sysrq

So far haven't stumbled upon during 5 years of daily reading anyone talking about battery efficiency between torque sensors compared to alternating between throttle at high chainring RPM (also allows transmission of higher power trough the chain while resulting in reduced chain wear with BBSHD compared to pedalling with higher torque and lower normal RPM leading to higher torque on the chain) mainly on hills and pure leg power.

Another question is about theoretical reduction of catabolism and fast twitch muscle fiber atrophy when alternating between throttle and pure high intensity leg power during long distance commute (20-50 miles) compared to torque sensor which seems to be better for endurance training or technical offroad riding.

So far almost everyone keeps saying that torque sensors are superior in every way despite the possibility of unexpected acceleration especially when forgetting to reduce PAS level.

cat0020

Human efficiency would likely make the most difference in efficiency of any ebike.
How well you know your vehicle & how well your body function it in specific conditions & terrain you operate in,
all the takes saddle time to learn per different rider.
A human can learn how to operate an ebike to suit efficiency, just as driving a car, truck or riding a motorcycle.
All it takes is practice.
Machines like ebikes, not so much learning going on there, at least not yet.

Doc_Wui

People have wondered whether riding with a throttle locked in cruise control uses less power than riding with cadence pedal assist at the same average speed, When I have tried it, the wattage displayed seems to be lower and consistent, whereas pedal assist shows a higher wattage that varies, However, I don't really know, It would take better instrumentation and a controlled ride, and it's not that much of interest to me.

I think the best way to get more battery efficiency is to force the rider to work harder,Or from the point of view of the battery, make the motor work less hard, Better rolling tires, lighter bike.rider, less wind resistance, and torque sensing assist will do all of that,

Rick_D

Half year in I can't cite any unintended acceleration instances so perhaps not an issue? So many flavors of drive systems it may not be possible to lump and compare by group and instead, they require individual consideration.

Being customizable I value the ability to dial in different power, assist, and pedal response levels for each of three profiles. Have learned from the HRM that for a given level of effort, I travel farther and have a higher top speed on the flats, versus all my other bikes, keeping my work rate consistent. So far, very happy.

(Never ridden a throttle bike or cadence sensor bike.)

2old

Perhaps it's the nature of MTB riding in socal (pretty steep ascents and drops without a lot of flat), but (for me) the cadence sensor on my BBS02-equipped system is equally as good as my multi-sensored Haibike/Yamaha. The biggest difference is that the multi doesn't seem to require as much pedaling finesse. The BBS is ridden much more frequently than the Haibike because it's more fun. I measure the watt-hours per mile on every ride and, although I don't maintain a log of the values, the Yamaha seems much more efficient.

Smaug1

I can't figure out what the two first paragraphs of the original post are asking for.

I do have experience with cadence sensor vs. torque sensor; both on hub drives:

A cadence-sensored bike CAN be ridden efficiently, but takes some thought and commitment: Set the PAS such that the desired cruising speed is just below the speed one can pedal. Then, the motor only supplements the rider. During acceleration, cadence sensor is less efficient 100% of the time, because it just goes right to the speed associated with the PAS setting, and the motor applying the power needed until it is attained. Yes, there are throttle curves, but they'll never make it as efficient as a bike with a torque sensor. The torque sensor applies torque in proportion to the torque supplied by the rider, and is automatically more efficient. For example, with a torque sensor, the power system is not just trying to shoot right to 15 mph from a stop, and when a hill is encountered, speed slows unless the rider's effort is also increased.

The couple things a cadence sensor is better at:

• Keeping cost low
• Cruising at a constant speed
• Quick acceleration, at the expense of charge life (since it calls for max. power until the set speed is achieved)

I do have one bike with a cadence sensor that has bitten my wife and stepdaughter: The Lectric XP Lite. It has a yellow warning sticker, but lots of people won't read that until AFTER they've crashed. If the bike is walked from a stop and PAS is anywhere but 0, the crankshaft turns, as it is a single speed bike. This trips the cadence sensor, which is too dumb to know that the turning crankshaft is not being done by the rider. Then, the bike takes off out from under them. It's fine once you're aware of it, but don't put someone on that bike without a heads-up.

Rick_D

Ooh, thanks for that. Mine has a walk boost on/off option and I've been wondering why. I'll call it "free surprises mode" from now on.

Smaug1

The XP Lite also has a Walk Mode, but it is not easily activated by accident. What I was talking about was just the regular PAS mode. If it's set to anything other than zero and the crank turns far enough to actuate the motor, it's not a pleasant surprise!

My stepdaughter had it wheelie out from under her and she was running around holding the grips while the bike was on its rear wheel. I shouted: "hit the brakes" but she wasn't hearing me.

Leisesturm

I don't think the o.p. knows either. I bought a mid-drive (torque sensor) motor that offered a throttle OR a thermal sensor, but not both. It is NOT torque sensor good/throttle bad nor is it torque sensor OR throttle. Many bikes have torque sensor PAS with throttle at the ready for quick takeoffs or a break/powered cruise. Much ado about nothing.

sysrq

The only thing I remember it was hard to decide how much should extert myself before 17% hills during 50 mile commute on TSDZ2. If one starts to feel too tired then the torque sensor also will help less. There was also some danger of boging down the TSDZ2 motor if one doesn't help enough with the pedalling.
Now with BBSHD it's easier to decide: pure pedalling on the flats and throttle at 150 chainring RPM on hills since it has been said that to increase the average speed hills should be ridden as fast as possible. This also saves the energy and facilitates recovery for the upcomming flat sections while also helping to ride in a straighter line and better balance on 17% hills due to higher speed (25 km/h instead of 9 km/h).