The TIG welders in Taiwan are good at their job And,. since they work for less , more companies want to sell bike frames that cost less to Make
by Hiring them thru the contract Manufacturer that makes Frames for Surly and many other Brands ..

the rest is Marketing, lots of it for free, on this forum.

Gotta disagree with that. On the Cross Check alone, I can think of three recent colors that we've had very strong sales with in our shop, particularly with women customers. Robin's Egg Blue, Hospital Foam Green (how's that for a name?), and the new Dream Tangerine. FWIW, all of these colors look a lot better in person than they do on a computer screen IMO. I'm usually not impressed with their colors when I first see them online. :)

Two of my cf bikes are city bikes with clearance for 37 inch tires and fender+rack eyelets.

I have never seen anyone drool over a SCC... they are sensible bikes appreciated by sensible people looking for a sensible price.

When I was looking for a cross frame, I chose the Soma Double Cross over the Surly, because the Soma has vertical dropouts, versus the Surly's *********!!! semi-horizontal dropouts.

Nothing is perfect. Some people like to put fixed gears or IGHs on their bikes, for which vertical dropouts are ill-suited.

[MENTION=35519]well biked[/MENTION], I'm glad they've chosen more popular colors now.

I like mine a lot. If you're looking for a steel frameset with good tire clearance and rack and fender mounts, you don't have a lot of cheaper choices. Possibly the Fyxation Quiver, but I think that's about it. So in that sense it's more like the budget option than the dream of dreams.

at at first I didn't think I would like the green, but I really dig it. The bike shop doesn't even stock the black version, they said they never sell them. I can't wait to see the orange one in the shop.

I agree, when I saw the "hospital foam" green online, I couldn't believe they would offer such a lame color.....Then I saw it in person, and it really pops. Complete home run. Much brighter than expected. :)

FWIW, my all-time favorite Cross Check color is "beef gravy brown" from a few years ago. That was a color that had very mixed reviews in our shop.....but I really like it.

P.S. The new orange, "dream tangerine," is a great color, too, IMO. Everyone says it reminds them of an orange creamsicle.

Raleigh is pretty big and does steel. I want a tamland pretty badly.

I guess that's what has me puzzled. I get the "sensible bikes" and "sensible people" part, but how is $1,200 a "sensible price?"

Maybe I'm a dinosaur, but the GT Outpost I bought in 1996 for $300 got me through 4-5 years of almost daily mountain biking, has taken me over hundreds or thousands of miles of road all over the country, and still gets me to and from work safely several days a week, eighteen years later. I haven't priced bikes lately, but I estimate that this bike (or its equivalent) would be about $500 now.

The first thing many NY City bicycle commuters do is deface their rides to lessen their appeal to thieves. Others just ride clunkers to avoid having to worry. So why would a commuter ride a $1,200 bike to work? I'm not trying to be a smart-*ss. The investigative side of me just wants to know!

To be fair, I don't commute on my CC, I rebuilt a single speed Raleigh from the 80's to commute on. I use he CC for recreation and event rides. I also don't live in NYC, so I don't have to worry as much about bike theft, though it is kind of rampant in Houston. But my bike at work is locked in a garage that requires an ID card to get into. Even so, I'm not sure I would ride it to work being such and expensive bike. Though I do lock up next to a Scott MTB, a Domane, and an S-Works Rockhopper. :lol:

No. I don't consider it sensible. I always try to buy used which is why my commuter is a Trek 520. It is a reasonable price though, for say a mostly 105 group. If you want bottom shelf components on a steel frame, Jamis makes mores sense.

Lots of commuters out there that aren't in NYC. If I got to a point where I needed to deface a bike for security, I'd be ordering from Nashbar or BD. I used a beat up Kona hybrid while living in Chicago and Seattle.

Interestingly, the new CC seems to have linear brakes.

I ride a $200 modified mtb for my commuter. The Soma is my toy. It cost more like $2000 to build with the specs I wanted. Sure, its not cheap but compared to what you could pay for a bike its not bad. I also know I'm running quality parts I can trust in the middle of nowhere. Now that mtb... I wouldn't ride it more than 60km away from a source of replacement parts. :)

More like half the cost considering the crazy expensive Seattle LBS prices. And you get SRAM Apex (if it's good enough for Alberto Contador, it's good enough for you) brifters instead of the cheesey barends that the Cross Check comes with. I did the same thing and spent the money I saved on VO fenders, a Busch & Müller dynamo light system, a rack and a fitting with a doctorate-level physical therapist.

Yes, linear pull brakes in place of cantilevers, appropriate brake levers for the different brakes, a ten speed cassette instead of nine speed, 700 x 41c Knard tires, these are now stock items on the complete Cross Check, the color on this newest version is Dream Tangerine.

I commute on mine every day, and it's pretty beaten up. I do bring it inside during the work day though. the frameset only costs about $450, so the other $800 just reflects the quality of components they've built the stock bike with.

I have to agree. I think its a cool bike but a little pricy for what it is. Bottom line, Surly's done a good job of identifying their customer base and marking their brand. If they can charge a little more,, why wouldn't they? It's a business.

yeah why all the changes? can't believe how much larger tires now. mine came with 32s

I think the 10 speed thing is just to keep the bike fairly current (after all, higher end road stuff is now 11 speed), linear pulls are generally more trouble free than canti's for most people....as for the big ol' Knards, who knows, Surly does a lot of things that aren't necessarily normal. I've test ridden the tires, they are a lot of fun hopping over stuff and playing around on the bike, would be good for rough dirt roads, maybe some snow riding, even cyclocross in some conditions. Tires are easy to change, of course.

My commuters go in my office or in an electronic key-card bike storage area. I could also use the full-service bike valet but I prefer riding up the hill to work.

Nowadays, $500 is about the least you can spend for a minimally good quality bike-shop bike (with a few possible exceptions). $1,000 is what I would consider a mid-priced bike or maybe even $1,500. I'd say your perspective is a little off, and your own bike might actually be a $600 bike. Sure you get a better value when you spend less, but $1,200 is not where the price-performance curve bends sharply. I'd say that happens above $1,500 or $2,000. If you think it's reasonable for people to buy cars like a Honda Accord, then it's reasonable for some people to buy a Cross Check or something else in the $1,200 range. It's not super expensive compared with the spectrum of bikes.

So in my view, it's not an amazingly great bike, nor is it a rip-off in any way. It's a solid value. As I said before, it's not my taste because I prefer bikes that are a little lighter, and many bikes at that price point are lighter. But it accomplishes what it sets out to be, a solid, reliable bike, probable to last a lifetime. The design is smart, too, as it aims to be versatile.

Can you re-word this or something? I can't make out what you're saying. I mean, I think I have an idea of what you're trying to say, but I can't be sure.

nm I figured it out. It was all the capitalization, it was ****ing with my eyes.