ColinL

Let's consider what you wrote there. Unnecessary. Yes, that's true. We can ride singletrack on rigid bikes. Some like it, most find it punishing, and nearly all are faster with suspension. For gravel and CX, clearly, suspension is unnecessary.

But if you have a little suspension, it is beneficial? It is helpful? Can you ride longer, in more comfort, in more control, and care less about washboard bumps and potholes? Why would anyone install a Thudbuster seatpost? -clearly, they aren't necessary, and they're heavy.

My point is that it's all well and good to speculate, but I'm curious to actually ride this new Cannondale Slate, where it should be ridden. I would agree with at 40mm tire is much more comfortable than a 25mm tire, and it's much faster than a knobby 2.2" MTB tire on pavement and gravel. I have no doubt that a lot of the gravel bikes going out the doors of LBSes right now are only ridden on bike paths and pavement, and that's fine.

DirtRoadRunner

I would definitely like to ride the bike out of sheer curiosity. For most of my riding around here, I get by just fine on a 40c tire without suspension - and that includes some pretty rough gravel. If it does start getting really rough, I just raise off the saddle an inch or two and use my legs as suspension.

I suppose that I don't see the wisdom in running skinnier tires, but having to then install a suspension fork to make the ride tolerable. Why not just put on slightly fatter tires to start with and skip the heavy fork. Also I find that the biggest limitation for my gravel bike on singletrack is definitely the small tires - and I'm not sure a suspension fork on a 40c bike would allow me to ride over 3" diameter rocks and 4" high tree roots.

LUW

At that price point, I'm not sure who Cannondale wants to convince: the casual or novice rider, that will have only one do-it-all bike or is not yet sure what's the best for him/her, or the hardcore crowd like us, with more than one bike at home and a definitive (and proven!) list of what we like and don't like. Without a doubt the Slate is NOT a mountain bike, and it ain't a road bike either, so it should be what we consider a crossbike - basically a road bike engineered so that it can be ridden off-road without much suffering. The suspension is there to cushion the ride, so in theory you can go faster off-road without much pain. However, 40C tires are not exactly the best choice if you're riding off-road. A tire so skinny is almost better suited for pavement than dirt. But if the tire is more pavement-oriented, why have suspension? If a good suspension fork didn't way much there's no question about it, but if you want to keep the bike light, "roady", why not use fatter tires and a carbon fork? Fat tires and a nice CF fork would give you a comfortable ride on gravel and a decent ride on pavement.

Thinking better about the whole bike I'm not so sure if it's almost a solution to a problem that I didn't have. At least I personally don't adhere much to the thought that you can have one tool only for all jobs - I rather have different tools but each one of them being specialized for a certain task and that will get that specific job done in the most efficient way possible. I've been around the block a few times and have other purpose-specific bikes, so maybe I'm not the designated audience for this bike.

DirtRoadRunner

Something like a Salsa Cutthroat would be a more versatile bike than this Cannondale - with only a slightly higher weight, likely better off-road handling, versatility for bikepacking (I would not want to load up a lightweight Cannondale with any amount of gear), and potentially even better on-road manners at higher tire pressures due to the rigid fork. The price between the two bikes is comparable. If I was going to drop $3-4k on an adventure bike (which I would never do), I think the Cutthroat would be a better and more versatile option.

ColinL

I understand a lot of normal people who don't read bikeforums-- and even those who do, but only buy complete bikes and don't heavily modify them-- would see interest in a 29er HT frame that has the right geometry for dropbars.

But quite honestly there is nothing special about the Cutthroat that you couldn't do by simply researching hardtail 29er frames carefully, knowing what stack & reach you need, and putting drop bars on it.

My bike has a 80mm headshok with lockout, clearance for 700x45 tires up front, 29x2.0 in the rear, and eyelets on both the seatstays and fork. Remember those? Before everyone started strapping 30 pounds to their seatpost (god help you if it breaks! ), or trying to ride bow-legged with it a frame bag tucked in between their top & lower tubes... people used panniers attached to eyelets.

Cyclosaurus

My understanding is that the wider 650B tire ends up giving you almost the same outer wheel diameter as a narrow 700C. IIRC a 38mm 650B is the same diameter as a 19mm 700C. If that's true, what are you really losing here by going with 650B wheels?

FrozenK

Nobody is strapping 30 lbs to their seatpost. Those bags are for bikepacking, where you go lightweight. It is a compromise when you want to do a tour and still be able to rip down singletrack. As for frame bags, if you have to ride bow-legged you are doing it wrong. I have used a Revelate (well, mine is from when they were still called Epic Designs) for years and has never interfered with pedaling.

There are trips when you want bikepacking gear, there are trips you will want racks and panniers. Is kinda like car camping vs backpacking camping.

LUW

In all honesty? Rule #4 .

Seriously though, maybe it's just me, but I can't look at this bike and not think of road bike. So with that in mind, if you do want to put some faster tires on it (= narrower) you will loose diameter, and therefore speed and smoothness on pavement. As I said above, if I want to go on a off-road ride I'll take a 29er, but if I want to ride on pavement and/or gravel a CX bike is the choice. I don't think the Slate will do these two different jobs as expertly as other more specific tools that I have at hand.

And what about weight? I haven't heard anything about that, but with an Al frame + Lefty fork we can expect what, over 11 kg?

IcySmooth52

I like how it's crossing a new line between types of bikes like the gravel bike did.

Gravel was touring + cyclocross, and I think this new Slate could be XC & CX. A bit more off-road.

CliffordK

According to this article, 9.92kg (21.87lb). Not featherweight, but not bad either.
Cannondale Slate gravel road bike ready to hit the dirt ? details & actual weights!

ColinL

Thanks for the link; I had not seen that.

Based on my own bike, I'm sure that quoted weight is the top-level model. The entry-level model will probably be 25+ pounds.

LUW

Weighing 9.92kg isn't bad - in fact, a sub-10kg bike is pretty good in my book. For a dirt bike, however. And let's not forget that's the weight of the Ultegra version, which will set you back US$ 4300,00.

Like IcySmooth said, maybe what Cannondale is trying to do is crossing the line between different categories of bikes. That's fantastic, the more options you have the merrier. But in my humble opinion that will be a hard to sell idea at those prices if their target are seasoned cyclists, and I also don't expect to see a newbie dropping that kind of coin on a do-it-all bike.

LUW

Cycling Weekly UK also has a nice article on the Slate.

ColinL

Two types of people will buy this bike:

Fairly serious riders already on some kind of gravel bike, most likely rigid.

Newbies with money. A lot of newbies with money don't use their bikes much, and they eventually get sold. A few become serious cyclists. Bike shops need customers like this.

LUW

Without a doubt, newbies with money would buy it (they buy everything). But a hardcore cyclist, specially if he already has a gravel bike? I would think that if he wants suspension he'll go with the full enchilada and buy a 29er, maybe even a FS model.

NormanF

For people wondering how the new Slate's Oliver Lefty carbon fork would work on the road, here are the pertinent details:

"Although suspension is a boon on the uneven surfaces for which the Slate is designed, it can be a disadvantage on smoother roads and when climbing as the up and down movement reduces pedalling efficiency, so there’s a lock-out on top of the fork for when it’s not needed."

Yup, as I suspected there's a lock-out! So you don't lose pedaling efficiency on pavement and can enable suspension for the rough stuff.

NormanF

The bike is aimed at casual riders, not pros on the CX circuit. Its intended for someone who wants a do-it-all bike. Cannondale's problem is that for its intended target market, there are far less expensive options available.

ColinL

Not like this.

A hardtail 29er with a conventional suspension fork weighs more. (the lauf doesn't count, in my book.)

So there is exactly one bike like this.

IcySmooth52

The first year of a model or concept is always kept at a higher profit margin. Not % of MSRP, but just the hard $$$ ammount. So they're not going to offer it with Tiagra. Give it a year and along with other manufacturers being copy-cats, they'll equip it at a lower price and component level.

Same thing happened to 29" & 27.5" mountain bikes when they first came out. Also look at when SRAM made road components: Apex didn't come out until the second year.

LUW

Unfortunately, like with any system that allows your front end to be compressed, you do loose power when you shift your weight forward for pedaling. The big deal about the Lefty is basically lateral stiffness. The thing is absurdly stiff, to the point that you see the whole wheel bend to the side while the suspension is bottoming out but the Lefty is straight as an arrow. Because of this you get a more efficient suspension, since you won't loose "dampening power" to lateral or rotational flexing of the legs. All that flexing of the wheel also happens with regular fork suspensions, but since the Lefty is so stiff, the effect is more pronounced and you can more easily notice it - the effect is so evident that when I first started riding my Flash I was afraid that the hub and wheel would come to pieces. However, this pretty neat advantage is wasted on a bike that will not be punished on rough and technical trails.

But I digress, back to pedal efficiency. Laterally stiff or not, when you lock the Lefty it will still slide up and down, but with much less amplitude. You can't totally lock out a system that uses air for dampening because if you hit a big bump with the suspension locked, you will blow out the seals. Ergo, climbing with a Lefty locked is much better than with it loose, but you still wobble (and a LOT if compared to a rigid fork).

Another thing to consider is that a Lefty isn't the best suspension to be used when you want to deal with very small bumps, since it just can't (efficiently) absorb much energy if going over low amplitude imperfections. For instance, think of a dirt road with a washboard surface. If the ditches are deep, you really use what the Lefty has to offer, and your ride is much more comfortable then if you were using a rigid fork. But if the ditches are too shallow, the Lefty can't really absorb the vertical energy, so you will feel the buzz just somewhat less then if you were riding over the same surface with a rigid fork. If the Slate is a gravel bike, a bike to be used on smooth dirt roads and rough pavement, a Lefty could mean extra weight but not an overly smooth ride, to the point that maybe a regular CX bike with a CF frame and fat tires will offer the same smoothness.

Nothing wrong with all that, but not at that price for a Al frame.

ColinL

This is just ridiculous. Have you ever ridden a Lefty? They most certainly do lockout with enough force so as not to bob, even when sprinting.

LUW

If I ever rode a Lefty? Hmm... Let me see... On the first one I did 1500 km but then I sold it. The second was what, a bit over 3000 km IIRC?
Nah, never even seen a bike with only a half fork, that's ludicrous.

ColinL

Did the lockout function on your Lefty forks? It does break.

Because otherwise, I'm pretty confused. The Lefty, and many other air forks, can lockout quite firmly. They do have a blowoff, of course.

Hell, even my originally-sold-in-2002 Super Fatty Ultra DLR80 headshok has a firm lockout. And is obviously air sprung.


...anyway, this has little to do with the Slate.

LUW

Another example: on my commuter I have a crappy RST fork that can be LOCKED-out. And by that I mean when it's locked it becomes basically a big, heavy and rigid fork, but it's not air-dampened (I'm pretty sure that's not the right term to use ) like the Lefty. So it's easier to climb smooth pavement then with my current 29er (with Rock Shox Sid, that behaves like a Lefty in this department). With the Lefty and Sid, when locked, you get a pretty firm suspension, but on steep inclines, when you're really pumping the pedals, it will bob a lot.

Maybe if you're really light you can functionally lock a Lefty, but I really doubt it will behave like a rigid fork.

LUW

Air-sprung... That sounds better than air-damped.

But something just occurred to me. In one of the articles posted if I remember well the Lefty used on the Slate only has 30mm of travel, so maybe with this model you can make it more rigid when locked then what I had with the 2010 and 2011 29er Leftys.