dangerous

alan s 08-29-14 12:56 PM

Don't think it was the helmet. Lightening travels the path of least resistance. Riding in a lightning storm, my guess it was most likely the air in the guy's head that was the path.

scroca 08-29-14 01:13 PM


Originally Posted by gsa103 (Post 17081922)
An inch of rubber is nothing.

That's what I always feared, and why I've ducked under overpasses as lightning approaches. Now that most of my commute is wide open, I don't know what I'll do... hope the livestock, deer and big horn sheep are better conductors, I guess.

ThermionicScott 08-29-14 01:31 PM


Originally Posted by mgw4jc (Post 17081750)
Would that have been a direct hit to the head without the helmet? Or did something in the helmet attract the bolt?

If you have any doubt that helmets are a lightning rod, check out this thread: http://www.bikeforums.net/advocacy-s...et-thread.html :D

TransitBiker 08-29-14 03:07 PM

That is really sad.

Thunderstorms are the only weather i actively avoid, because 1: I'm on a metal object 2: lot of overhead wires & trees & 3: I REALLY love being alive.

I really check radar in OCD style all most every time i stop on my phone to see if i should seek nearby shelter or continue further. 80% of the time, i get in ((be it home or a place i can wait it out for hours) when its drizzling before the main body of the storm hits. A few times i've been caught out - one time i walked my bike to shop in town & got caught walking to friends house at the local middle school - i always checked since then.

- Andy

mikeybikes 08-29-14 03:17 PM

I always avoid thunderstorms. I'll hang out at work for a bit and wait for them to pass overhead, or stop in a coffee shop or something.

I've ridden in heavy rain, flooding conditions, hail, and of course snow.

Lightning, hell no.

gregjones 08-29-14 03:47 PM


Originally Posted by spivonious (Post 17081914)
It probably hit his helmet because it was the highest piece.

This could get me rethinking drop bars on the road bike.:p

wolfchild 08-29-14 04:08 PM

Maybe a carbon fibre bike with all carbon components could of saved him, since it doesn't conduct electricity like metal does...Or did he have a camera mounted on his helmet ??.

Grey. 08-29-14 05:12 PM


Originally Posted by spivonious (Post 17081914)
Yeah, if there's lightning, I either stay late at work, or seek shelter inside.

This. I won't pretend to know his circumstances and I certainly won't criticize the poor fellow for being out in a thunderstorm, but I stay the f' inside or take the car if there's lightning!

Null66 08-30-14 08:46 AM


Originally Posted by gsa103 (Post 17081922)
You're talking about something that just arc'ed a mile or more. An inch of rubber is nothing. Cars get struck by lightning on a routine basis and they have MUCH thicker rubber tires. The reason a car protects you is that the current travels through the metal body acting as a Faraday cage. The reason he got struck could have been something as simple as riding over a manhole cover or some other item that would tend to provide a good ground. Air flow over a plastic helmet shell may also generate a moderate amount of static charge, especially if its not wet, making your head a prime target.

I remember watching a documentary on lightning, where they were launching model rockets to create strikes. The lightning followed the rocket trail to the ground, then went underground ~10m sideways until it found a good "ground", an underground metal utility conduit. The path was easy to trace because the dirt had been turned into glass, then burned a hole in the conduit before dissipating into the conductor. So even after a bolt hits the ground, it doesn't dissipate instantly.

Hope he comes out well. His helmet also provided some insulation. Might be a good argument (or a good sounding rationalization) for a carbon bike though...

Lightning is WILD! Too many variables to predict where it's going or figure out why it went there.

People sometimes still get hurt in cars struck by lightning. Sometimes the strike, sometimes resulting fire.


There was one apple tree outside a friends house that got hit twice. Shortest tree around, House was more then twice as high, maybe the tree was where there's a lot of soil moisture.

Watching thunderstorms hit the lake was absolutely beautiful, but a lot of dead fish would wash up if the wind was right.

Once while riding my motorcycle had a bolt hit both sides of the road. It hit far enough ahead to see the bolts, but the air was still lit as I passed through. That was spooky...

I think it's beautiful, but reading how most feel about it makes me re-think that maybe blowing off the odds is not a good idea.

klmmicro 08-30-14 09:06 AM

A lot of golfers might tell you different about CF in lightning prone areas. Depends on how it is made. Any graphite content and it is a great conductor.

People get hit just walking around in the open, so you do not necessarily have to be doing anything special to get zapped. As the saying goes, "When it is your time..." Hope he makes a full recovery.

no motor? 08-30-14 09:56 AM

I used to respect lightning when I thought lightning strikes were usually fatal. Now that I know the odds of surviving are much higher than I thought I'm even more respectful of it.

ericy 08-30-14 09:56 AM


Originally Posted by gregjones (Post 17082518)
This could get me rethinking drop bars on the road bike.:p

How about a lightening rod attached to the rear rack? For those of you that were trying to think of ways to make themselves look a bit more like a dork :D.

RoadTire 08-30-14 10:07 AM


Originally Posted by Walter S (Post 17081624)
There you have it, helmets are dangerous!

:popcorn

Seriously, I sure hope he fully recovers. I never really thought about lightning when riding, though you wouldn't catch me on the lake with a carbon fiber fishing pole. Ever felt the tingle as the air gets charged? Pretty scary.

PaulRivers 08-30-14 01:49 PM


Originally Posted by wolfchild (Post 17082573)
Maybe a carbon fibre bike with all carbon components could of saved him, since it doesn't conduct electricity like metal does...Or did he have a camera mounted on his helmet ??.

Lol, this is what I thought to - is this an argument for needing carbon fiber for your commuter, it's not the excellent electricity conductor that steel or aluminum is? (I think they used to make cheap wiring out of aluminum, they stopped because it doesn't hold up, but it does conduction electricity.)

TransitBiker 08-30-14 07:45 PM


Originally Posted by wolfchild (Post 17082573)
Maybe a carbon fibre bike with all carbon components could of saved him, since it doesn't conduct electricity like metal does...Or did he have a camera mounted on his helmet ??.

It needs mentioning that lightning will go to metal first, namely lightning rods or power lines. In this case the rider made a good enough path to ground. You really think that a lightning bolt, something with enough energy to power a small town for a few seconds is going to not simply spark out of rider and to ground if bike isnt metal etc? If there's enough potential current and not too much insulating properties, these amperages and voltages will use just about any material to get to ground.

- Andy

PaulRivers 09-02-14 11:36 AM


Originally Posted by TransitBiker (Post 17085466)
It needs mentioning that lightning will go to metal first, namely lightning rods or power lines. In this case the rider made a good enough path to ground. You really think that a lightning bolt, something with enough energy to power a small town for a few seconds is going to not simply spark out of rider and to ground if bike isnt metal etc? If there's enough potential current and not too much insulating properties, these amperages and voltages will use just about any material to get to ground.

- Andy

Seems like you're talking past the point. Lightning goes wherever there's the least resistance. If your metal frame is a little less resistant than a nearby tree, the lighting will go through the metal frame. If your frame is a little more resistant than a nearby tree, it will go through the tree. If you're on the top of a hill and in an area of less resistance in the air, well, you're screwed either way.

I think a little bit of it is tongue-in-cheek against the "carbon will assplode if you touch it" crowd though. With the absurd claims of carbon fiber being fragile made by the anti-anything-new crowd, it's kind of amusing to tell them an almost-as-absurd story about how you ride carbon because you want to be protected from lightning.

I suspect a metal frame material might make a very tiny, small increase in your odds of being hit by lighting, but it's very very small.

RLKester 09-02-14 06:17 PM

Lightening= take cover

Was struck by lightening while in my car, arm perched on the open window frame and as close to the brink of death I ever care to have, the burns healed, the respect is permanent. Do NOT think you are somehow protected by your bike, when lightening is near take cover! FYI structure fires are routinely generated when lightening permeates the ground, and travels along a buried utility.
Lightning Strike Fires Reignite Debate Over Gas Pipe Safety - NBC News

cycle_maven 09-03-14 11:44 AM

The bike material makes almost no difference- even if you had a glass bike, there is still a significant dielectric effect that will cause the the flashover to occur along the interface between the air and the bike. You can't predict it. The best place to be is inside a well-grounded Faraday cage. Failing that, inside a building is better than outside. Inside a car is better than outside. Away from trees and power lines is better than near them.

TransitBiker 09-04-14 08:56 PM


Originally Posted by PaulRivers (Post 17092687)
Seems like you're talking past the point. Lightning goes wherever there's the least resistance. If your metal frame is a little less resistant than a nearby tree, the lighting will go through the metal frame. If your frame is a little more resistant than a nearby tree, it will go through the tree. If you're on the top of a hill and in an area of less resistance in the air, well, you're screwed either way.

I think a little bit of it is tongue-in-cheek against the "carbon will assplode if you touch it" crowd though. With the absurd claims of carbon fiber being fragile made by the anti-anything-new crowd, it's kind of amusing to tell them an almost-as-absurd story about how you ride carbon because you want to be protected from lightning.

I suspect a metal frame material might make a very tiny, small increase in your odds of being hit by lighting, but it's very very small.

Nothing to do with carbon. I think i was pretty clear in explaining how lightning is a risk regardless of bike material. You can get struck no matter where you are if that particular charge found your person to be a good path to ground. Geologic makeup can make a huge difference too. Most concrete roads & some sub-grade road foundations have steel rebar in them, and i feel that was probably the over-arcing factor in this case (no pun intended).

- Andy

TransitBiker 09-04-14 09:06 PM


Originally Posted by cycle_maven (Post 17096058)
The bike material makes almost no difference- even if you had a glass bike, there is still a significant dielectric effect that will cause the the flashover to occur along the interface between the air and the bike. You can't predict it. The best place to be is inside a well-grounded Faraday cage. Failing that, inside a building is better than outside. Inside a car is better than outside. Away from trees and power lines is better than near them.

I think many people fail to understand the fundamental fact that lightning is a massive, extremely energetic arc & that arcing of power lines & things man-made is nothing compared to it. We cannot even begin to reproduce that energy save for a few microseconds in 1-2 energy labs on earth. Most lightning protection is about re-directing the current away from less conductive materials that may explode or catch fire.

- Andy


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