I couldn't find them with internal gears

It is easy to get that impression if it is principally derived from reading posts on the BF Commuting list or other Internet sites/blogs dominated by cycling enthusiasts.

Less so when looking past the hip guys on their favorite steeds and hobby horses, and taking a gander at those using bicycles because they need to use them to get to their destination be it school, work, or pleasure.

Andy summed it up well in post #27 why the OP's idea of the perfect commuting bike doesn't work for me here in the suburban US of A.

My 12 mile commute is on roads with 40+ mph motor traffic, where I sometimes take the lane. (no bike lane or ride-able shoulder)

I can tell you from experience that the few MPH advantage that a speedier bike offers makes the experience much more pleasant.

So yeah, that different horses thing.

Agreed. My commuting route is almost completely flat, but it's 12.5 miles each way, and I wouldn't want to do it on a Dutch bike. I bet most Dutch commutes are much shorter than that.

My commute is 7.1 miles and almost all hills. Its been my experience that its more important to match ones bike to their riding style rather than usage as most bikes can do all things while excelling at a few.
A Dutch roadster works for me because I like to sit up in comfort, gliding over terrible surfaces and taking it easy on a bike that's able to take lots of abuse with almost no maintenance.

Good points, [MENTION=365305]kickstart[/MENTION]. I'm concerned not just with effort but with time. I don't know how much time it would cost me to ride a Dutch bike, but it might be as much as ten minutes. It currently takes me about 70 minutes each way, and I'd rather not add to it. But I think I will rebuild one of my bikes Dutch style this year, for errands.

Speaking from experience, taking a road or mountain bike and making it over in the "Dutch style" will produce an excellent utility bike, but lacking the geometry and extra 10" of wheelbase of a true Dutch/roadster bike, it won't have the unique magic carpet ride that makes them special.

The difference in speed between my Gazelle and my Ross Porteur is less than 5 minutes if I hit all the lights just right, if not there is no difference.

A fair point. But I'm not in the mood to spend money, so I'll just put swept back handlebars on my Super Course and maybe some kind of basket(s).

It would probably be similar for me, though adjusted for my extra miles. I typically don't ride very hard.

I greatly enjoy reading the cognitive dissonance of dutch/dane-o-philes who suddenly realize that not everyone is interested in a sensible city bike with IGH, dyno hub, integrated lights/fenders/kickstand.

PS: The perfect commuting bike is the one you want to ride.

Your Gazelle is heavy but then riders of roadsters don't care about it because the Cadillac-like ride makes you forget about the weight. There is weight but these bikes are not cheap gaspipe bicycles that are harsh and unpleasant to ride.

Dutch-o-phile vs Surly/Riv/Nishiki aficianado cat fight!

one of the local bike shops has had a bike much like that for almost 4 years now. Nobody is interested

I like all kind of bikes, I'm just too klutzy for fixed, and road bikes are too uncomfortable for me.

Here in my suburbs, majority of commuters that I've seen are riding mountain bikes and hybrids.

Same here.

I have a IHG 8 speed from bikes direct. Great bike. Affordable too. They have a few styles of IGH bike on there.

Another point I should've made;from what I understand,the Dutch keep their streets pretty clean. I've had several Euro bikes come into my clinic needing flat repair or rear tire replacement. Not fun when removing your rear wheel takes multiple tools and requires you to keep track of parts. One that's been into my clinic a couple times even required me to remove part of the chain guard to get a good enough look at the Nexus hub to adjust the shifting. Guess they'd never heard of inspection windows. Flats are rare for me,but no way I'd want a simple flat repair to turn into a project.

That's what they're all about. You can read most of the articles here. I've read a few issues;it's nice that they're showing something other than road and MTB's,but most of their reporting tends to fashion over function. Ok,that's a nice looking piece of cycling apparel,but is it waterproof? Windproof?

If only the manufacturers would just listen to you. As I said above;horses for courses.

FYI,the bike manufacturers make what sells. I've noticed numerous folks here who like the Euro-style bikes tend to complain about new stuff and hold onto their old stuff forever. Meanwhile,the roadies and MTBikers are getting new rides as soon as the latest-and-greatest comes out. If you owned a business,which group would you play to?

All that is true, but there are plenty of city-oriented bikes here in downtown Manhattan. It's a shame HUB Cycles closed, because that was their specialty. Still, it proved that there is a demand. I think well run shops could make a profit selling them. And it also proved that there is sufficient variety already present in the US market. HUB Cycles made Linus what it is today, having once been the biggest Linus retailer. They carried Biria, Van Moof, and lots of other brands I can't remember. Also, Breezer is a brand that sells practical bikes that look like they're made to last.

It was almost new after a winter on the salt filled roads of Minneapolis but the salt used in Copenhagen was destroying the frame after 3 months?

Sorry, I find that a little hard to believe. Perhaps the rust problems started well before you left MN and just weren't visible yet. Anyway, that is one reason my bike has an aluminum frame. Still, lots of people commute year round on steel bikes without them disintegrating. Leaving the bike outside in the cold might be preferable as it slows down the corrosion.

The traditional soft chaincase on my Gazelle has a snap secured window, can be opened further in a few seconds by unlacing a wire, and totally removable in about a minute. It does take an extra 10-15 minutes to swap out a tire, but the trade off is that that drive line maintenance is reduced to a biannual task, and besides, my last flat like most was repairable without removing the wheel.
The metal chaincases on my Robin Hood, and Flying Pigeon are a little less convenient,


I understand why retailers carry what sells best, I was simply lamenting the fact that we're the oddball market where there is less readily available variety.

[/QUOTE]so my question is: why doesn't a market like Portland or New York or San Francisco, etc. support the sale of this type of bike in the US?[/QUOTE]

Because why would you want a commuter that doesn't have drop bars?

I was impressed with the Breezer Uptown, not in the last a lifetime category of my Gazelle, but a good 13 lbs lighter. The Deal breaker for me was the hubs used are not rollerbrake compatible, and I didn't want rim brakes. Otherwise I was impressed with its quality and value.

I was frustrated by the fact than not a single dealer in the Seattle area stocked them, but that said, I got my Gazelle from Calhoun in Minneapolis because Seattle Dutch bikes no longer stocks Dutch bikes.

Because some people rather not ride than suffer drops

True story.

There are plenty of people who feel just the opposite. I'd much rather have multiple positions on the drops that be stuck with one.