mooooo

How difficult is it to pedal these bikes without assist? What would be the main differences? I plan to ride mostly at the gravel (but smooth) covered bike path.
100% for leisure purposes.

veganbikes

Both are a going to be more difficult without assist. The problem is they are hub drives so all that weight of the motor is placed in something you need to rotate and rotational weight is the worst weight to have to move.

I would highly recommend looking at the Specialized SL line up. Nice and light well integrated with a mid-drive motor made in conjunction with German brand Mahle. I have a Vado SL especially 6.0 or something (it has been semi customized with electronic shifting and better brakes and some other nice parts) and absolutely love it. It is not bad pedaling without assist but it isn't great but way better than my R+M Supercharger 2 but that has two batteries and weighs a ton. If I wanted less weight the Carbon Creo would be excellent for that and can be swapped to a flat bar set up (we did quite a few before the Vado SL came out) but I like the Vado a bit more, especially being more upright and having the ability for a rack.

You could also look at bikes equipped with the Bosch SX system or Fazua which are two other lightweight mid-drives. I haven't had time with Fazua yet at least not enough to render opinion but I can say Bosch generally knocks it well out of the park however I have yet to try the new SX system (which is their lightweight motor battery set up)

mooooo

Thank you for the recommendation. Searching Bosch website, Cannondale Adventure Neo 4 maybe good one. Since I am new to ebike, let me ask differently. I am looking for the following in ebike.

1. Recreation only.
2. Looking for a reliable quality bike, preferably from a well known brand. (not a startup/etc)
3. I want it to be a bike first, not a motorcycle. So lighter the better.
4. My budget is under $4000 (doesn't mean I want to spend $4000 but upto $4000)
5. Range is probably not an issue. I will ride less than 20 miles. (I usually ride less than 10 miles but this could increase with ebike)
6. Another consideration is my bike rack only supports upto 40lbs. willing to buy new rack if that's what I have to do.

What bike would you recommend?

2old

If you reside in an area with an REI (or bike shops) test ride a few models. My DIY errand bike has a large rear hub motor and pedals easily, but you can decide for yourself what's appropriate. Your best bet is an LBS which carries Specialized, Trek or Giant bikes (and a Specialized model would be my choice). My bike rides fine, but hasn't had the wires shortened and "hidden". Surprisingly (to me), the rear wheel weighs about 18 pounds and so does the rest of the bike (without battery).

Rick_D

IDK if any bike within your budget uses it, but the TQ mid drive rides "like a bike" powered off. I warm up on mine at least a couple miles before accessing boost and it's indistinguishable from any nice bike the same weight (mine is 30#). If not in reach, any system that mimics it should be similar. Am not personally versed in the array of drive systems, and there are a LOT, but think ideally you want a hybrid cadence-torque sensor system. No unanticipated boost surprises; multiple programmable boost modes.

Mid drive keeps rear wheel flat repair/tire swap the same as a regular bike.

TQ lists several models that have their system.

https://www.tq-ebike.com/en/bikes/

Good luck!

veganbikes

My recommendations are really not going to change much. If you want to avoid a startup then Bosch is the way to go, they have been around since the 1880s granted not all doing e-bike motors but they have been in the motor game for quite sometime and even the e-bike game since 2009 (I believe). However Mahle who helped make the motor with Specialized for the SL line has been around since 1920 so also not strangers to the motor game but newer to e-bikes.

If you want to avoid the motorcycle thing then Bosch is a good way to go in that they don't do throttles and have no interest in throttles. Specialized doesn't do throttles either.

In terms of racks if your rack can only handle 40lbs total I would not use that rack for any bike. If the per bike weight is 40lbs it is still a bit low for an e-bike granted yes you can get a bike that is in that weight range but I would rather have something I can trust with my bike but also everyone behind me. I don't want a rack to fail ever.

I would take a look at the Vado SL 4.0 in terms of what you are looking for it ticks pretty much most if not all the boxes minus the first one but that is a silly box, bikes can do anything and the Vado is a fine bike for recreation but also commuting and even touring so it can do all sorts of stuff easily.

2old

Many bikes have removable batteries, so you can "lose" six - 12 pounds if it's a consideration. Also, there are lots of possibilities if you're a DIY type. This bike is just under 40 pounds (without battery) with a Bafang BBS02 system, and with no "blingy"/light components (it's an 18 year or so old Trek that had been used for MTB). My first BBS02 was used off road for seven years without maintenance or failure, then given to my son who has been riding it for the last two years without incident.