I currently own mountain bike shoes (clipless). I walked a mile home this summer due to a flat (long story, my dad wanted to fix the flat at home rather than where we were for some reason) in mountain bike shoes, and it was uncomfortable. Doeable, but uncomfortable. There's no way I'd walk any significant distance in them. I've gone grocery shopping in them - they worked ok, a little slippery. And I've used softer soled clipless - they gave me more knee pain as the cleat squirmed around (that part may not happen to everyone), and they're not as useful as clipless with a stiff sole for power transfer either. They also have a fashion problem sometimes, depending on what else you're wearing.

I can't be sure since I don't live in Europe, but it seems like wearing clipless being a fashion item (which seems to be most of the people going for pro-clipless for a 4 mile commute in this thread) is a fairly american thing. Whenever I see videos of people commuting in Europe, in the countries where bike commuting is a regular source of transportation rather than a niche racer-oriented thing like it is here, I don't think I ever see people wearing clipless (people who aren't racing).

There's a reason - because clipless for speed isn't useful at all for short distances. It's debated whether it actually improves your speed on long distances for racers even. (Not weighing in that it does or it doesn't.) It certainly isn't going to improve your speed if the max distance you ever ride is 4 miles. I guess you could debate whether you prefer the "connected to the pedal" feel of clipless, but I just can't imagine it being worth the hassle if the longest you ever ride is 4 miles. It doesn't seem like in countries where bike commuting is common, that people there are claiming clipless is at all necessary if you're not racing.

This is the most sensible post I have seen within the commuting forum in the last 12 months!

Bravo!

I have walked all day in my clipless mountain bike shoes and never experienced pain nor discomfort. I regularly shop in them, spend the first hour of work in them, spend the day at the aquarium or science center on the weekend. I guess this is another example of different strokes for different folks.

I do agree the shorter the distance of my commute the less likely I would be to switch to clipless if I had not previously. But my commutes have never been less than 11 km (~7 miles) and that short is once a week if I am lucky. I used to ride 50 km round trip and now average 35 km round trips everyday.

To run out to store in the evening it is easier to put on my clipless than tie my sneakers.

But I have gotten used to them and I would find it hard to switch away.

Completely agreed. Clipless is silly for four miles.

i've known a few folks who won't try clipless again because of bad first impressions. I suggest speaking with an LBS on your riding style. Many of us have cycled through many varieties, I started with SPDs but wasn't from me then gravitated to Speedplays then to Look and more recently back to Speedplays, after using the Look the Speedplays seem to have way too much float when off the saddle. However for MTB, I'm a huge fan of Eggbeaters. They are the easiest for me to disengage, but I know they are not for everyone.

I don't think clipless is silly for four miles. I actually think if the reason you are clipless is performance it is silly to use them for commuting at all. That said I use spd pedals commuting because it's the easiest system to keep my feet from sliding off the pedal when it is raining. Any performance benefit is gravy on top of that.

I use the shimano pedals that are platform on one side and spd on the other. I am always mystified by people who say they have to look down. I suppose I've gotten lucky with mine, but this has never been a problem for me. The balance of the pedal is that it's almost always spd side up and if it isn't I take my foot off for one revolution and then it's spd side up and you clip in. At this point I do it without noticing let alone looking.

I, too, have walked all day in my clipless mountain bike shoes. When I've had to, it's not a choice but because I couldn't ride the terrain. Most recently, I walked 8 miles of a 3 day 60 mile trip because I didn't have gears low enough to ride. That includes 3 miles of downhill. It's doable and no more or less comfortable than a hiking boot.

Let's nip this "clipless is fashionable" stuff in the bud. I don't wear clipless shoes...or lycra or any other bicycle clothing...because of "fashion". I don't know anyone else that does so either. I don't wear them because I'm "racing" either. Most people who ride clipless aren't racing either. We wear them because they are functional. You can say that they don't give any boost when you pull up on the pedals but I can feel that boost when I get out of the saddle to beat a light or when I take off from a light or when I climb a hill on the way to (or from) work. Hopping a curb or lifting the bike over a pothole is much easier with clipless as well. And when I'm dropping down a hill at 30 mph, I feel much safer and more in control with my feet clipped to the pedals then without them.

Are then needed for a 4 mile commute? Depends on the commute. Not all 4 miles are the same. It's 4 miles from my house to downtown Denver and there is a 300 foot drop from my house to the Platte River. Most of that 300 feet happens in 1.5 miles and it's fairly easy to do 30 mph on all of it. I feel far more comfortable with my feet attached to the pedals at 30 mph than I would without. Bad things happen at that speed if you happen to slip off the pedal. It's also easier, by the way, to climb back up that 300 foot drop with clipless.

I have another drop from my house (everywhere is downhill from where I live) that is only 149 feet but it happens over 0.6 mile. It's a 40 mph downhill...nearly 50 if you can pedal fast enough. But you probably can't pedal that fast without some kind of foot retention.

Finally, I fully agree with joeyduck. It's easier to slip on a pair of clipless bicycle shoes than put on regular shoes.

I find it kind of hard to believe that I bike year round in England and don't have trouble with pedal slippage. Perhaps, I'm just more athletic, who knows!

clipless are superior to flats
in feel and function

and the idea that clipless/flat combo pedals are harder to use
is nonsense
its not like there are an infinite number of pedal orientations
there are two
clip mechanism up
and
platform up
and you do not need to look down to see which one your foot is on
and if you cant figure it out
well
ummm
lets just say
you should be able to figure it out


the one thing I will say about combo pedals
is
get the shimano ones
i had the wellgo kind
sold under various brand names
and in a panic stop
i pulled up on both feet
and the mechanisms on both ripped in half
and when i showed them to the shop guy
he told me it was not the first time he had seen that

i use clipless almost all the time
because that is what is on my bike
and my commute is long enough
that i like to treat it as a ride and enjoy it
and i enjoy riding more
when using clipless

if i didn't have clipless
i would have no problems using platforms
especially if my commute were short
but i do prefer clipless

evidence?

I completely agree - I find the notion that people wear functional cycling gear for "fashion" reasons to be hilarious. I mean, come on - we look kind of ridiculous in these getups and there's no way I'd wear this stuff except for the fact that dedicated cycling clothing is incredibly functional and doing so adds to my comfort and my performance.

Clearly, clipless pedals are unnecessary for a four mile commute (or a forty mile commute for that matter). But they may still be desirable. My commute is, in fact, less than four miles. And I use clipless pedals on it because for me, I am safer, more confident and more in control when I ride with clipless pedals. I get that everyone is different, but I see zero downside to using clipless and plenty of upside -- I'll never go back to riding with platform pedals.

No, you aren't "more athletic". And, unless you changed the pedals on your bike from the "BSO" thread, you have toe clips. That's not the same as a platform pedal. Clipless pedals have the same function as toe clips without the annoying bits.

i have found that spiked
bmx style pedals are
also quite secure

I took off the toe clips. We can debate the more athletic component later but I don't have slippage issues between 20 and 130 rpm.

...yet.

1500 miles or so. I'm not about to lug a second pair of shoes around for an issue that happens once per year at most.

You've been riding for about 4 years now and only have 1500 miles? Or is that just 1500 miles this year? And you said "I don't have slippage issues between 20 and 130 rpm" so have you had slippage issues "once a year" or never? I've slipped off a pair of platforms once and that was enough to convince me not to repeat the experience.

And you don't have to "lug a second pair of shoes around". You leave a pair of shoes at work and wear the bike shoes when you are riding. If you go to dinner or a pub or so other function you wear the bike shoes, no one really looks at your shoes anyway. I've attended all kinds of meetings in bike shoes. I've been to all kinds of restaurants in bike shoes. No one ever said a thing about them.

Olive and black shimano CT-40s look great and have a flexible and flat sole with a half plate. I routinely wear them when I'm out boozing and carousing.

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=410890

clipless pedals allow one to optimize the contact patch between foot and pedal. they eliminate unnecessary movement and can decrease foot and knee pain for many riders. they also encourage the development of cadence and track standing skills. many cyclists in denmark and the netherlands would be better cyclists if they road clipless. it's kind of sad that two of the bikiest nations in the world are largely stuck in the victorian era when it comes to cycling technology. heck, i'm surprised that the dutch don't still use clogs when riding their beloved oma/opafiets.

Just did my first commute on oversized pinned pedals and it was a revelation, makes platforms, clips, and clippers seem ridiculous for transport cycling. Makes getting started at intersections on steep hills so much easier. I'm sold.

I was going to respond to acidfast, but you beat me to it.

What I was going to say, as he was asking for evidence to back up my statement that clipless are superior 'in feel and function'.

Well, feel is subjective, and users of clipless pedals generally agree, which can be seen above in this thread, and in many others across the inter-mation super-webway. Only the people who do not use clipless claim they do not feel better.

As for function, we have to define what we want pedals to do. And for most people, we want pedals that feet do not slip off of and that we can comfortably ride on. Clipless pedals are demonstrably better at this because they hold your foot with less degrees of freedom than any other type of pedal, and in the case of modern clipless, allow movement where movement is wanted, without sacrificing the security and stability of the foot on the pedal when riding.

Jeez, why can't different people have different needs and preferences? Is that so hard to believe and accept? Do you really see this as an argument to WIN?

It's important to consider the pros and cons of any decision.

You've listed the pros, now list the cons.

For me:

1. Requirement for two sets of shoes if one stops anywhere home on the commute that requires reasonable dress.
2. Additional cost.
3. Possible adjustment phase.

Also, spare_wheel is on my ignore list as (s)he doesn't provide useful discourse, such as that response with negative/abusive overtones.

You are correct. There are drawbacks, but they are convenience drawbacks, not function drawbacks. Every person must decide whether the advantages in function outweigh the drawbacks in convenience or practicality. I never said they were more practical, I said they are better in function and feel.

edit:

Except for the generalization about European cyclists being stuck in the Victorian era, there was no insult or negativity in h(is/er) post.

No kidding,

Having an open mind is what prompted me to try pinned pedals, now I have all types of pedals which fit their particular use best.....for me and my style of riding.

If I came here to be told exactly what to do and what to buy, how would I decide whom to listen to? Should I choose the person who argued the most strenuously?

Welcome to the internet!

I don't think that even makes sense. Some studies have said that even tour de france level pro riders do not actually gain efficiency with clipless pedals. I haven't been 100% convinced that's the case, but at best even for them the difference is small.

That's not to say their aren't other benefits - foot retention and handling.

Completely the opposite, if you have foot and knee pain you're far more likely to increase it with clipless systems that hold your foot in exactly 1 place the entire ride. I went through 3 pairs of shoes, 2 fitters, and doing specific exercises to eliminate knee pain from clipless, and that is not untypical. It's a lot easier to avoid knee pain with flats.

The foot retention might or might not help with cadence. Don't even see a benefit with track standing, in fact it makes it more risky if you do fall over that it's slower to get your foot down.

LOL, why don't you go over and tell the most advanced and societally used bike commuting culture that you know better than them and they're doing it wrong.

The people who mention they're commuting in the rain and foot retention have an interesting point. I'd argue that you can get the same grip for that situation with wide pedals with pins, plus decent shoes. But if you might have to change shoes anyways, then there's not as much advantage to go non-clipless. Like I said if you do longer or faster rides, it also makes sense to just stick with clipless for shorter rides as well and not switch. But most of the responses still sound like fashion to me - people do it because that's how other people do it, then afterwards try to come up with justifications. Which wouldn't really be bad if they weren't fanatical about it. I've seen the carbon fiber vs aluminum debates be more rational sometimes, and that's saying a lot.

For the few people that listed out practical reasons they used clipless, while saying they like them without getting fanatical that it's the only option or something, and likewise for the other people commenting on flats, thanks for your responses.

Good point. Reason seems to indicate that you should listen to he who argues least strenuously.

Not at all true in my case. Knee pain issues began because I have difficulty keeping my legs lined up so they track correctly. Getting clipless pedals to hold my feet exactly in place the entire ride has eliminated problems so severe that I couldn't ride for almost a year. I know that isn't the case for everyone, but it isn't true to generalize it for everyone.