Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Electric Bikes
Reload this Page >

Impressions on using BadassBox with Bosch Performance mid drive

Notices
Electric Bikes Here's a place to discuss ebikes, from home grown to high-tech.

Impressions on using BadassBox with Bosch Performance mid drive

Old 11-18-18, 09:57 AM
  #1  
boggy
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
boggy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 132

Bikes: 2007 Novara Aspen, 2011 Fuji SST 2.0, 2018 Electra Townie Commute GO! 8i

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 31 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 1 Post
Impressions on using BadassBox with Bosch Performance mid drive

I have a new Electra Townie Commute, which is basically enhanced beach cruiser with Bosch Performance mid drive, 700c wheels, hydraulic disk breaks, and 8 speed Shimano Nexus hub. It weights in at just under 60lbs. Practical speed limit on it is 19MPH, as you approach 20MPH putting more effort on pedals does not affect your speed but prolongs battery charge instead. So with factory settings the bike trains you to ease off and find the right cadence to maintain 19MPH, this results in using speed 7 on flat surface.

Putting BadassBox on it does not make it into rocket rod, you can comfortably cruise at 21-22MPH, and you can maintain 25MPH with decent effort using maximum speed 8 (maintaining 25MPH will significantly decrease your range though, so I prefer to only use it at certain stretches and not all the time). Sprinting at speed up to 30MPH is possible for short durations at maximum effort, and you need to drop real low on that cruiser handlebar, that really drains your battery too. All this essentially makes it into class 3 e-bike that is still street legal where I ride it.

What I really like about it, is that it sort of behaves like factory speed limited bike at Turbo assist level when you put it into Sport assist with BadassBox. With very compatible speed and battery range, but now you can get speed boost when you need to make that traffic light and (my favorite) you no longer run into speed wall at 20MPH and the entire experience becomes a whole lot more comfortable.
boggy is offline  
Old 11-24-18, 05:50 AM
  #2  
angerdan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Europe
Posts: 431
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 126 Post(s)
Liked 6 Times in 6 Posts
Depending on the laws in your state, the solution is technically usable.
In Europe or especially germany (where Bosch is located too), an S-Pedelec would be the safer solution because of the vehicle insurance needed for Pedelcs faster than 25kph.
angerdan is offline  
Old 11-25-18, 09:28 PM
  #3  
boggy
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
boggy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 132

Bikes: 2007 Novara Aspen, 2011 Fuji SST 2.0, 2018 Electra Townie Commute GO! 8i

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 31 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 1 Post
Originally Posted by angerdan View Post
Depending on the laws in your state, the solution is technically usable.
In Europe or especially germany (where Bosch is located too), an S-Pedelec would be the safer solution because of the vehicle insurance needed for Pedelcs faster than 25kph.
This does seem a little over the top to me. Legal limit for regular e-bike (as in non S-Pedelec) is 20 miles per hour in the US, which is just a tad over 32kph. And it does feel pretty low, as regular road bike has cruising speed faster than that. 25kph sounds really slow...
boggy is offline  
Old 11-28-18, 01:24 PM
  #4  
Dunbar
Senior Member
 
Dunbar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: SoCal
Posts: 3,079

Bikes: Roubaix SL4 Expert , Cervelo S2

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 85 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Yeah, the Bosch systems top out around 500-550W which is not enough to cruise at 28mph. Although some of their systems are designed to top out at 20mph assisted so theyíll likely spin out long before you reach 28mph. I just upgraded my Cross Current to 1000W and even that isnít quite enough to cruise at 28mph all the time (although itís way better than the former 650-700W peak power.) I think 1200-1300W is what up I would need to realistically cruise at 28mph in most conditions. Most people donít realize that the power drops with decreasing battery voltage. So a 10V drop in voltage @ 20 amps would be a 200W drop in power although, in my experience, the real world drop is even more pronounced than this.

I think that my next e-bike will be a mid-drive system but most of them are still underpowered for true speed pedelec applications.

Last edited by Dunbar; 11-28-18 at 01:28 PM.
Dunbar is offline  
Old 11-28-18, 02:34 PM
  #5  
2old
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: socal
Posts: 2,310
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 393 Post(s)
Liked 164 Times in 119 Posts
I was tempted by Biktrix's 35 mph Ultra-mid fat bike on Cyber Monday, but fought off the urge to purchase one.
2old is offline  
Old 11-29-18, 12:39 AM
  #6  
Nightdiver
On yer bike
 
Nightdiver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: will.i.amette
Posts: 518
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 83 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Originally Posted by Dunbar View Post
Yeah, the Bosch systems top out around 500-550W which is not enough to cruise at 28mph. Although some of their systems are designed to top out at 20mph assisted so theyíll likely spin out long before you reach 28mph. I just upgraded my Cross Current to 1000W and even that isnít quite enough to cruise at 28mph all the time (although itís way better than the former 650-700W peak power.) I think 1200-1300W is what up I would need to realistically cruise at 28mph in most conditions. Most people donít realize that the power drops with decreasing battery voltage. So a 10V drop in voltage @ 20 amps would be a 200W drop in power although, in my experience, the real world drop is even more pronounced than this.

I think that my next e-bike will be a mid-drive system but most of them are still underpowered for true speed pedelec applications.
Which s-ped bikes did you test that didn't allow you to cruise at 28mph? I've ridden quite a few s-ped Bosch bikes and almost all were comfortably able to cruise at 28mph, and some would easily have kept going past that mark if not restricted.
Nightdiver is offline  
Old 11-29-18, 10:37 AM
  #7  
2old
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: socal
Posts: 2,310
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 393 Post(s)
Liked 164 Times in 119 Posts
Dunbar, I've ridden a couple of Juiced bikes for short intervals and thought they achieved 28 mph (sometimes test bikes may be "juiced'); surprised to hear yours didn't achieve 28 mph. I'll probably order a "dongle" for my Yamaha Haibike one of these days now that its warranty has expired, but don't now what to expect (I've heard everything from 26 - 35 mph). My "1500w" (30 amp controller, 52V - $600 kit + battery) Frankenbike does 33 mph easily (on Cyber Monday they were selling the rear hub kits for $157 delivered).
2old is offline  
Old 11-29-18, 01:24 PM
  #8  
angerdan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Europe
Posts: 431
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 126 Post(s)
Liked 6 Times in 6 Posts
Lightbulb

Originally Posted by Dunbar View Post
Yeah, the Bosch systems top out around 500-550W which is not enough to cruise at 28mph. Although some of their systems are designed to top out at 20mph assisted so they’ll likely spin out long before you reach 28mph. I just upgraded my Cross Current to 1000W and even that isn’t quite enough to cruise at 28mph all the time (although it’s way better than the former 650-700W peak power.) I think 1200-1300W is what up I would need to realistically cruise at 28mph in most conditions.
Where did you get the information about reaching the cruising speed of 28mph with Bosch Performance Speed?
With just 350W the Bosch Motor reaches 28mph.
bosch-ebike.com/en/products/performance-line/
angerdan is offline  
Old 12-01-18, 06:17 PM
  #9  
Dunbar
Senior Member
 
Dunbar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: SoCal
Posts: 3,079

Bikes: Roubaix SL4 Expert , Cervelo S2

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 85 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by angerdan View Post
Where did you get the information about reaching the cruising speed of 28mph with Bosch Performance Speed?
With just 350W the Bosch Motor reaches 28mph.
bosch-ebike.com/en/products/performance-line/
What I meant was that the 500-550W of the Bosch Systems is not enough power to cruise at 28mph most of the time. If you have a tailwind or slight decline it’s possible to hit 28mph (the bike will allow it) but basic physics tells you it’s not enough power to cruise at 28mph in typical conditions. Also, as battery voltage drops, so does the output of the motor. So if you start out at 500-550W you end up with 100-150W less power as the battery depletes.

https://electricbikereview.com/forum...o-brose.14085/

Originally Posted by 2old View Post
Dunbar, I've ridden a couple of Juiced bikes for short intervals and thought they achieved 28 mph (sometimes test bikes may be "juiced'); surprised to hear yours didn't achieve 28 mph.
My original Cross Current peaked at 13A @ 48V. From what I read on the Juiced Bikes EBR forum most people with the original Cross Current had trouble maintaining 28mph. The bike can hit 28mph if you have the right conditions but in real world conditions you weren’t going to see that most of the time. I now have a 20A controller which is almost 1000W of power.It’s a lot easier to hit and maintain 28mph now.

Last edited by Dunbar; 12-01-18 at 06:31 PM.
Dunbar is offline  
Old 12-02-18, 03:06 AM
  #10  
angerdan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Europe
Posts: 431
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 126 Post(s)
Liked 6 Times in 6 Posts
Since its a Pedelec and not a ebike, you also have to Pedal. So it also depends on overal weight, your used force/energy and other factors.
angerdan is offline  
Old 12-02-18, 07:21 PM
  #11  
Nightdiver
On yer bike
 
Nightdiver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: will.i.amette
Posts: 518
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 83 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Originally Posted by Dunbar View Post
What I meant was that the 500-550W of the Bosch Systems is not enough power to cruise at 28mph most of the time. If you have a tailwind or slight decline itís possible to hit 28mph (the bike will allow it) but basic physics tells you itís not enough power to cruise at 28mph in typical conditions. Also, as battery voltage drops, so does the output of the motor. So if you start out at 500-550W you end up with 100-150W less power as the battery depletes.
And yet my first hand experience riding many s-ped Bosch bikes contradicts this. So bringing up the old "basic physics" is all well and good, but if that doesn't reflect real world use, then clearly it's not really that basic, with many other factors at play.
Nightdiver is offline  
Old 12-07-18, 03:58 PM
  #12  
Dunbar
Senior Member
 
Dunbar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: SoCal
Posts: 3,079

Bikes: Roubaix SL4 Expert , Cervelo S2

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 85 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by Nightdiver View Post
And yet my first hand experience riding many s-ped Bosch bikes contradicts this. So bringing up the old "basic physics" is all well and good, but if that doesn't reflect real world use, then clearly it's not really that basic, with many other factors at play.
How many watts do you think it takes to cruise at 28mph on a typical class 3 e-bike? On a road bike with a decent aero position it’s going to take ~450-500 watts. I’m not claiming the Bosch Performance Line won’t allow the bike to hit 28mph. It will. I’m saying that 500-550W of motor assist is not enough to cruise at 28mph in typical conditions. I’ve got about 10k miles on e-bikes so I’d like to think I speak from a reasonably informed position.
Dunbar is offline  
Old 12-07-18, 10:25 PM
  #13  
Nightdiver
On yer bike
 
Nightdiver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: will.i.amette
Posts: 518
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 83 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Originally Posted by Dunbar View Post
How many watts do you think it takes to cruise at 28mph on a typical class 3 e-bike? On a road bike with a decent aero position it’s going to take ~450-500 watts. I’m not claiming the Bosch Performance Line won’t allow the bike to hit 28mph. It will. I’m saying that 500-550W of motor assist is not enough to cruise at 28mph in typical conditions. I’ve got about 10k miles on e-bikes so I’d like to think I speak from a reasonably informed position.
I'm not debating watts with you. I'm refuting this exact claim you made: "Yeah, the Bosch systems top out around 500-550W which is not enough to cruise at 28mph." And I'm refuting it with first hand experience riding many different models of Bosch S-Ped bikes, that were easily able to "cruise" at 28mph. How many of your 10K miles are on Bosch S-Ped bikes? And which of those models were not able to cruise at 28mph? It sounds like you're trying to make a theoretical argument around watts performance that clearly does not translate to the subject matter of Bosch S-Ped bikes in real world use.
Nightdiver is offline  
Old 12-08-18, 01:29 AM
  #14  
2old
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: socal
Posts: 2,310
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 393 Post(s)
Liked 164 Times in 119 Posts
The issue of watts is murky; the rating is supposed to signify the maximum power that an electric motor can produce indefinitely, but at times it seems as though manufacturers designate a rating that suits their needs. My friend had a 2016 Bosch-equipped Felt (with a "350w" motor) that he modified by moving the magnet and sensor to the crank area and the bike was capable of 30+ mph. I've ridden two "500w" Stromers and both were capable of 30 mph for extended periods.
2old is offline  
Old 12-08-18, 05:07 PM
  #15  
Dunbar
Senior Member
 
Dunbar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: SoCal
Posts: 3,079

Bikes: Roubaix SL4 Expert , Cervelo S2

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 85 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by Nightdiver View Post
I'm not debating watts with you. I'm refuting this exact claim you made: "Yeah, the Bosch systems top out around 500-550W which is not enough to cruise at 28mph." And I'm refuting it with first hand experience riding many different models of Bosch S-Ped bikes, that were easily able to "cruise" at 28mph. How many of your 10K miles are on Bosch S-Ped bikes? And which of those models were not able to cruise at 28mph? It sounds like you're trying to make a theoretical argument around watts performance that clearly does not translate to the subject matter of Bosch S-Ped bikes in real world use.
Do you own a Bosch performance line e-bike? I’ve test ridden several myself including a Trek Super Commuter 8. Any sort of headwind on that bike and you weren’t getting anywhere near 28mph on the top assist mode.
Dunbar is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
owaishortus
Electric Bikes
10
05-01-18 09:45 PM
arkadiy
Electric Bikes
5
03-25-18 09:15 PM
shayati
Electric Bikes
7
04-30-15 06:24 PM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.