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Old 02-11-24, 08:30 PM
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Elec bikes


I thought it was funny , but true !!!
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Old 02-11-24, 08:32 PM
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That’s funny
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Old 02-11-24, 09:17 PM
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Ah yes the classic trope.

Also please be aware a throttled vehicle is not a bicycle.
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Old 02-12-24, 08:05 AM
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Throttle or not, as long as you can pedal to propel forward, it's a bicycle.

New study shows why electric bikes are great for managing Type 2 diabetes
https://electrek.co/2023/10/22/new-s...pe-2-diabetes/

Switching to an electric bike means getting more exercise, period. Here’s why:
https://electrek.co/2022/11/22/switc...bike-exercise/

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Old 02-12-24, 03:55 PM
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Yes funny but not true in most cases.
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Old 02-12-24, 06:58 PM
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Originally Posted by cat0020
Throttle or not, as long as you can pedal to propel forward, it's a bicycle.

New study shows why electric bikes are great for managing Type 2 diabetes
https://electrek.co/2023/10/22/new-s...pe-2-diabetes/

Switching to an electric bike means getting more exercise, period. Heres why:
https://electrek.co/2022/11/22/switc...bike-exercise/
If you can pedal it but it has a throttle those are called mopeds. We have had a term for that for a long time, we should be realistic and use it. The biggest reason people think they hate e-bikes is because of the e-moped market it may have pedals they may have put a tourney or any derailleur on it but if it is a throttled vehicle it would be a moped.

Yes exercise is good but a throttle is not exercise except maybe to the wrist or thumb.
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Old 02-12-24, 07:28 PM
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Originally Posted by veganbikes
If you can pedal it but it has a throttle those are called mopeds. We have had a term for that for a long time, we should be realistic and use it. The biggest reason people think they hate e-bikes is because of the e-moped market it may have pedals they may have put a tourney or any derailleur on it but if it is a throttled vehicle it would be a moped.

Yes exercise is good but a throttle is not exercise except maybe to the wrist or thumb.
You can call a car a horseless carriage. You might be a little antiquated but technically youd be correct I suppose.

If a bike may be propelled by either pedals or throttle and if the assist is limited to 20 MPH, it is a class 2 E-bike, not a moped.

I love cycling. I go further than I should sometimes on my moper, um, class 2 E-bike, so Im grateful for the throttle. But there is no free lunch. Throttling against the harsh Florida winds drains the battery rapidly, so I have to limp home on PAS 1/pedalling. Ive lost 10 pounds so far.

But whatever.
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Old 02-12-24, 07:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Dudelsack
You can call a car a horseless carriage. You might be a little antiquated but technically youd be correct I suppose.

If a bike may be propelled by either pedals or throttle and if the assist is limited to 20 MPH, it is a class 2 E-bike, not a moped.

I love cycling. I go further than I should sometimes on my moper, um, class 2 E-bike, so Im grateful for the throttle. But there is no free lunch. Throttling against the harsh Florida winds drains the battery rapidly, so I have to limp home on PAS 1/pedalling. Ive lost 10 pounds so far.

But whatever.
It is a moped. I know what it has been classified as and I am sure the folks who make them have spent good time and money to lobby that their product is a bicycle even though it is has a throttle.

It is not a bad thing to enjoy a moped, and even better when it is used it pedal mode but it is does not really help cycling to call a throttled vehicle that may have pedals a bicycle. I hear time and time again that is a huge reason people hate "e-bikes" because they are lumped together. It was certainly a big reason in the past for me hating e-bikes because I at one point lumped them together as well. Luckily I have learned the difference and own a bunch of e-bikes and love them now.

Throttles do suck down the juice quite a bit, having a higher torque mid-drive motor with help with pedaling ease so the throttle is not really needed. I had a customer who said "I need a throttle, I cannot do it" and I took her on a test ride on an e-bike and she passed me up a very very steep hill looking cool as a cucumber. I was jokingly angry but she learned that she could do it herself and has been loving the bike she got for years now. No need to limp home struggling when you can enjoy the whole ride from start to finish without having to drain your whole battery : )
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Old 02-13-24, 09:28 AM
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I looked up some articles on "ebike vs e-moped", most of them categorize e-mopeds are those without pedals.
Electric mopeds: the basics
Also known as ‘sit-down scooters’, e-mopeds normally look pretty similar to standard gasoline-powered mopeds.
They have a leg shield and body that conceals their electrical mechanics,
and often come with storage space for helmets under the seat or in the leg shield.Like all mopeds,
they tend to have more relaxed licensing requirements than larger, more powerful motorcycles.
Mopeds in the USA often require a driver’s license and insurance and some form of registration.
Electric bikes do not require a license or registration or insurance.

https://www.electricfeel.com/blog/fl...ke-emoped-best

https://optibike.com/electric-bikes-vs-mopeds/

https://urbanebikes.com/blogs/news/e...ectric-moped-1

https://www.amfam.com/resources/arti...ikes-vs-mopeds

https://leedsbikes.com/blog/makes-e-...moped-scooter/

https://www.velotricbike.com/blogs/s...ebike-vs-moped

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Old 02-13-24, 09:57 AM
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Here's a link to classifications from NYC DOT:

https://www.nyc.gov/html/dot/html/bi...s/ebikes.shtml
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Old 02-13-24, 10:34 AM
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IMO you can call a Class 2 ebike any name (Bob, duck, etc), although most individuals choose the one (in this case, Class 2 bicycle) mandated for it. Calling it a duck doesn't change anything. As an aside, I'm amazed that some individuals denigrate Class 2 bicycles which can allow physically challenged or aged people to enjoy the same outdoor enjoyment that the rest of us are privileged with.
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Old 02-13-24, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Dudelsack
You can call a car a horseless carriage. You might be a little antiquated but technically youd be correct I suppose.

If a bike may be propelled by either pedals or throttle and if the assist is limited to 20 MPH, it is a class 2 E-bike, not a moped.

I love cycling. I go further than I should sometimes on my moper, um, class 2 E-bike, so Im grateful for the throttle. But there is no free lunch. Throttling against the harsh Florida winds drains the battery rapidly, so I have to limp home on PAS 1/pedalling. Ive lost 10 pounds so far.

But whatever.
In California, a moped is one thing and a Class 2 ebike is a different thing. I suspect that's true in many jurisdictions.
A motorized bicycle or moped is a two or three-wheeled device, capable of no more than 30 miles per hour (mph) on level ground. The vehicle code further defines this type of bike as having fully operative pedals for propulsion by human power, or having no pedals if powered solely by electrical energy. The DMV notes that these vehicles may use bike lanes, if authorized by local ordinance.
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Old 02-13-24, 03:59 PM
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Not saying people cannot ride e-mopeds (plenty of excellent roads for other throttled and motorized vehicles) and enjoy them but classifying an e-moped as a bicycle is just wrong. A bicycle has been and always will be a pedal operated machine, it may also have a assistance from a motor but if it is throttled that takes the bike out of the equation and turns it into a moped.

Again being an e-moped doesn't mean you cannot ride it or people with issues should be allowed to ride where throttled vehicles are legal it is just simply classifying it properly. If someone decides to ride a throttled vehicle with pedals on their city streets, go for it have fun.
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Old 02-13-24, 07:37 PM
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Originally Posted by veganbikes
Not saying people cannot ride e-mopeds (plenty of excellent roads for other throttled and motorized vehicles) and enjoy them but classifying an e-moped as a bicycle is just wrong. A bicycle has been and always will be a pedal operated machine, it may also have a assistance from a motor but if it is throttled that takes the bike out of the equation and turns it into a moped.

Again being an e-moped doesn't mean you cannot ride it or people with issues should be allowed to ride where throttled vehicles are legal it is just simply classifying it properly. If someone decides to ride a throttled vehicle with pedals on their city streets, go for it have fun.
Curious what you would consider my ebike then. It started out as a typical bicycle, then I added a kit to it. The kit happens to have a throttle, but literally the only time it ever gets used is when I have to traverse a deeply rutted icy alleyway in the winter, as being able to move forward without pedaling lets all of my body movement be focused on keeping it upright. Otherwise it spends all of it's time in use either doing the typical pedal assist thing, or sometimes even being ridden with no assist at all when going on slow group rides. Functionally, it gets used the same as a pedal-assist only bike, it just has an extra lump of plastic and wires attached to it. I could even remove the throttle if I felt like it.
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Old 02-13-24, 08:02 PM
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Pretty clear what his opinion of your e-bike would be.. even though it's just an opinion, based on zero evidence.
Originally Posted by veganbikes
If you can pedal it but it has a throttle those are called mopeds
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Old 02-13-24, 11:18 PM
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Originally Posted by cat0020
Pretty clear what his opinion of your e-bike would be.. even though it's just an opinion, based on zero evidence.
So explain me this how is a throttled vehicle that also has pedals not a moped? It is a literally what a moped is. Why is the need to classify a moped as a bicycle? I never said that one cannot enjoy a moped anywhere throttled vehicles are allowed.

However I don't think we should classify it as a bicycle simply because we want to. There are frequent times that the government will lump things together that are close enough or sometimes not at all and just do blanket stuff because they don't care. We are hopefully smarter than that.
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Old 02-13-24, 11:50 PM
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Would the OP almost be considered a troll to come on the Ebike forum and degenerate Ebike riders?
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Old 02-14-24, 12:03 AM
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A bicycle with a motor is a motorcycle. Nuff Said...

Ok... So now what is the difference between a Motor and an Engine... Ha

I gotta admit, I can still pedal, but when I can no longer its going to be an e-bike for me...
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Old 02-14-24, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by veganbikes
So explain me this how is a throttled vehicle that also has pedals not a moped? It is a literally what a moped is. Why is the need to classify a moped as a bicycle? I never said that one cannot enjoy a moped anywhere throttled vehicles are allowed.
i don't need to explain anything to you if you can actually read the articles referenced in previous post.

Originally Posted by veganbikes
However I don't think we should classify it as a bicycle simply because we want to.
There are frequent times that the government will lump things together that are close enough or sometimes not at all and just do blanket stuff because they don't care.
We are hopefully smarter than that.
If you're smart enough to read the classifications, they are pretty clear what is considered moped vs ebike.

Originally Posted by zandoval
I gotta admit, I can still pedal, but when I can no longer its going to be an e-bike for me...
That seems to be a personal problem, doesn't apply to general ebike riding population.
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Old 02-14-24, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by cat0020
i don't need to explain anything to you if you can actually read the articles referenced in previous post.



If you're smart enough to read the classifications, they are pretty clear what is considered moped vs ebike.



That seems to be a personal problem, doesn't apply to general ebike riding population.
As usual. You generally don't have explanations.

I know what a moped is I have known what a moped is for a while. It is a throttled vehicle that also has pedals and has been that since 1952 when the term was coined (and technically before that). It was originally a bicycle with a gasoline powered motor at the front the new ones are electric. I don't know what your issue is? Why you have such a odd definition of mopeds that excludes electric stuff? I understand fully you love the mopeds and that is fine. Like I said my opposition is not towards the e-mopeds it is just miscategorizing them. If someone wants to ride an e-moped anywhere throttled vehicles are allowed that is fine. You can still enjoy your stuff that is not my issue.
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Old 02-14-24, 10:52 AM
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A couple of our mopeds, if you wanna call them that. Cheap ebiking,

.
These are our travel mopeds.

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Old 02-14-24, 11:35 AM
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I don't know why we have to have this conversation over and over again. Maybe save it for an ebike thread in General or Road?
I am not sure what motivation for the argument against calling an ebike an ebike. There is no confusion that there isn't a motor involved. Honestly, seems like trolling in this particular forum.
Having said that, there is no question that there are two wheeled vehicles powered by electric motors that aren't ebikes. I just learned yesterday that the Netherlands has another legal category that's faster than an ebike and has stricter requirements. I learned it because the police there now have treadmills where they can test how fast an ebike will go. There are 200 of them in the country.
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Old 02-15-24, 07:55 AM
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Originally Posted by veganbikes
As usual. You generally don't have explanations.

I know what a moped is I have known what a moped is for a while. It is a throttled vehicle that also has pedals and has been that since 1952 when the term was coined (and technically before that). It was originally a bicycle with a gasoline powered motor at the front the new ones are electric. I don't know what your issue is? Why you have such a odd definition of mopeds that excludes electric stuff? I understand fully you love the mopeds and that is fine. Like I said my opposition is not towards the e-mopeds it is just miscategorizing them. If someone wants to ride an e-moped anywhere throttled vehicles are allowed that is fine. You can still enjoy your stuff that is not my issue.

As usual, you assume my personal views instead of reading the articles I supplied.
Articles I supplied may or may not represent my point of view, but you certainly think so.

If you have evidence to support your claim that moped definition has been established since 1952, why don't you provide a link to it?
No link, no evidence, you're just full of BS.

You assume that I have an odd definition, when the definition of moped is provided in the articles I linked,
if you ever bother to read them, they are not necessarily my definition.

If you try to understand the articles provided, instead of assuming them to be my definition, maybe you could discuss this topic with facts instead of personal opinion.

Whatever your position is toward e-mopeds, without evidence to support your claims, you're just stating your opinion, and opinions are like a-holes, everybody's got one, and all of them stink.

Originally Posted by unterhausen
I don't know why we have to have this conversation over and over again. Maybe save it for an ebike thread in General or Road?
If you don't know why, maybe you should look up the definition of ebike vs e-moped as I did.

Originally Posted by unterhausen
I am not sure what motivation for the argument against calling an ebike an ebike.
There is no confusion that there isn't a motor involved. Honestly, seems like trolling in this particular forum.
Classification are clearly demostrated in the articles I provided in my earlier posts,

Originally Posted by unterhausen
Having said that, there is no question that there are two wheeled vehicles powered by electric motors that aren't ebikes.
Actually, electric motor, hub motor, mid-drive motor, they are all motor, some are classified as ebike for sure.

Originally Posted by unterhausen
I just learned yesterday that the Netherlands has another legal category that's faster than an ebike and has stricter requirements. I learned it because the police there now have treadmills where they can test how fast an ebike will go. There are 200 of them in the country.
Maybe you can provide a link to what you've read?
What is their legal definition of ebike vs e-moped?

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Old 02-15-24, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by cat0020
As usual, you assume my personal views instead of reading the articles I supplied.
Articles I supplied may or may not represent my point of view, but you certainly think so.

If you have evidence to support your claim that moped definition has been established since 1952, why don't you provide a link to it?
No link, no evidence, you're just full of BS.

You assume that I have an odd definition, when the definition of moped is provided in the articles I linked,
if you ever bother to read them, they are not necessarily my definition.

If you try to understand the articles provided, instead of assuming them to be my definition, maybe you could discuss this topic with facts instead of personal opinion.

Whatever your position is toward e-mopeds, without evidence to support your claims, you're just stating your opinion, and opinions are like a-holes, everybody's got one, and all of them stink.



If you don't know why, maybe you should look up the definition of ebike vs e-moped as I did.



Classification are clearly demostrated in the articles I provided in my earlier posts,



Actually, electric motor, hub motor, mid-drive motor, they are all motor, some are classified as ebike for sure.



Maybe you can provide a link to what you've read?
What is their legal definition of ebike vs e-moped?
You keep hiding behind this veil of "I post articles from the same place every single time but those don't represent me in fact I haven't said anything about my views ever" You act like what you post is somehow written by someone else and doesn't hold any view points of your own. It is ridiculous every time you say something or do something around here it feels like you are saying "no I didn't that was someone else using my name" just own up to your own stuff or continue being a B.S. artist and just use the tag line "B.S. artist" so nobody is confused.

I post my opinions and am honest about them, why can't you be?

The term moped can easily be searched but the source from where I saw it a long time ago: was this: https://web.archive.org/web/20070205...ag_2002_24.pdf
It was a term coined by a Swedish Journalist Harald Nielsen.
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Old 02-15-24, 10:15 AM
  #25  
Ride more, eat less
 
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Philla PA, Hoboken NJ, Brooklyn NY
Posts: 2,062

Bikes: Too many but never enough.

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Originally Posted by veganbikes
You keep hiding behind this veil of "I post articles from the same place every single time but those don't represent me in fact I haven't said anything about my views ever" You act like what you post is somehow written by someone else and doesn't hold any view points of your own. It is ridiculous every time you say something or do something around here it feels like you are saying "no I didn't that was someone else using my name" just own up to your own stuff or continue being a B.S. artist and just use the tag line "B.S. artist" so nobody is confused.

I post my opinions and am honest about them, why can't you be?
My viewpoint isn't something you need to care about.
I've no need to disclose my opinion to you or anyone.
Like I said in my previous post: opinions are like a-holes,
everyone's got one and all of them stink.
Opinions are not valid when you can't provide sources to support your opinion.
You can say the sky is red and water is dry in your opinion all day long,
but that doesn't make a valid opinion.

Originally Posted by veganbikes
The term moped can easily be searched but the source from where I saw it a long time ago: was this: https://web.archive.org/web/20070205...ag_2002_24.pdf
It was a term coined by a Swedish Journalist Harald Nielsen.
Maybe if you provide a link in English so most of the readers can understand?
When was the term moped coined?
Did Harald Nielsen know about the distinction between ebike vs e-moped when he coined the term?

Discussion is about ebike vs e-moped, not moped in general.
Maybe if you understand the discussion instead of worrying about my opinion,
you could have better discussion related posts instead of your opinion?

You've stated:
Originally Posted by veganbikes
Also please be aware a throttled vehicle is not a bicycle.
Based on what?
Can you provide a source or evidence to support that opinion?
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Last edited by cat0020; 02-15-24 at 10:28 AM.
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