I'm learning more about ebikes.
 

Even ones up to $1K lack enough torque for long grades or steep hills on motor only. How much should one expect to pay for a quality ebike with at least 85 newton-meters of torque?

I live in central Iowa near Des Moines. Nakto has a nice cargo bike, F4 model, for about a grand but it seems to sorely lack uphill torque. Also lacks seat height adjustment.


I am age 61, 325 pounds and have a German Shepherd dog I want to lead on leash. My ideal electric bicycle should ride well at low speeds under motor only or pedal assist. It should pull any grade in Polk County, Iowa on paved streets or bike trails. I would like at least 20 miles on a single charge on hilly terrain. I want an ebike on a frame designed originally for e-biking. Not a standard bicycle converted. I want a fat cruiser seat and taller apehangers or cruiser-style handlebars. Not a mountain bike. I want a comfortable street bike to pull those grades. I like the idea of cargo racks and baskets but I need to clamp on one of those dog rods to lead my dog. I have asthma and obesity. I need reliable motor assist until I get into better shape. I don't want to spend over $3K. Are the prices progressively coming down on better quality ebikes with gobs of hill-climbing torque? I don't need a fast bike, a slower bike will do for dog exercising but I need to make the serious grades without suffering a heart attack.

To make the long short, I want a comfortable, torky, well-built, reliable utilitarian ebike of a reputable trademark with excellent support from the manufacturer geared for heavy loads AND NOT FOR DEMONIC SPEEDS on flats. I like the name Cannondale but they don't seem to make torky and comfortable city e bikes with high newton-meter ratings.

Please make suggestions. Thanks.

Is this something I will have to custom build?

Dogs connected to bikes are not a great combination for a bunch of reasons.

If you want a more efficient higher torque bike you will want to actually spend money on the bike. Yes there are certainly vehicles that cost the same as a basic low initial cost hybrid and also manage to have electric bits and bobs but the quality and support just cannot be there and if you want certain specs you are unlikely to get there, they are designed just to hit a price point and that means compromises everywhere.

I would look at something with a Bosch Performance line motor which is going to be 85nm of torque or look at one of the Brose S motors which is 90nm and both are good reliable well supported motors/e-bike systems. They are also mid-drives so you eliminate the inefficiencies of the hub drive and you can have a stronger rear wheel which is going to help with the extra weight. These might not be in those lower initial price points but long term will be a better option.

Good luck with the weight loss and good luck finding bikes. Your local shop is likely to be a good place to start especially if they know e-bikes!

Custom build means DIY (to me) and you can easily achieve your goals in that manner. However most OEM bikes don't have throttles. I suggest you start by looking at Specialized Globe or (Trek) Electra. You'll need to test ride the bikes to ensure they meet your criteria. Don't worry about the seat since you can procure a nice "Cloud" or equivalent for < $50. I have < $1K in this bike and it probably would suffice.
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...2fc8c4a654.jpg

I have a German Shepherd puppy that will need a lot of exercise as a big dog. I also have mobility issues. There is special equipment to attach a dog to bicycle, electric or pedal-only. If I go to my local high school football track, I would be safe away from automobile traffic and the track would be flat so I would not need much torque from an electric two-wheel vehicle in that case. So an el-cheapo 250/350-Watt motor e-bike like a Nakto Camel should suffice if I stick to school campuses and park bikeways. There are also city parks with bike-ways in and around Polk County/Des Moines, Iowa and not much gradient on them as well. My dog has to be leashed in most cases to follow park rules. I cannot walk far. Knee, leg and ankle pain issues. I can roll much farther even on a pedal bicycle. If I can move on wheels while safely exercising my dog, that would be an advantage. I also have a trunk rack to transport a bike by automobile. Here is my current customized Schwinn Discover city bike on it. I am only 5-10 with a 30" inseam. This 700C bike is too tall for me to plant both feet firmly on the ground while seated. I can ride it without a dog in tow but a 26" model bike with a step-thru frame would even be best with towing dogs in mind.


https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...4090d14f73.jpg

Here is my new baby boy, Gustav, whelped April 10, 2025:



https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...3e83e55231.jpg
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...cf9fd5a935.jpg
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...a6b4abdd90.jpg

I can probably make this Nakto Camel thing work out for me if I stick to flat bike trail riding and rig it properly for safe dog leading.

I don't know diddly squat about e-bikes, but it wasn't the larger issue of higher bike torque solved about 100 years ago with the invention of variable gearing?

Diesel-electric locomotives for railway trains were invented some 100 years ago. The electric traction motors put out massive amounts of torque at all speeds whether 1 mph or 100 mph. They have a flat, uniform torque curve so no transmission gearing is needed. It's all in the motor windings. Torque in America is often expressed in foot-pounds and not newton-meters.

Maybe a pack of Huskies to pull you around ?

No, one dog is enough as it is. I am trying to be serious here.

If you decide on an inexpensive, fat tire folding bike, watch out for weight problems since some are close to 70 pounds and neither easy to lift nor suitable for your bike rack. Since you live near Des Moines you should have plenty of bike shops nearby. Also, you're going to need to think about inclement weather in bike selection. Again, look at Specialized Globe or Trek Townie (both have step through models; the Trek has 26" wheels, the Globe, 20"). If you delete the need to ascend steep hills look at the $800 Lectric bike (folding, < 50 pounds and good CS).

If you go mid-drive rather than hub motor you can get more torque at the wheel by driving through a lower gear. But at some point you will start to break chains and things. If you go custom or conversion you can also use an illegal motor (I don't know of an official legal limit on torque but there is on speed and power in various jurisdictions, and the torque on an OEM Bosch/Shimano system will be right-sized for those legal use-cases).

I am building a frame that will be used with a (legal) Tong Sheng motor driving through an Alfine 8s for usage which will include mild dog-packing. But I haven't finished it yet so don't know how well it works :)

I bought a used Aventon Sinch ST. It's not particularly powerful, with a 500W motor. I don't use the throttle, but it's fine in hilly Worcester, MA with pedal assist. I pedaled it up Dead Horse Hill without trouble and had plenty of battery left to ride around for an hour. I'm not saying this particular bike is right for you, but you may be over-estimating your need for torque.

https://www.strava.com/activities/14316326414

https://www.hannibal.net/archive/art...f395df64e.html

Sorry to hear about your mobility issues.

I personally bought this, and use it sometimes with my dog.
My dog is half german shepherd and half corgie, but can pull my 225 Lb with his 35 lb body.
https://www.etsy.com/listing/1724220...a%3A1724220950

Have you considered a Trike?

We have a neighbor who has a large malimut, and she bikes her dog daily.
My dog is about 12% of my weight, but can pull me off...into traffic...into trees if I'm not careful.
Thankfully, he and I have a pretty good connection (I steer with whistling and pressure on the leash)

I don't know Torquey, but have looked into something similar for my wife.
She likes upright, balloon tires, stable, and fast/ride into the wind.....plus stepthrough and uber stable.

Marin Stintson-E; Specialized Como, Specialized HaulST, Tern Bikes, Yuba bikes.

While you don't want a non-ebike, a custom DIY is probably more up your alley.
You can have something with more power at a cheaper price.
I've been very tempted to modify my wife's Roll 4.0 with a Bafang, as the frame is beefy chromoly and very comfy and stable.

FWIW, I'm sorely tempted by this bike that will serve you well: It's at $815, but in the SF Bay Area. Shipping would probably eat up savings, and I don't know if it's enough torque for you.

Looking online a bit more, this is probably up your alley:
https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/p...olorCode=black

It's $1200, and can ship closer to you for free.
See if you can try this out sometime in a Trek store nearby.

As an overweight guy, with a dog and not a lot of money, I feel your pain.

Also, I'm super tempted to buy one of these for my wife.

I will probably eventually settle on a Nakto Camel and keep out of hilly places.

That Trek would be a much better option and it is not a great option. Every Nakto I have seen has had problems sometimes problems after problems and Nakto is not very responsive. As the price goes down the quality goes further down.

From your initial description it would seem that you need something more powerful. I doubt the 250w, even 350w if that's available has 40+ nm of torque. IMO, you may be pedaling feverishly on a minor ascent, but good luck and let us know how you like the bike..

This is a drastic oversimplification and locomotives employ a lot of strategies that have an effect similar to throttles and gear shifts and clutches, especially by switching the drive motors from series to parallel. They sometimes have complicated motors with multiple ways of switching the coils that also allow for a series-parallel kind of shift within a single motor. E-bikes can't do this, they have only one simple motor. Locomotives also have high-frequency motor speed controllers like nearly any electric vehicle.

I think your $1000 budget is unrealistic for an e-bike of any quality. My wife's Gazelle cost four thousand. It's kind of deluxe, a bike store brand and a nicer model, but still.

I also think 325 lb plus a potentially 100 lb dog is a big ask. 750 W = about 1 hp, most pedal assist bikes are 250, mail-order throttle bikes higher. You probably don't need to worry about torque because - well, shifters. RAD makes a cargo bike model with a 750 W motor.

Congrats on Gustav! I like the idea of getting him used to physical activity as soon as possible. Gets you both out of the house and helps him relax afterwards.

One completely off-topic idea - what about training him to follow you on the bike without a leash?

Since you've got him young, you can train him to follow the Pack Leader (you) off leash. I think the risk of injury to you or the dog is minimized this way, assuming local ordinances allow well-behaved dogs off leash.

If this seems too much at once, you can always start him on a leash and then train him to follow without one. German Shepherds are smart dogs and I'm sure Gustav would pick it up quickly.

I weigh less than you, but payload capacity is something I evaluated when looking at YouTube videos before purchase. You will always find the occasional smartalec here and there on any forum, so ignore

You will always find the occasional smartalec here and there on any forum, so ignore[/QUOTE]

Not at all 2old, just reading the thread and sometimes the responses without indicating they’re joking can deter ppl

Ah, sorry to see the Cannondale you were looking at in your other post is out-of-budget.

For your stated use, you'll want to look at the weight rating of the bike; they're not all designed to carry a 325 lb. rider. eBikes are a great way to get back into shape though.

As for something for your use under $3k that still has the nice belt drive, there is the Priority Current, but it'll be a bit more leaned forward than you're looking for:
https://www.prioritybicycles.com/pro...zdUKgDt9mgo88F

There's also the Ride1UP Prodigy V2, which is $2600 with the belt drive & CVT:
https://ride1up.com/product/prodigy-v2/

The Lectric One is also a good in in your budget. It has the belt drive and also a Pinion automotive-style gearbox, which are more rugged and will have a wider gear range than the internal gearhubs. Another nice thing about this one is that, since it has 20" wheels and a folding handlebar, it can fit in an SUV a lot easier than either of the aforementioned models.
https://lectricebikes.com/products/l...kxy2d9_5GpDjGP

Since you're buying new, you should find an eBike that has the right posture to begin with, not buy something then retrofit it. The bike's stability will be messed up if you get a forward leaning bike then put a pull-back bar on it.

Another thought crossed my mind while I was looking at the specs on my Aventon Sinch ST a couple days ago: The advertised motor power in watts is pretty much meaningless. It's perhaps useful for comparing models from one brand, but it's not comparable between brands.
My Sinch was advertised as having a 500W motor, but the on-bike display has a screen that reports it as 750W. Either way, even unlocked, motor assist cuts off at 28 MPH on the Turbo (highest) setting.

It is pretty worthless for anything. They use the peak power as the measurement because when you look at the nominal power and the losses from a hub drive it makes those hub drives way less appealing numbers wise. Nominal power is really the only metric in the power that you want to see anyone can give you massive peak numbers but what can it do if powered forever without interruption. The number I really care about is the torque in NM which on say a Bosch or Brose motor is usually 70-100nm

Nothing about a RadPower that is heavy duty, heavy yes, doody yes but don't combine the two. Cheap hub drives, with lower quality frames and it took them how many years to just put some cheap hydraulic brakes on it vs the ultra cheap no-name cable actuated brakes that are not designed around heavy e-bikes and really just for the cheapest of hybrids. I mean people are putting kids on a bike with those things and carrying them around with such poor stopping power and loose low quality parts and call that OK.

Certainly their support has gotten slightly better compared to the others who make similar products but the quality just isn't there and the support isn't great compared to Bosch, Brose, Shimano...

Hydraulic brakes are one of those features that is nice to have but not necessary. Mechanical with decent leverage and the right amount of surface area is enough.

I suspect that Rad decided (after a few lawsuits) to provide better braking than is necessary rather than having to keep showing up in court for when someone overloaded the bike, then burned up the brakes doing down a big hill and crashed.

Seems the original owners may have been sued out of business over perceived braking issues. (class action re. the combination of QR + disc brakes, and then another wrongful death suit for a couple girls who went together on one down a steep hill and found the brakes lacking, piling them into a wall.

I was glad to see through axle design on the front of my Level.2 the other day. The QR skewers on my daughter's XP Lite need monitoring. No safety issue so far, but they get out of alignment and have the brakes rubbing after a bumpy ride.

For an electric bicycle they are necessary 100% because the quality ones are already going to use hydraulic brakes and the cheap ones are using the worst brakes they could find. Yes you could get Paul Klampers or Equal Growtacs or a similar high quality brake and use compressionless housing and polished stainless steel cables but that costs way more money than a simple set of Shimano MT-200s and these cheapo vehicles are probably more likely to use some knockoff or ultra cheap version that is a no-name but is likely to stop a little better than the normal cable brakes they use.