Gravel Bike Geometry Analysis Paralysis
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Gravel Bike Geometry Analysis Paralysis
I've been riding for a long time, road, mountain, etc. My first grownup bike was a Lemond I bought it 2002 brand new. After that bike, I mostly bought bikes based on how light they were, what components came on it, and how stiff the BB was. I bought a cross bike in 2015 so I could do some cx racing and ride some gravel, I didn't do much research other than looking at reach and stack to see what would fit. Turns out the bike I got is sort of a transition bike from the old school (high/steep) CX to the newer gravel style (long/low/slack) CX bikes. Its a Kona Jake the Snake, and it has a fairly high BB - 63mm and a a fairly short fork offset - 45mm, but a fairly slack HTA - 71.5 and short stays - 425mm
It handled the flatlands/rolling hills where I used to live pretty well. There's a ~15 mile gravel loop by the airport in Raleigh where I used to live, and there's a twisty decent that's a LOT of fun. The Kona handles fantastically on this loop. I suspect that the long trail of the front end is somewhat responsible, its stable and tips in really nice. However, I moved to the mountains a couple years ago, and I'm finding myself doing a lot of long (30ish minutes or so) gravel climbs at 8-9 mph. The Kona is absolutely terrible at this, it wanders all over the place at low speeds. Again, I suspect that trail from the slackish HTA and low fork offset is to blame, ie, steering flop. Its a blast coming down the other side though, it descends better than most XC hardtails do.
So with that in mind, I've been passively looking for a new gravelly/cyclocrossy bike. I want it to hold a line like my road bike while climbing, but descend the other side like my Kona. I also like light, since I climb a lot. The issue I'm having is that geometry is all over the map for gravel bikes. I like the light weight of the Specialized Crux, but would the 72.5 HTA with a 50mm fork offset (for 59mm of trail!) be too sketchy on fast descents? I see that the Orbea Terra uses a 70.5 HTA with a 50mm offset for an extra 10mm off trail, and the Giant Revolt has a whopping 75mm of trail in some sizes!
Or is the answer something in the middle? A few years ago, I bought a Toyota Tacoma because I thought it would be a perfect "middle" type vehicle, I could haul with it, but I could park it in the city easily, road trip with it, etc. I hated it! It got crappy gas mileage, rode and handled badly, couldn't carry a load of compost without the axle sitting on the frame, etc. Basically, it had all of the downsides of a full size truck with none of the upsides of a car. I traded it after 6 months and lost thousands of dollars. I'm worried that if I go with a fence sitter like a Santa Cruz Stigmata or an Ibis Hakka, I'm going to have the worst of both worlds like the Tacoma.
Thoughts? Am I overthinking this? Bikes are so much more expensive these days and I'm worried about spending thousands of dollars and then hating what I buy.
It handled the flatlands/rolling hills where I used to live pretty well. There's a ~15 mile gravel loop by the airport in Raleigh where I used to live, and there's a twisty decent that's a LOT of fun. The Kona handles fantastically on this loop. I suspect that the long trail of the front end is somewhat responsible, its stable and tips in really nice. However, I moved to the mountains a couple years ago, and I'm finding myself doing a lot of long (30ish minutes or so) gravel climbs at 8-9 mph. The Kona is absolutely terrible at this, it wanders all over the place at low speeds. Again, I suspect that trail from the slackish HTA and low fork offset is to blame, ie, steering flop. Its a blast coming down the other side though, it descends better than most XC hardtails do.
So with that in mind, I've been passively looking for a new gravelly/cyclocrossy bike. I want it to hold a line like my road bike while climbing, but descend the other side like my Kona. I also like light, since I climb a lot. The issue I'm having is that geometry is all over the map for gravel bikes. I like the light weight of the Specialized Crux, but would the 72.5 HTA with a 50mm fork offset (for 59mm of trail!) be too sketchy on fast descents? I see that the Orbea Terra uses a 70.5 HTA with a 50mm offset for an extra 10mm off trail, and the Giant Revolt has a whopping 75mm of trail in some sizes!
Or is the answer something in the middle? A few years ago, I bought a Toyota Tacoma because I thought it would be a perfect "middle" type vehicle, I could haul with it, but I could park it in the city easily, road trip with it, etc. I hated it! It got crappy gas mileage, rode and handled badly, couldn't carry a load of compost without the axle sitting on the frame, etc. Basically, it had all of the downsides of a full size truck with none of the upsides of a car. I traded it after 6 months and lost thousands of dollars. I'm worried that if I go with a fence sitter like a Santa Cruz Stigmata or an Ibis Hakka, I'm going to have the worst of both worlds like the Tacoma.
Thoughts? Am I overthinking this? Bikes are so much more expensive these days and I'm worried about spending thousands of dollars and then hating what I buy.
#2
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: VA
Posts: 1,437
Bikes: SuperSix Evo | Revolt
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 733 Post(s)
Liked 815 Times
in
414 Posts
Love the geo of my Revolt, for climbing and descending, on and off road. If you get the higher end models, the weight is pretty decent, my friend's Advanced Pro Force Revolt weighs 18lbs. Also, all the frames are the same, so if there's a color you like better, you can get a lower end model and build it up to the weight you want.
#3
Full Member
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: California
Posts: 211
Bikes: 2020 Lynskey GR300, 1987 Diamondback Ascent, 1991 Skykomish Marble Point, 1994 Specialized Stumpjumper FSR, 1996 Specialized Stumpjumper M2 FS, 1992 GT Karakoram
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 69 Post(s)
Liked 226 Times
in
84 Posts
I've been riding for a long time, road, mountain, etc. My first grownup bike was a Lemond I bought it 2002 brand new. After that bike, I mostly bought bikes based on how light they were, what components came on it, and how stiff the BB was. I bought a cross bike in 2015 so I could do some cx racing and ride some gravel, I didn't do much research other than looking at reach and stack to see what would fit. Turns out the bike I got is sort of a transition bike from the old school (high/steep) CX to the newer gravel style (long/low/slack) CX bikes. Its a Kona Jake the Snake, and it has a fairly high BB - 63mm and a a fairly short fork offset - 45mm, but a fairly slack HTA - 71.5 and short stays - 425mm
It handled the flatlands/rolling hills where I used to live pretty well. There's a ~15 mile gravel loop by the airport in Raleigh where I used to live, and there's a twisty decent that's a LOT of fun. The Kona handles fantastically on this loop. I suspect that the long trail of the front end is somewhat responsible, its stable and tips in really nice. However, I moved to the mountains a couple years ago, and I'm finding myself doing a lot of long (30ish minutes or so) gravel climbs at 8-9 mph. The Kona is absolutely terrible at this, it wanders all over the place at low speeds. Again, I suspect that trail from the slackish HTA and low fork offset is to blame, ie, steering flop. Its a blast coming down the other side though, it descends better than most XC hardtails do.
So with that in mind, I've been passively looking for a new gravelly/cyclocrossy bike. I want it to hold a line like my road bike while climbing, but descend the other side like my Kona. I also like light, since I climb a lot. The issue I'm having is that geometry is all over the map for gravel bikes. I like the light weight of the Specialized Crux, but would the 72.5 HTA with a 50mm fork offset (for 59mm of trail!) be too sketchy on fast descents? I see that the Orbea Terra uses a 70.5 HTA with a 50mm offset for an extra 10mm off trail, and the Giant Revolt has a whopping 75mm of trail in some sizes!
Or is the answer something in the middle? A few years ago, I bought a Toyota Tacoma because I thought it would be a perfect "middle" type vehicle, I could haul with it, but I could park it in the city easily, road trip with it, etc. I hated it! It got crappy gas mileage, rode and handled badly, couldn't carry a load of compost without the axle sitting on the frame, etc. Basically, it had all of the downsides of a full size truck with none of the upsides of a car. I traded it after 6 months and lost thousands of dollars. I'm worried that if I go with a fence sitter like a Santa Cruz Stigmata or an Ibis Hakka, I'm going to have the worst of both worlds like the Tacoma.
Thoughts? Am I overthinking this? Bikes are so much more expensive these days and I'm worried about spending thousands of dollars and then hating what I buy.
It handled the flatlands/rolling hills where I used to live pretty well. There's a ~15 mile gravel loop by the airport in Raleigh where I used to live, and there's a twisty decent that's a LOT of fun. The Kona handles fantastically on this loop. I suspect that the long trail of the front end is somewhat responsible, its stable and tips in really nice. However, I moved to the mountains a couple years ago, and I'm finding myself doing a lot of long (30ish minutes or so) gravel climbs at 8-9 mph. The Kona is absolutely terrible at this, it wanders all over the place at low speeds. Again, I suspect that trail from the slackish HTA and low fork offset is to blame, ie, steering flop. Its a blast coming down the other side though, it descends better than most XC hardtails do.
So with that in mind, I've been passively looking for a new gravelly/cyclocrossy bike. I want it to hold a line like my road bike while climbing, but descend the other side like my Kona. I also like light, since I climb a lot. The issue I'm having is that geometry is all over the map for gravel bikes. I like the light weight of the Specialized Crux, but would the 72.5 HTA with a 50mm fork offset (for 59mm of trail!) be too sketchy on fast descents? I see that the Orbea Terra uses a 70.5 HTA with a 50mm offset for an extra 10mm off trail, and the Giant Revolt has a whopping 75mm of trail in some sizes!
Or is the answer something in the middle? A few years ago, I bought a Toyota Tacoma because I thought it would be a perfect "middle" type vehicle, I could haul with it, but I could park it in the city easily, road trip with it, etc. I hated it! It got crappy gas mileage, rode and handled badly, couldn't carry a load of compost without the axle sitting on the frame, etc. Basically, it had all of the downsides of a full size truck with none of the upsides of a car. I traded it after 6 months and lost thousands of dollars. I'm worried that if I go with a fence sitter like a Santa Cruz Stigmata or an Ibis Hakka, I'm going to have the worst of both worlds like the Tacoma.
Thoughts? Am I overthinking this? Bikes are so much more expensive these days and I'm worried about spending thousands of dollars and then hating what I buy.
I used it to compare different brands and sizes.
Last edited by Wilbur76; 07-21-20 at 10:23 AM. Reason: Adding url
#4
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Michigan
Posts: 4,863
Bikes: too many of all kinds
Mentioned: 35 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1147 Post(s)
Liked 415 Times
in
335 Posts
Wow, good question. I like the Tacoma analogy.
You may be overthinking it.
I’ve never heard someone saying the Jake had too much flop. Its no where near as slack as today’s mountain bikes. 71.5 isn’t slack by “modern” mountain bike or gravel bike standards – but slack compared to CX or road bike standards (medium frame)
Generally, the long/low/slack is good for descending (stability), but not necessarily for climbing. I have a bike like the crux, and it climbs like it has a motor on it compared to a mountain bike. Its amazing. I’d say the short wheel base and trail hold it back on fast decents.
Ultimately – go to your LBS and get some demo or rental bikes that have geometry like you are interested in.
Personally, I’m happy with 2 wheel sets.
32mm tires give me snappy handling, then fatter tires (up to 50-54 in the front) give me more trail, more pneumatic trail, and just slower handling if I have knobs (and as I tend to go bigger on the front, that reduces HTA & my trail even more).
You may be overthinking it.
I’ve never heard someone saying the Jake had too much flop. Its no where near as slack as today’s mountain bikes. 71.5 isn’t slack by “modern” mountain bike or gravel bike standards – but slack compared to CX or road bike standards (medium frame)
Generally, the long/low/slack is good for descending (stability), but not necessarily for climbing. I have a bike like the crux, and it climbs like it has a motor on it compared to a mountain bike. Its amazing. I’d say the short wheel base and trail hold it back on fast decents.
Ultimately – go to your LBS and get some demo or rental bikes that have geometry like you are interested in.
Personally, I’m happy with 2 wheel sets.
32mm tires give me snappy handling, then fatter tires (up to 50-54 in the front) give me more trail, more pneumatic trail, and just slower handling if I have knobs (and as I tend to go bigger on the front, that reduces HTA & my trail even more).
#5
Senior Member
Thread Starter
https://drive.google.com/file/d/11MM...ew?usp=sharing
I've even calculated how the spacers and stem angle effect the stack and reach. Am I sick? Possibly.
I'd like to try a Stigmata and a Crux too, maybe a new Kona Major Jake too, which is just an updated geometry, carbon version of my current bike.
Last edited by Phatman; 07-21-20 at 02:15 PM.
#6
Sunshine
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 16,673
Bikes: '18 class built steel roadbike, '19 Fairlight Secan, '88 Schwinn Premis , Black Mountain Cycles Monstercross V4, '89 Novara Trionfo
Mentioned: 123 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11030 Post(s)
Liked 7,576 Times
in
4,226 Posts
My gravel bike has 58mm of trail. I dont find it to be twitchy or sketchy. I dont think about the steering input when climbing or descending, its quite neutral to me, i guess.
admittedly, i dont have 30min climbs or the descents that follow. Mine are a bunch of 5 min climbs over and over.
Perhaps if my descents were minutes on end instead of seconds, I might want a different trail measurement.
The bottom bracket height on your kona is classic CX high, but neednt be for gravel. You can get something at 75m or so and sit in the bike more than on the bike. Its a good feeling.
admittedly, i dont have 30min climbs or the descents that follow. Mine are a bunch of 5 min climbs over and over.
Perhaps if my descents were minutes on end instead of seconds, I might want a different trail measurement.
The bottom bracket height on your kona is classic CX high, but neednt be for gravel. You can get something at 75m or so and sit in the bike more than on the bike. Its a good feeling.
#7
Senior Member
I think you should check out the YouTube channel Path Less Pedaled. It's about gravel biking and bike packing, and you can find reviews of many, many bikes and geometry explanations.
#8
serious cyclist
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Austin
Posts: 21,147
Bikes: S1, R2, P2
Mentioned: 115 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9334 Post(s)
Liked 3,679 Times
in
2,026 Posts
I have no feedback on the geometry, but that situation you hit with the Tacoma is what happened to me when I tried to get hot hatches to be useful but fun to drive - they weren't enough of either. Now I drive a GX460 that can take the bikes upright, and I've pretty much given up on sportiness for now.
#9
Senior Member
Phatman,
Crux is a very close geo match to your Kona. Lower bb drop is good for a little more stability.
You could always consider swapping in an angleset from Works Components UK, to get the trail close to what you're chasing.
I also like a light build. Going over you list, I'd say there's more options out there if you have a decent budget.
If buying a complete you may need to tweak the low end for climbing.
Have you also considered if you may need/want to run a larger tyre than Crux specs?
Crux is a very close geo match to your Kona. Lower bb drop is good for a little more stability.
You could always consider swapping in an angleset from Works Components UK, to get the trail close to what you're chasing.
I also like a light build. Going over you list, I'd say there's more options out there if you have a decent budget.
If buying a complete you may need to tweak the low end for climbing.
Have you also considered if you may need/want to run a larger tyre than Crux specs?
#10
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Baltimore/DC
Posts: 2,930
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 170 Post(s)
Liked 156 Times
in
99 Posts
I compared my Miyata 1000 touring bike to a few gravel bikes. I was surprised how similar their geometry are. If I could put 40-42's on it I wouldn't need a gravel bike.
Thanks for posting, makes online buying easier.
#11
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Baltimore/DC
Posts: 2,930
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 170 Post(s)
Liked 156 Times
in
99 Posts
I stand corrected on many gravel bikes, just some are similar and the stack is often different. Plus some gravel frames seem based more on mnt bike frames.
#12
Randomhead
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Happy Valley, Pennsylvania
Posts: 24,419
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked 3,720 Times
in
2,537 Posts
I dislike bikes with a lot of flop. I suspect a bike with 70.5hta and 50mm of rake is going to be annoying while standing on a climb. My understanding of why MTB's designers have been moving to slacker angles is because when the suspension fork is compressed, the HTA can get pretty steep. That doesn't happen on a gravel bike.
#13
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 209
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 86 Post(s)
Liked 51 Times
in
35 Posts
I built my Tacoma to be a real truck, 8-pack leafs replacing the underbuilt 3-leaf crud Toyota puts on all their rear axles. Skids, winch, sliders, coilover fronts with high articulation UCAs and no sway bar, +1" E-range tires, 24" of flex on a ramp etc. Still gets better mileage than full size trucks due in part to the composite bed that's 1000 lbs lighter than a steel bed. I guess I don't get why anyone would expect a truck to handle like a car, or what it has to do with bikes.
Oh right bikes - I personally don't tend to get a shuttle or ski lift to the top of my MTB trails; I like to pedal. So I have disliked trail/enduro/DH MTBs from the start, who cares if I can huck walls or blast through rock gardens if the majority of my time in the saddle is loathsome on a long-low-slack gravity sled that can't steer. I have more fun using the brakes a little more on a scalpel that can steer around obstacles, instead of a 30+ lb sledgehammer that soaks them up. All the same logic applies to gravel bikes, I prefer something that's basically an endurance road bike with big tire clearance. Currently happy with 420mm chainstays, 72/73 HT/ST, 73mm BB drop, 51mm fork offset - and, critically, a dropper post so I can put my center of mass where I won't go OTB at the first bump.
I don't get why droppers haven't completely dominated gravel yet, as it really opens up the design space to have a crisp handling bike that's safer to descend. I have a MTB friend who told me he'd rather give up his front brake before his dropper, and while that's obviously an exaggeration, he has a point. Just wanted to throw that out there since I hadn't seen it mentioned.
Of course as always this is extremely terrain dependent, and what works for me on my terrain could be a sick joke for you on your terrain.
Oh right bikes - I personally don't tend to get a shuttle or ski lift to the top of my MTB trails; I like to pedal. So I have disliked trail/enduro/DH MTBs from the start, who cares if I can huck walls or blast through rock gardens if the majority of my time in the saddle is loathsome on a long-low-slack gravity sled that can't steer. I have more fun using the brakes a little more on a scalpel that can steer around obstacles, instead of a 30+ lb sledgehammer that soaks them up. All the same logic applies to gravel bikes, I prefer something that's basically an endurance road bike with big tire clearance. Currently happy with 420mm chainstays, 72/73 HT/ST, 73mm BB drop, 51mm fork offset - and, critically, a dropper post so I can put my center of mass where I won't go OTB at the first bump.
I don't get why droppers haven't completely dominated gravel yet, as it really opens up the design space to have a crisp handling bike that's safer to descend. I have a MTB friend who told me he'd rather give up his front brake before his dropper, and while that's obviously an exaggeration, he has a point. Just wanted to throw that out there since I hadn't seen it mentioned.
Of course as always this is extremely terrain dependent, and what works for me on my terrain could be a sick joke for you on your terrain.
#14
Sunshine
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 16,673
Bikes: '18 class built steel roadbike, '19 Fairlight Secan, '88 Schwinn Premis , Black Mountain Cycles Monstercross V4, '89 Novara Trionfo
Mentioned: 123 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11030 Post(s)
Liked 7,576 Times
in
4,226 Posts
I don't get why droppers haven't completely dominated gravel yet, as it really opens up the design space to have a crisp handling bike that's safer to descend.
...
Of course as always this is extremely terrain dependent, and what works for me on my terrain could be a sick joke for you on your terrain.
...
Of course as always this is extremely terrain dependent, and what works for me on my terrain could be a sick joke for you on your terrain.
Its all about how the bike is used. If you are using it as a pseudo-MTB, then sure it makes sense for a dropper post to be added. If you ride fire roads that have steep long descents with massive craters and boulders, then sure it makes sense for a dropper post to be added. If you are riding gravel roads, then perhaps you wont benefit much from a dropper.
#15
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Michigan
Posts: 4,863
Bikes: too many of all kinds
Mentioned: 35 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1147 Post(s)
Liked 415 Times
in
335 Posts
I dislike bikes with a lot of flop. I suspect a bike with 70.5hta and 50mm of rake is going to be annoying while standing on a climb. My understanding of why MTB's designers have been moving to slacker angles is because when the suspension fork is compressed, the HTA can get pretty steep. That doesn't happen on a gravel bike.
A big part of the slack MTB head tube angles is to give you long trail like on a motorcycle - its great for downhill at speed where you really need stability. Not so much for climbing.
#16
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Awesome, this is the convo I think I wanted to be having. What all goes into "flop"? Can you have two bikes with identical trail and different amounts of "flop"?
#17
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Michigan
Posts: 4,863
Bikes: too many of all kinds
Mentioned: 35 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1147 Post(s)
Liked 415 Times
in
335 Posts
I don't get why droppers haven't completely dominated gravel yet, as it really opens up the design space to have a crisp handling bike that's safer to descend. I have a MTB friend who told me he'd rather give up his front brake before his dropper, and while that's obviously an exaggeration, he has a point. Just wanted to throw that out there since I hadn't seen it mentioned.
My gravel bike has 58mm of trail. I dont find it to be twitchy or sketchy. I dont think about the steering input when climbing or descending, its quite neutral to me, i guess.
True. People adapt to these minor geometry change in about 10 minutes - so its easy to "argue" the merits but does it really make that much difference?
Besides 58mm of trail isn't twitchy because bikes aren't twitchy, riders are. I can ride any of my bikes with "no hands." But if I stiff arm the bike, i'm riding twitchy. Twitchy is just an odd term that should be applied to riders, not to bikes.
Along with that -
A bike with slack head angel and more trail is going to have slower turn in. This can be good for a novice rider who needs to learn not to stiff arm things.
I find that gravel bikes with slack head head tubes be manhandled into a swift turn, and will overshoot the apex and the track out anyway. Not necessarily what someone with experience wants.
Likes For chas58:
#18
Junior Member
You’re definitely not overthinking it imo. 50mm rake sounds a bit extreme for a gravel bike. I’d got 47mm. With a HT angle around 72.3 or so.
I like shirt chain stays, around 420... but 430-435 is good too.
I also like being more in the frame.. so 75 to 80 BB drop is my preference.
Agree about the dropper post. Especially if your compact frame provides enough exposed seat post.
good luck!
I like shirt chain stays, around 420... but 430-435 is good too.
I also like being more in the frame.. so 75 to 80 BB drop is my preference.
Agree about the dropper post. Especially if your compact frame provides enough exposed seat post.
good luck!
#19
Banned.
Dude I'm way ahead of you. I've got an excel spreadsheet. #engineer
https://drive.google.com/file/d/11MM...ew?usp=sharing
I've even calculated how the spacers and stem angle effect the stack and reach. Am I sick? Possibly.
Demo-ing is tricky right now with the 'Rona, and I'd like to try it with the correct reach and take it on a couple hour spin with some real climbs and real descents.. I can rent a Revolt though for $80/day at a shop in Brevard though. I don't think they'd mind swapping stems for $80/day, and I wouldn't mind giving it a bit of a thrashing if I'm paying them for it.
I'd like to try a Stigmata and a Crux too, maybe a new Kona Major Jake too, which is just an updated geometry, carbon version of my current bike.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/11MM...ew?usp=sharing
I've even calculated how the spacers and stem angle effect the stack and reach. Am I sick? Possibly.
Demo-ing is tricky right now with the 'Rona, and I'd like to try it with the correct reach and take it on a couple hour spin with some real climbs and real descents.. I can rent a Revolt though for $80/day at a shop in Brevard though. I don't think they'd mind swapping stems for $80/day, and I wouldn't mind giving it a bit of a thrashing if I'm paying them for it.
I'd like to try a Stigmata and a Crux too, maybe a new Kona Major Jake too, which is just an updated geometry, carbon version of my current bike.
In regards to a dropper post, if you need one you may be on the wrong type of bike, you would be better off with a 29er hardtail.
One of the great things about a gravel bike is that it is much lighter than more traditional MTB bikes. A dropper post defeats that purpose.
#20
Senior Member
Thread Starter
The best solution to your problem is to throw a leg over, it will be $80 well spent.
In regards to a dropper post, if you need one you may be on the wrong type of bike, you would be better off with a 29er hardtail.
One of the great things about a gravel bike is that it is much lighter than more traditional MTB bikes. A dropper post defeats that purpose.
In regards to a dropper post, if you need one you may be on the wrong type of bike, you would be better off with a 29er hardtail.
One of the great things about a gravel bike is that it is much lighter than more traditional MTB bikes. A dropper post defeats that purpose.
Also, I think dropper posts are silly on gravel bikes too. Probably just as silly as adding 8 pack leafs and E-range tires on a Tacoma! ( fourfa ) Not only is there added weight, the dropper adds a significant amount of harshness to the ride. I've got one on my mountain bike, and I've actually considered removing it because it significantly harshens the ride. There significant singletrack gnar in and around Pisgah though, so I've kept it on. My gravel bike is kept off of the gnar though and the singletrack it sees is usually just to cut through somewhere for a short distance.
#21
Banned.
Well it wouldn't just be $80. I'd probably be looking at $80 a test ride per day, which would probably add up if I don't narrow my shortlist significantly. But I get your point though, the feel of the wheel will seal the deal.
Also, I think dropper posts are silly on gravel bikes too. Probably just as silly as adding 8 pack leafs and E-range tires on a Tacoma! ( fourfa ) Not only is there added weight, the dropper adds a significant amount of harshness to the ride. I've got one on my mountain bike, and I've actually considered removing it because it significantly harshens the ride. There significant singletrack gnar in and around Pisgah though, so I've kept it on. My gravel bike is kept off of the gnar though and the singletrack it sees is usually just to cut through somewhere for a short distance.
Also, I think dropper posts are silly on gravel bikes too. Probably just as silly as adding 8 pack leafs and E-range tires on a Tacoma! ( fourfa ) Not only is there added weight, the dropper adds a significant amount of harshness to the ride. I've got one on my mountain bike, and I've actually considered removing it because it significantly harshens the ride. There significant singletrack gnar in and around Pisgah though, so I've kept it on. My gravel bike is kept off of the gnar though and the singletrack it sees is usually just to cut through somewhere for a short distance.
#22
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Math and test rides, man. Math and test rides.
Likes For Phatman:
#23
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Michigan
Posts: 4,863
Bikes: too many of all kinds
Mentioned: 35 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1147 Post(s)
Liked 415 Times
in
335 Posts
You’re definitely not overthinking it imo. 50mm rake sounds a bit extreme for a gravel bike. I’d got 47mm. With a HT angle around 72.3 or so.
#24
Randomhead
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Happy Valley, Pennsylvania
Posts: 24,419
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked 3,720 Times
in
2,537 Posts
I think you can definitely tell 10mm rake. I'm going to go ahead and say 3mm is all confirmation bias. I'm glad to see designers are no longer wedded to 45mm rake since they are going with slacker head tube angles. My gravel bike has 72 degree HTA and 45mm rake and I think that's just silly.
#25
Senior Member
A big part of it is that the wide stance on the handlebars gives the rider a ton of leverage on the steering. Geometries that are excessively weighty and floppy in road posture with 42cm drop bars can feel natural in an MTB posture with 80cm flat bars.