stokell

How do you get away with making such outrageous claims? Show me a survey that proves electric scooters are safer! If you think you are helping your community, you are wrong. I'm sure we could live together if you stopped claiming those scooters are bicycles. Obviously they are not, because local bike shops won't touch them.

By the way, I have an electric bike (real bike with a hub on the wheel) and I get great service and much respect from my LBS.

phinney

I've looked at e-bikes several times but just can't justify going there from both an economic and functional perspective. Batteries need to get a-lot better and less expensive first.

Oshawaebiker

I know I am not going to change you opinion. Is this just about a name. Lets show some maturity and work together. One less car. This bias is tainting the whole industry and making some LBS and riders look like a bunch of spoiled children to the outside world. Is this the image you want everyone to see.
I have heard the complaints and seen it personally. It is to the point that if I want a common part or accessory one has to do it stealthily in order to get served. This is not right nor is it good business practice.

cerewa

The trouble with the most similar gas-powered alternatives is that you're more likely to have to get license/inspection/insurance. With e-bikes, not so much. And the choices for bolt-on-to-a-bicycle gas motor kits tend to be relatively high-pollution (not 4stroke w/fuel injection&catalytic converters) and noisy.

phinney

Mopeds only need a sticker and the sticker is good for three years. No helmet required. A Honda Metropolitan will go over 40 mph safely and is good for 10's of thousands of trouble free miles. Super quiet. Also much more comfortable than a bicycle. Will go way over 100 miles on a fill up and there are gas stations everywhere should you want to go further.

I'd like an electric bike if they didn't weigh so much as to make them useless as a bike and if the range was more realistic. Only 15 or 20 miles of range with an 8 hour refuel is useless for me.

njm

I thought I might ask just one or two questions:

What percentage of time are Veloteq riders pedaling their e-bikes? For example, on a traditional road bike, no electric hub or anything, I'd say people pedal about 85% of the time.

Second, what do you think this marketing image from Veloteq is trying to say?

Golectric

I love Scooter style BIKES. I sell them and service them and they really are bikes. They are much safer on public paths then Open Frame bikes, roller bladers and people wearing headphones. They also are more comfortable and more practical then riding a petal powered bike 15KM to work in 33 degree C temps. I also like riding the other types of bikes but feel safer on my scooter style, especially in traffic. Petal power has its place, it has history and nostalga. No sense arguing if its a bike or not. Thankfully it is considered a bike by LAW and can go anywhere a bike can go.

Some people can see beyond what is, what was and what may be. Keep a closed mind and you can stay in your rut (definition of a rut is a coffin with both ends kicked out) Just for the record, I have met many decent people who want an alternitive to driving their cars. They love the idea of a scooter style e-bike. They would never buy a frame type bike, electric or not. We are all tax payers and we all fund the trail systems being developed. The bikes(dosn't matter which type) are not the problem. It's the people who ride them. So you bashers siting back at your keyboards, typing out pure drival for the sense of trying to prove what???? Please try to relieze that working together we can have bike paths that will be some of the best in the world.

RubenX 

There is a fine line between and electric bicycle and a scooter. IMHO if you don't pedal, it's not a bicycle. However, I've no problems with a nice brushless front hub motor and a battery pack on a rear rack, installed on what used to be a normal bicycle. In fact, I might rig my wife's bike in such a way. She can't keep up with me on rides and a power-assist would be welcomed.

Autoworker

You keep posting the same drivel (via cut and paste, no less) about scooter style bikes being safer than open frame bikes. Please provide some proof! Just stating the same thing over and over doesn't make it true.

My open frame e-bike weighs less than 50lbs. Obviously it's going to accelerate and stop quicker than an e-scooter weighing over 175lbs. It's just simple physics. You might FEEL safer surrounded by all that plastic bodywork, but you're not. And which one is going to be easier to pick up if you drop it, or push home if you have a flat, or your battery runs out?

If you, or anyone else, wants to ride them, sell them, or service them, that's OK by me. JUST DON'T INSIST THAT THEY'RE BICYCLES WHEN THEY'RE NOT!

E-scooters are no more a bicycle than a Vespa or Harley Davidson is a bicycle.

Furthermore, if you really sell them and service them, as you claim, you should know the difference between "petal" and "pedal". Personally, I wouldn't trust any of my bikes to someone who didn't.

Petal: "One of a circle of modified leaves immediately outside the reproductive organs of a flower; usually brightly colored."

Pedal: "A lever for the foot usually applied only to musical instruments, cycles, and other machines."

adamtki

If this limitation is preventing you from getting out of your car, then you'll have to wait. The best ebikes generally will give you about 30 miles of ASSISTED range on a 4 hour recharge. However, if you this limitation is preventing you from changing over from a regular bicycle, then, I don't see it as a valid excuse unless you need to bike more than 30 miles in one day on a regular basis.

Golectric

I love Scooter style BIKES. I sell them and service them and they really are bikes. They are much safer on public paths then Open Frame bikes, roller bladers and people wearing headphones. They also are more comfortable and more practical then riding a pedal powered bike...

That better :0)

I agree, Scooter style bikes are not BICYCLES, but by law during the 3 year pilot program they are permitted to travel wherever a bicycle is. They are not considered motorized vehicles. They only assit up to 32km. They have pedals that are capable of propelling the machine and have an electric motor rated for not more the 500 watts continuous measured at the shaft.

Autoworker

Just repeating the same BS over and over, aren't we?

WHERE'S THE PROOF???

Oh, and by the way, you used the word "petal" again in your last post. Check your last sentence.

(Who wants to bet that Golectric addresses the "petal" issue in his next post, but still doesn't provide the proof I'm asking for?)

Golectric

Thats what the pilot program is for

Can you offer some proof as to why they are not??

Zeuser

So he said "petal" instead of "pedal". Big f'ing deal.

People make typing mistakes on the net all the time. Go around the web a few times and grow up.

Zeuser

Character assassination? I didn't need to do anything, YOU DID IT YOURSELF!

You think it needs balls to get a motorcycle licence? Just how dumb are you? It doesn't need balls, it's just money and skills. If you've got the skills to drive a gas scooter, you've got the skills to drive an e-scoot.

Of course I think that e-scoots whould remain on the street and off the bike trails.

But my point, and I still maintain you're being one hell of a stupid person with this, is that attacking people who are giving up their cars for e-scoots, is really counter-productive.

But now that "autoworker" isn't just an alias, it seems to be your profession; that would explain why you refuse e-bikes and want us to buy cars instead.

PS: I have a Bionx powered mountain bike. Most people can't even tell it's an electric bike, it looks like just any other mountain bike.

stokell

You are making the assertion, the burden of proof is on you.

who was it that said "A lie repeated often enough becomes the truth"?

That's what I'm hearing here. The pilot program is not to prove electric scooters are safer than bicycles. On their own web site the Ontario Government quite clearly states:
"The goal of Ontario's pilots is to test and evaluate the operation and regulation of:

• power-assisted bicycles as conventional bicycles on Ontario roads; operators must be 16 years of age or older and all operators must wear an approved bicycle helmet, and
• low-speed vehicles driven by park employees who have a valid driver's licence in a controlled, low-speed park environment.

I know you think you'll make a lot of money selling these electric scooters, and I wish you luck. Don't call them bicycles and don't make claims you can't substantiate.

hippiehunter

Aside from the idea of looking cooler because you're on a scooter instead of a bike I still have a really hard time understanding why someone would want one over a MTB or a recumbent. At the same time its one less hummer and I would rather live with a bunch of dumb(image obsessed) scooters then a bunch of blind SUVs.

Back to the reasons for a scooter.... ive seen people here argue that they are safer but I haven't the slightest clue why. Ive seen people say they are more comfortable but they couldn't possibly be better then a nice laz-e-boy style recumbent. The one thing I wonder about is aero dynamics, seeing as how scooters are usually rounded and stuff do they have less drag then a regular MTB?

Autoworker

(1.) I agree with you 100% about keeping them off the bike trails

(2.) Actually, I'm an industrial maintenance electrician who just happens to work at an auto assembly plant. I'm a big supporter of e-bikes, just not e-scooters. I think they are pretentious, and a waste of good plastic. I also think that the world would be better off with LESS cars. And, no, I'm not worried about my job. I have 32 yrs. seniority, and could retire tomorrow if I choose to.

(3.) I, too, have a Bionx powered bike. Mine is a Dahon Jetstream P8, with full suspension. You're right, it's very stealthy, and most people can't tell it's electric. I took off all the Bionx labels from the battery on the cross tube; that helps with the stealth, too. I'm trying to find a black helmet cover to put over it, so it just looks like another bag.

(4.) It seems that we actually have more in common than you think. Wanna go ride sometime?

Autoworker

Up until I pointed out the difference between "petal" and "pedal", Golectric used the word "petal" consistently whenever he was talking about pedals. It wasn't just a one-time typo. And this guy sells and services e-scooters? Methinks he's just in it for the money.

I haven't grown up yet in 54yrs and I'm not about to now, on the advice of some stranger on the internet that I don't even know.

Golectric

So I called a petal a pedal, or visa versa. Of course I'm in it for the money. It's a great thing to be a part of. Stokell, I think your ride blogs are fantastic! Great work. Autoworker, I hope you can rethink your position. My opinion on the safety of these is based on riding them. How can you or anyone else make a case against them when you have not rode one? I have ridden a bionx system and they are great but it still dosn't appeal to a large segment of the population. The E-scoots are very different then a conventional bike but they are similar in many ways. They look very wide but that is a deception because of the body work. The plastic fairings cut the wind and also protect the rider. They also would absorb impact better then the soild front end of a conventional bike. They are similar in power rating and can not be pedaled faster then 32km where as I'm sure your bionx bike can be? What are the reasons to treat them differently then a bicycle?

It's so easy to let emotion get in the way of good judgement. Lets keep this thread on track and really deal with why people have problems with scooter style bikes.

adamtki

The common sense that people have is that the bigger it is, the more dangerous it is. So you're making a claim that's counterintuitive. So I'd like to know why you think e-scoots are safer for other people than bicylists and roller bladers. I cannot see how that can be. An inattentive e-scooter will cause more damage to others than an inattentive biker or blader.

electrogreen

Thar you go again! Can you prove this or is it just your imagination or opinion? My opinion is just as good as yours or stockels, but unless you have a few studies to back it up you can't go around saying electric scooters are safer than bikes.

BS baffles brains! I think it was Goebels who said if you repeat lies enouigh people will believe it.

Golectric

Electric scooters are safer then bikes

Golectric

Sure, I can say what I want. I have said that it is not the bike, it is the rider. It's alright for people to post assumtions the bigger and heavier means more dangerous. It's alright for people to call others and then tell them to STFU
It's alright for people to quote Nazi war criminals.

Give me a break!

Autoworker

HEAVIER = SLOWER ACCELERATION, LONGER STOPPING DISTANCES, LESS RANGE, + GREATER DAMAGE UPON IMPACT, AS WELL AS GREATER DIFFICULTY UPRIGHTING A FALLEN BIKE. AND HOW EASY ARE THEY TO PEDAL HOME WHEN THEY RUN OUT OF JUICE, DUE TO THEIR EXCESSIVE WEIGHT?

This is just Physics 101. THEY ARE NOT SAFER THAN ANYTHING!!! THEY ARE HEAVIER, SLOWER, AND USE UP MORE RESOURCES IN THEIR MANUFACTURE, SHIPPING, AND DAY-TO-DAY USE!

Their only justification is to appeal to those who don't want to be seen riding a "lowly" bicycle, but want to appear to be riding a "cool" scooter, without having to pay the insurance and licensing costs involved, or having to develop the required skills necessary to pass the licensing tests.