Jamis Renegade owners
#251
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Nice stable! I've been waiting for someone who owns multiple steel models to pop up on the forum. What's your opinion on the ride quality of the 520 steel Expat and the higher end 631 Exploit and Escapade frames? Assuming the wheel/tire choice is similar is there any difference in feel or is it just a weight difference? I've loved the ride of my Expat and the addition of a lightweight wheelset/tubless setup transformed the bike, but I have always wondered abut the 631 frames. Also, is that a Fabric tool keg? How has it held up? I've looked hard at those, but was unsure how well it holds in place on rough terrain or if the mounting knobs wear down with use and develop play.
#252
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Thought I'd share in the Renegade love.
L to R: 2018 Expat, 2017 Exploit, 2018 Escapade.
All tubelessed.
Have 1x11 converted the Exploit and Escapade for simplicity and lower range of gearing over stock (ride a fair bit of singletrack on them and 1x was better suited for big gear dumps).
Also used some Wolf Tooth B-Rad bases to re-position the bottle cages quickly (two quick bolts to crack + tighten) should I need to run a half-frame bag & to fit the Fabric cageless keg as there was some clearance issues on the underside down-tube bottle bosses.
Loving how nippy they ride. Perfect for 5-15kg weighted touring and still agile, responsive and nippy for regular training rides. Used to have a Kona Sutra and Surly Cross-Check, both of which were comparatively lethargic unloaded (they were great with 25kg load, but that happens once every couple of years. The Renegade still rides well with heavy 25kg loads though). Normally a mountain biker - so a road bike I can do some intervals/tempo training rides and still hoon off on bits of singletrack in the corner of my eye is perfect.
L to R: 2018 Expat, 2017 Exploit, 2018 Escapade.
All tubelessed.
Have 1x11 converted the Exploit and Escapade for simplicity and lower range of gearing over stock (ride a fair bit of singletrack on them and 1x was better suited for big gear dumps).
Also used some Wolf Tooth B-Rad bases to re-position the bottle cages quickly (two quick bolts to crack + tighten) should I need to run a half-frame bag & to fit the Fabric cageless keg as there was some clearance issues on the underside down-tube bottle bosses.
Loving how nippy they ride. Perfect for 5-15kg weighted touring and still agile, responsive and nippy for regular training rides. Used to have a Kona Sutra and Surly Cross-Check, both of which were comparatively lethargic unloaded (they were great with 25kg load, but that happens once every couple of years. The Renegade still rides well with heavy 25kg loads though). Normally a mountain biker - so a road bike I can do some intervals/tempo training rides and still hoon off on bits of singletrack in the corner of my eye is perfect.
#253
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Nice stable! I've been waiting for someone who owns multiple steel models to pop up on the forum. What's your opinion on the ride quality of the 520 steel Expat and the higher end 631 Exploit and Escapade frames? Assuming the wheel/tire choice is similar is there any difference in feel or is it just a weight difference? I've loved the ride of my Expat and the addition of a lightweight wheelset/tubless setup transformed the bike, but I have always wondered abut the 631 frames. Also, is that a Fabric tool keg? How has it held up? I've looked hard at those, but was unsure how well it holds in place on rough terrain or if the mounting knobs wear down with use and develop play.
I just had a 650b wheelset built up, and it is stiff as hell and much slower than my 700c wheels.
Can't figure out how to get the pictures working with this new site.
https://i.imgur.com/BkPynNs.jpg
#254
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Nice stable! I've been waiting for someone who owns multiple steel models to pop up on the forum. What's your opinion on the ride quality of the 520 steel Expat and the higher end 631 Exploit and Escapade frames? Assuming the wheel/tire choice is similar is there any difference in feel or is it just a weight difference? I've loved the ride of my Expat and the addition of a lightweight wheelset/tubless setup transformed the bike, but I have always wondered abut the 631 frames. Also, is that a Fabric tool keg? How has it held up? I've looked hard at those, but was unsure how well it holds in place on rough terrain or if the mounting knobs wear down with use and develop play.
If you already have an Expat, not worth it to just upgrade the frame. You'd get more compliance changing tyre pressure, tubeless-ing, tyre choice, wheels and cockpit (more or less in that order). Only advantage with the 631 over the 520 was the rear thru-axle vs. QR and 631 has a higher strength rating vs. 520 though even 631 and 520 Reynolds tubing is the same density and a shade lighter.
Have only had the Fabric tool keg for 4 months but so far no issues and holds firm. Actually kept a small roll of Velcro inside the keg to wrap it to the frame should I eject one on the local single track loop (mountain biker, so don't shy away from bumps etc) but haven't needed to use it. You can adjust the how tightly the keg mounts by tightening the mounting bolts slightly more.
#255
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#256
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I use the 40mm Nano for this application. They are not fast on the road, but they aren't' as bad as some skinnier CX knobbies that I've used either because the center ridge does a decent job of keeping rolling resistance reasonable if you have enough pressure in the tires. They're nothing like a road slick, but I doubt the Resolutes would be that much faster on the road or more capable on trail. I ride a good amount of singletrack on the Renegade, and while I'm fairly cautious on the downhills, I'm not limiting myself to buffed trails or dodging every root or rock.I can definitely lead the bike over and not be surprised when the tires break loose.
#259
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Has anyone mounted a 28mm tire on their jamis renegade with the i23 rims? I think I'm going to get some panaracer gravelking slicks for faster road rides and some hardpack dirt. Curious to see what people think about this.
#260
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The ISO and ETRTO recommended internal rim widths for 28mm tires are 15C(mm), 17C, and 19C. 23mm internal width rims are recommended for tires 37-60mm. I put Schwalbe G-One Speed 700x38 tubeless tires on my Renegade Escapade's stock WTB Frequency Team i23 rims and I'd recommend them to you. This "speed" variant of the G-Ones has very minimal tread that works great (and silently) on pavement and has also been up to the challenge of a few dirt/gravel club rides I've been on this year.
#261
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The ISO and ETRTO recommended internal rim widths for 28mm tires are 15C(mm), 17C, and 19C. 23mm internal width rims are recommended for tires 37-60mm. I put Schwalbe G-One Speed 700x38 tubeless tires on my Renegade Escapade's stock WTB Frequency Team i23 rims and I'd recommend them to you. This "speed" variant of the G-Ones has very minimal tread that works great (and silently) on pavement and has also been up to the challenge of a few dirt/gravel club rides I've been on this year.
Last edited by Derekve; 06-10-18 at 08:17 PM.
#262
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So while I continue to wait for a 61cm Expat to become available (according to the LBS, we are now looking at sometime in July and do not have a firm date yet), I circled back around to the whole Expat vs. Exploit debate I was having with myself last month. While I can afford the additional $1000, I had originally decided (after much deliberation) to just wait for the Expat and save the money.
Now I am having second/third thoughts and find myself leaning towards just getting the Exploit after all as they are still available in 61cm. For those not keeping score at home, the extra $1000 gets me 105 instead of Tiagra, 105 hydraulic instead of TRP Spyre and 631 instead of 520. I think the rest is pretty much the same except for the paint job.
Anyone have any thoughts/opinions?
Now I am having second/third thoughts and find myself leaning towards just getting the Exploit after all as they are still available in 61cm. For those not keeping score at home, the extra $1000 gets me 105 instead of Tiagra, 105 hydraulic instead of TRP Spyre and 631 instead of 520. I think the rest is pretty much the same except for the paint job.
Anyone have any thoughts/opinions?
#263
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So while I continue to wait for a 61cm Expat to become available (according to the LBS, we are now looking at sometime in July and do not have a firm date yet), I circled back around to the whole Expat vs. Exploit debate I was having with myself last month. While I can afford the additional $1000, I had originally decided (after much deliberation) to just wait for the Expat and save the money.
Now I am having second/third thoughts and find myself leaning towards just getting the Exploit after all as they are still available in 61cm. For those not keeping score at home, the extra $1000 gets me 105 instead of Tiagra, 105 hydraulic instead of TRP Spyre and 631 instead of 520. I think the rest is pretty much the same except for the paint job.
Anyone have any thoughts/opinions?
Now I am having second/third thoughts and find myself leaning towards just getting the Exploit after all as they are still available in 61cm. For those not keeping score at home, the extra $1000 gets me 105 instead of Tiagra, 105 hydraulic instead of TRP Spyre and 631 instead of 520. I think the rest is pretty much the same except for the paint job.
Anyone have any thoughts/opinions?
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#264
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That's a hard decision, but I'd go with the Exploit myself. In addition to what you mentioned, you are also getting a rear thru-axle and centerlock hubs, and I really like hydraulic brakes. Also, you may find yourself wanting to upgrade the Expat at a later date, but probably not so much with the Exploit. I think the paint jobs are pretty sharp on both models.
#265
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So while I continue to wait for a 61cm Expat to become available (according to the LBS, we are now looking at sometime in July and do not have a firm date yet), I circled back around to the whole Expat vs. Exploit debate I was having with myself last month. While I can afford the additional $1000, I had originally decided (after much deliberation) to just wait for the Expat and save the money.
Now I am having second/third thoughts and find myself leaning towards just getting the Exploit after all as they are still available in 61cm. For those not keeping score at home, the extra $1000 gets me 105 instead of Tiagra, 105 hydraulic instead of TRP Spyre and 631 instead of 520. I think the rest is pretty much the same except for the paint job.
Anyone have any thoughts/opinions?
Now I am having second/third thoughts and find myself leaning towards just getting the Exploit after all as they are still available in 61cm. For those not keeping score at home, the extra $1000 gets me 105 instead of Tiagra, 105 hydraulic instead of TRP Spyre and 631 instead of 520. I think the rest is pretty much the same except for the paint job.
Anyone have any thoughts/opinions?
In the end, I am very happy with the Exploit.
Edit: funnily enough, all of this played out on this forum and you can see by scrolling up.
Last edited by D.zo; 06-12-18 at 09:45 AM.
#266
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Thinking about getting Jamis Renegade. Exploit or Escapade level (I don't want carbon), not sure if this $500 difference is worth it. Thoughts?
BTW, when do the new models usually appear? May be I'm too late to the game and 2019 models will come in two weeks or so?
BTW, when do the new models usually appear? May be I'm too late to the game and 2019 models will come in two weeks or so?
#267
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As for whether or not the Escapade is worth the extra $500, I am not qualified to comment.
I thank the rest of you for your replies to my question from yesterday. More specifically, I thank you for helping me rationalize getting a nicer bike, which is exactly what I hoped you would do.
#268
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I'd definitely go with the Escapade over the Exploit. $500 to get Ultegra R8000 over 105 5800 alone sounds worth it to me. The R8000 STI hoods and levers feel very nice. The ST800 brake rotors are also substantial upgrade. Plus you're getting nicer rims. The STs rims are pretty mediocre and aren't too robust. The Frequency Team rims should hold up well.
#269
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Yes, the $500 is more than worth it. I actually think they could have priced the Escapade higher relative to the Exploit, but they did not want to price a steel model higher than the lowest carbon one. If it were 105 R7000, I wouldn't say the same.
#270
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So while I continue to wait for a 61cm Expat to become available (according to the LBS, we are now looking at sometime in July and do not have a firm date yet), I circled back around to the whole Expat vs. Exploit debate I was having with myself last month. While I can afford the additional $1000, I had originally decided (after much deliberation) to just wait for the Expat and save the money.
Now I am having second/third thoughts and find myself leaning towards just getting the Exploit after all as they are still available in 61cm. For those not keeping score at home, the extra $1000 gets me 105 instead of Tiagra, 105 hydraulic instead of TRP Spyre and 631 instead of 520. I think the rest is pretty much the same except for the paint job.
Anyone have any thoughts/opinions?
Now I am having second/third thoughts and find myself leaning towards just getting the Exploit after all as they are still available in 61cm. For those not keeping score at home, the extra $1000 gets me 105 instead of Tiagra, 105 hydraulic instead of TRP Spyre and 631 instead of 520. I think the rest is pretty much the same except for the paint job.
Anyone have any thoughts/opinions?
#271
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The price difference between the Expat and Exploit is substantial. I don't think the Exploit is a good buy this year considering R7000 will be on next year's model and the levers are a substantial improvement. The STI's on the Exploit are a deal breaker for me. I had the stock Expat for a few months before upgrading it to RS685(similar to the shifters on the current Exploit but one level up) and Ultegra 6800. Those shifters were bulky and the hoods never sat right. Quality was not there considering the price. Then I upgraded to the Escapade with R8020 and all is well. If you're considering spending the extra dough, I'd step up to the Escapade. If not, wait for the Expat.
My current bike is Claris + calipers, so even the 5800-series 105s plus hydros is going to be a massive improvement.
#272
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Thank you guys for advice, ordered Escapade, now waiting for it to arrive! :-)
Meanwhile, what can be a good tire for it for riding mostly on bad pavement (NY...) and a bit on hard-packed dirt and gravel? No mud. I imagine stock 36 mm Clement X Plor MSO are not very good on payment though may be I'm mistaken? As a point of reference, on another bike I currently use 32 mm Continental Sport Contact II tires which seem to perform very good on dry or wet pavement, dry hard-packed dirt and gravel but feel very sketchy on loose gravel - bike starts to slide over the surface left and right, doesn't feel stable. So, something a bit more stable then these tires but without sacrificing performance on pavement? ;-)
Meanwhile, what can be a good tire for it for riding mostly on bad pavement (NY...) and a bit on hard-packed dirt and gravel? No mud. I imagine stock 36 mm Clement X Plor MSO are not very good on payment though may be I'm mistaken? As a point of reference, on another bike I currently use 32 mm Continental Sport Contact II tires which seem to perform very good on dry or wet pavement, dry hard-packed dirt and gravel but feel very sketchy on loose gravel - bike starts to slide over the surface left and right, doesn't feel stable. So, something a bit more stable then these tires but without sacrificing performance on pavement? ;-)
#273
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Thank you guys for advice, ordered Escapade, now waiting for it to arrive! :-)
Meanwhile, what can be a good tire for it for riding mostly on bad pavement (NY...) and a bit on hard-packed dirt and gravel? No mud. I imagine stock 36 mm Clement X Plor MSO are not very good on payment though may be I'm mistaken? As a point of reference, on another bike I currently use 32 mm Continental Sport Contact II tires which seem to perform very good on dry or wet pavement, dry hard-packed dirt and gravel but feel very sketchy on loose gravel - bike starts to slide over the surface left and right, doesn't feel stable. So, something a bit more stable then these tires but without sacrificing performance on pavement? ;-)
Meanwhile, what can be a good tire for it for riding mostly on bad pavement (NY...) and a bit on hard-packed dirt and gravel? No mud. I imagine stock 36 mm Clement X Plor MSO are not very good on payment though may be I'm mistaken? As a point of reference, on another bike I currently use 32 mm Continental Sport Contact II tires which seem to perform very good on dry or wet pavement, dry hard-packed dirt and gravel but feel very sketchy on loose gravel - bike starts to slide over the surface left and right, doesn't feel stable. So, something a bit more stable then these tires but without sacrificing performance on pavement? ;-)
In the shop with my credit card on the table, I had yet another moment where I almost bought the Escapade instead. Almost.
#274
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Thank you guys for advice, ordered Escapade, now waiting for it to arrive! :-)
Meanwhile, what can be a good tire for it for riding mostly on bad pavement (NY...) and a bit on hard-packed dirt and gravel? No mud. I imagine stock 36 mm Clement X Plor MSO are not very good on payment though may be I'm mistaken? As a point of reference, on another bike I currently use 32 mm Continental Sport Contact II tires which seem to perform very good on dry or wet pavement, dry hard-packed dirt and gravel but feel very sketchy on loose gravel - bike starts to slide over the surface left and right, doesn't feel stable. So, something a bit more stable then these tires but without sacrificing performance on pavement? ;-)
Meanwhile, what can be a good tire for it for riding mostly on bad pavement (NY...) and a bit on hard-packed dirt and gravel? No mud. I imagine stock 36 mm Clement X Plor MSO are not very good on payment though may be I'm mistaken? As a point of reference, on another bike I currently use 32 mm Continental Sport Contact II tires which seem to perform very good on dry or wet pavement, dry hard-packed dirt and gravel but feel very sketchy on loose gravel - bike starts to slide over the surface left and right, doesn't feel stable. So, something a bit more stable then these tires but without sacrificing performance on pavement? ;-)
Edit: Oh, and Terreno Drys in 35mm.
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#275
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Thank you guys for advice, ordered Escapade, now waiting for it to arrive! :-)
Meanwhile, what can be a good tire for it for riding mostly on bad pavement (NY...) and a bit on hard-packed dirt and gravel? No mud. I imagine stock 36 mm Clement X Plor MSO are not very good on payment though may be I'm mistaken? As a point of reference, on another bike I currently use 32 mm Continental Sport Contact II tires which seem to perform very good on dry or wet pavement, dry hard-packed dirt and gravel but feel very sketchy on loose gravel - bike starts to slide over the surface left and right, doesn't feel stable. So, something a bit more stable then these tires but without sacrificing performance on pavement? ;-)
Meanwhile, what can be a good tire for it for riding mostly on bad pavement (NY...) and a bit on hard-packed dirt and gravel? No mud. I imagine stock 36 mm Clement X Plor MSO are not very good on payment though may be I'm mistaken? As a point of reference, on another bike I currently use 32 mm Continental Sport Contact II tires which seem to perform very good on dry or wet pavement, dry hard-packed dirt and gravel but feel very sketchy on loose gravel - bike starts to slide over the surface left and right, doesn't feel stable. So, something a bit more stable then these tires but without sacrificing performance on pavement? ;-)
I have a 2nd slightly less burly wheelset (20mm internal rims) which I use the Panaracer GK's on. With the stock wheelset (23mm internal rims) I threw on some knobby WTB Resolutes in 42mm for hooning around mostly on singletrack/doubletrack or when I know I'm going to do a mostly gravel ride on proper ****ty roads.
My partner can't be arsed or want to purchase a 2nd wheelset so she uses the Clement MSO's in 36mm for a 50/50 road and dirt mix. They are a decent tyre for what you're after - though she will replace them with the Panaracer GK in 38mm once they're worn out as she doesn't hit singletrack much. I didn't feel the knobs really did much on relatively smooth dirt though psychologically they look gripper (which is probably why there are so many intermediately knobbed tyres specced on bikes).
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