Advantage of upgraded wheels?
#26
Senior Member




Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 10,341
Likes: 14,830
I just looked those up, and the claimed weight is 1685 grams! Not much lighter than my alloy wheels with DTS 350 hubs, which were custom built for about half the money. Is there some advantage to those Reynolds wheels that I'm missing?
#27
Thread Starter
Full Member

Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 200
Likes: 61
From: Albany GA
Bikes: 1983 Trek 400, 2015 Cannondale Synapse, Soma Double Cross, 2021 Salsa Warbird 600
One disadvantage is that the Reynolds is only 21mm inside rim dimension. The Zipp 303 S is 23mm.
Gary
Gary
#28
Thread Killer

Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 13,140
Likes: 2,163
From: Ann Arbor, MI
Bikes: 15 Kinesis Racelight 4S, 76 Motebecane Gran Jubilée, 17 Dedacciai Gladiatore2, 12 Breezer Venturi, 09 Dahon Mariner, 12 Mercier Nano, 95 DeKerf Team SL, 19 Tern Rally, 21 Breezer Doppler Cafe+, 19 T-Lab X3, 91 Serotta CII, 23 3T Strada
#29
Junior Member
Joined: Jul 2020
Posts: 199
Likes: 49
From: New Hampshire
Bikes: 1984 homemade 531SL road bike; 1988 Ritchey TimberComp; 1997 Nashbar tandem; 1998 Kona Explosif; Specialized Epic, Scott CR1 Pro; Salsa Beargrease; Curtlo custom Tandem, Curtlo custom S3 steel gravel bike.
Enve AG25 wheels are 25 mm internal, under 1500 gm for the wheelset, and I got mine last summer for $1550. And the rims are actually made in the US - that has to be worth something!
#30
Thread Killer

Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 13,140
Likes: 2,163
From: Ann Arbor, MI
Bikes: 15 Kinesis Racelight 4S, 76 Motebecane Gran Jubilée, 17 Dedacciai Gladiatore2, 12 Breezer Venturi, 09 Dahon Mariner, 12 Mercier Nano, 95 DeKerf Team SL, 19 Tern Rally, 21 Breezer Doppler Cafe+, 19 T-Lab X3, 91 Serotta CII, 23 3T Strada
Well if this is turning into a wheel recommendation thread, I think the carbon wheel QPR (quality to price ratio) leader is the Lün Grapid from Winspace, which is 25mm IW, 38mm deep, 1413g, and $800. Wide flange spacing hubs, o-ring seals…lots of good stuff.
I don’t have them or know anyone who does, but the specs are fabulous and there have been many very good reviews for Winspace wheels across a broad spectrum of sources.
https://www.winspace.cc/lun-grapid-7...-wheelset.html
I don’t have them or know anyone who does, but the specs are fabulous and there have been many very good reviews for Winspace wheels across a broad spectrum of sources.
https://www.winspace.cc/lun-grapid-7...-wheelset.html
#31
Junior Member
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 146
Likes: 77
I'd say that if you use Strava and try to improve your times, do any group rides, compete in any races at all or do any considerable amount of hillclimbing, get better wheels. You will notice the difference immediately.
#32
Junior Member
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 146
Likes: 77
I'd say that if you use Strava and try to improve your times, do any group rides, compete in any races at all or do any considerable amount of hillclimbing, get better wheels. You will notice the difference immediately.
#33
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,468
Likes: 340
From: Pittsburgh, PA
Bikes: Co-Motion Cappuccino Tandem,'88 Bob Jackson Touring, Co-Motion Cascadia Touring, Open U.P., Ritchie Titanium Breakaway, Frances Cycles SmallHaul cargo bike. Those are the permanent ones; others wander in and out of the stable occasionally as well.
Yeah, not super light, but extremely durable, and unlimited weight rating is the big one. Like I said above though, I'd recommend the DT Swiss or Eastons above the Reynolds if cost is an issue and Reynolds are excellent if you are a suberclyde. I own and ride both the Reynolds and DT Swiss. I am partial to the Eastons too but am not currently riding them. We sell Reynolds, Easton & DT Swiss and over 6 years without a single broken spoke, cracked rim or warranty issue on any of them. The next step down is also a great set into the $450 range - Shimano GRX. We find the GRX set the best one available in the sub $500 range and a great upgrade for most bikes under $3,000.
#34
Thread Starter
Full Member

Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 200
Likes: 61
From: Albany GA
Bikes: 1983 Trek 400, 2015 Cannondale Synapse, Soma Double Cross, 2021 Salsa Warbird 600
If you are a recreational rider who isn't concerned with times or competitive riding/group riding/Strava times, then I agree. To say that dropping 600 grams in wheel weight would have a near trivial impact is bunk though. You will notice an immediate difference going with a 1500g wheelset. You don't have to go carbon but carbon has it's advantages. <snip> Carbon wheels are much more durable and if you are a bigger rider, they are worth the premium in my opinion. With carbon you can get a 25mm internal wheelset that goes 1500g and will outlast any lighter alum wheelset. Aero benefit is not worth debating if you are not a competitive (very) rider.
I'd say that if you use Strava and try to improve your times, do any group rides, compete in any races at all or do any considerable amount of hillclimbing, get better wheels. You will notice the difference immediately.
I'd say that if you use Strava and try to improve your times, do any group rides, compete in any races at all or do any considerable amount of hillclimbing, get better wheels. You will notice the difference immediately.
Definitely want carbon due to my weight. I'd rather hurt once on the purchase than buy aluminum and have a wheel crack or do otherwise, like some here have said. Would like 25mm inner rim width and am willing to go to $1,500 - preferably less - to get something that will be durable and have a good warranty.
Appreciate all the input - wish I could respond to each one individually - keep the good info coming!
Gary
#35
Junior Member
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 146
Likes: 77
Since you ride that much, carbon bars are a major improvement as well. Weight savings is pretty minor but they smooth out vibrations so much. You can pick up a decent set for reasonable $$$ Couldn't live without them (and my Redshift stem).
#36
Thread Starter
Full Member

Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 200
Likes: 61
From: Albany GA
Bikes: 1983 Trek 400, 2015 Cannondale Synapse, Soma Double Cross, 2021 Salsa Warbird 600
Carbon - 18,818 miles, no broken spokes (Reynolds, 24 spokes)
Aluminum - 8,000 miles, 3 broken spokes (Mavic, Stan’s and Fulcrum)
So, yeah. I’m gonna upgrade to carbon for responsiveness, durability and ride smoothness. Preferably with 23-25mm inner rim width. Gonna go with hooks after reading the info here - appreciate the input so far!
Gary
#37
Advanced Slacker

Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 6,286
Likes: 2,602
Bikes: Soma Fog Cutter, Surly Wednesday, Canfielld Tilt
I think that when talking about the impact of wheel weight, you have to distinguish between weight at the outside (rims, nipples) vs weight at the center (hubs). The rims/nipples matter a whole lot more than the hubs, (with spoke weight somewhere in the middle of importance). I find comparisons of total wheel weights that do not make this distinction to be of little value.
So when someone says "Hey, this aluminum wheelset weighs the same as this other CF wheelset for a lot less money" that may be true, but the rim weights are likely to be different. And that is really the important part.
So when someone says "Hey, this aluminum wheelset weighs the same as this other CF wheelset for a lot less money" that may be true, but the rim weights are likely to be different. And that is really the important part.
#38
Thread Starter
Full Member

Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 200
Likes: 61
From: Albany GA
Bikes: 1983 Trek 400, 2015 Cannondale Synapse, Soma Double Cross, 2021 Salsa Warbird 600
Gary
#39
Full Member
Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 211
Likes: 228
From: California
Bikes: 2020 Lynskey GR300, 1987 Diamondback Ascent, 1991 Skykomish Marble Point, 1994 Specialized Stumpjumper FSR, 1996 Specialized Stumpjumper M2 FS, 1992 GT Karakoram
I upgraded to custom IndustryNine wheels through my Lynskey bike purchase (20% off, zero % financed). Honestly it was just for the bling factor of customized colors. That being said I’m really happy about their performance, especially the hub engagement, decently light 1545 grams and 24.5mm internal rim width. Perfect spec for lots of tubeless gravel tires on the market today.
#40
Junior Member
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 146
Likes: 77
One more thing... for the folks saying aluminum rides better, that is true but not with tubeless 45mm tires. If you plan to ride tires smaller than 40mm, maybe worth considering (but I don't think so).
I have a hard time believing anyone could tell the difference between carbon and aluminum with 45mm wide tires at 30psi.
I have a hard time believing anyone could tell the difference between carbon and aluminum with 45mm wide tires at 30psi.
#41
Senior Member

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,981
Likes: 764
From: Eastern VA
Bikes: 2022 Fuel EX 8, 2021 Domane SL6, Black Beta (Nashbar frame), 2004 Trek 1000C for the trainer
I started riding at 265 lbs four years ago. Was down to 225 last year before gaining 10 back. I’ve ridden over 26,000 miles since then.
Carbon - 18,818 miles, no broken spokes (Reynolds, 24 spokes)
Aluminum - 8,000 miles, 3 broken spokes (Mavic, Stan’s and Fulcrum)
So, yeah. I’m gonna upgrade to carbon for responsiveness, durability and ride smoothness. Preferably with 23-25mm inner rim width. Gonna go with hooks after reading the info here - appreciate the input so far!
Gary
Carbon - 18,818 miles, no broken spokes (Reynolds, 24 spokes)
Aluminum - 8,000 miles, 3 broken spokes (Mavic, Stan’s and Fulcrum)
So, yeah. I’m gonna upgrade to carbon for responsiveness, durability and ride smoothness. Preferably with 23-25mm inner rim width. Gonna go with hooks after reading the info here - appreciate the input so far!
Gary
https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/e...ode=black_grey
#42
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,468
Likes: 340
From: Pittsburgh, PA
Bikes: Co-Motion Cappuccino Tandem,'88 Bob Jackson Touring, Co-Motion Cascadia Touring, Open U.P., Ritchie Titanium Breakaway, Frances Cycles SmallHaul cargo bike. Those are the permanent ones; others wander in and out of the stable occasionally as well.
I started riding at 265 lbs four years ago. Was down to 225 last year before gaining 10 back. I’ve ridden over 26,000 miles since then.
Carbon - 18,818 miles, no broken spokes (Reynolds, 24 spokes)
Aluminum - 8,000 miles, 3 broken spokes (Mavic, Stan’s and Fulcrum)
So, yeah. I’m gonna upgrade to carbon for responsiveness, durability and ride smoothness. Preferably with 23-25mm inner rim width. Gonna go with hooks after reading the info here - appreciate the input so far!
Gary
Carbon - 18,818 miles, no broken spokes (Reynolds, 24 spokes)
Aluminum - 8,000 miles, 3 broken spokes (Mavic, Stan’s and Fulcrum)
So, yeah. I’m gonna upgrade to carbon for responsiveness, durability and ride smoothness. Preferably with 23-25mm inner rim width. Gonna go with hooks after reading the info here - appreciate the input so far!
Gary
#43
Senior Member



Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 6,762
Likes: 5,382
From: Minneapolis
Bikes: 2022 Salsa Beargrease Carbon Deore 11, 2020 Salsa Warbird GRX 600, 2020 Canyon Ultimate CF SLX disc 9.0 Di2, 2020 Catrike Eola, 2016 Masi cxgr, 2011, Felt F3 Ltd, 2010 Trek 2.1, 2009 KHS Flite 220
I own essentially the same bike as the OP, one year older, but with the same stock wheels. They are heavy. I replaced them with Lightbicycle WR35 (35 mm depth, 25 mm ID width) carbon rims and Novatec hubs for $660/pair.
I'm not going to argue the "is it worth it for those dollars" thing. I like my carbon wheels much better than the OEM wheels, both for the lighter weight and for the advantages of wider rims.
I'm not going to argue the "is it worth it for those dollars" thing. I like my carbon wheels much better than the OEM wheels, both for the lighter weight and for the advantages of wider rims.
#45
I also got Light Bicycle wheels for gravel riding .. WR50's. I don't think the weight is such a big deal but I have to say I have gotten quite enamored with how deep section wheels ride. They give you added stability due to some complex physics I don't claim to understand very well. Here is a link if you want to see an explanation: https://www.roadbikerider.com/the-ph...ero-wheels-d1/. They have a downside in crosswinds but it is minimal on the WR50s.
Re: hookless or not, maybe in a few years hookless will be ready for prime time but it didn't seem to be fully there a year ago when I got my wheels.
Re: hookless or not, maybe in a few years hookless will be ready for prime time but it didn't seem to be fully there a year ago when I got my wheels.
#46
Sunshine
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 18,729
Likes: 10,282
From: Des Moines, IA
Bikes: '18 class built steel roadbike, '19 Fairlight Secan, '88 Schwinn Premis , Black Mountain Cycles Monstercross V4, '89 Novara Trionfo
It won't make me measurably faster, but it can be felt.
#47
Junior Member
Joined: Jul 2020
Posts: 199
Likes: 49
From: New Hampshire
Bikes: 1984 homemade 531SL road bike; 1988 Ritchey TimberComp; 1997 Nashbar tandem; 1998 Kona Explosif; Specialized Epic, Scott CR1 Pro; Salsa Beargrease; Curtlo custom Tandem, Curtlo custom S3 steel gravel bike.
Maybe it's placebo, but a 500g difference im wheelset weight can be felt. Perhaps it's other things besides just weight- different spoke count, different rim width, etc...but I'm pretty sure it's the weight that can be felt and 500g can be felt, even at that riding weight.
It won't make me measurably faster, but it can be felt.
It won't make me measurably faster, but it can be felt.
#48
Junior Member
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 146
Likes: 77
#49
Gang,
I bought a 2021 Salsa Warbird 600 about 4 weeks ago. Stock wheels are WTB ST Light i23 TCS - they weigh about 2,170 grams for the set, I understand.
I'm looking at a set of Zipp 303 S carbon wheels.
I ride at around 15-16 mph on mostly dirt roads. What advantages will a set of carbon wheels give me over the stock wheelset, other than reduced weight?
Thanks,
Gary
I bought a 2021 Salsa Warbird 600 about 4 weeks ago. Stock wheels are WTB ST Light i23 TCS - they weigh about 2,170 grams for the set, I understand.
I'm looking at a set of Zipp 303 S carbon wheels.
I ride at around 15-16 mph on mostly dirt roads. What advantages will a set of carbon wheels give me over the stock wheelset, other than reduced weight?
Thanks,
Gary
#50
Senior Member



Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 6,762
Likes: 5,382
From: Minneapolis
Bikes: 2022 Salsa Beargrease Carbon Deore 11, 2020 Salsa Warbird GRX 600, 2020 Canyon Ultimate CF SLX disc 9.0 Di2, 2020 Catrike Eola, 2016 Masi cxgr, 2011, Felt F3 Ltd, 2010 Trek 2.1, 2009 KHS Flite 220



