-=(8)=-

"How about this, if it can be serviced in a LBS, then it deserves a place here."

I feel for Joe watching his great work be undone by stuff like this.

How about this.....if it is a bike, it deserves a place here.
Not mopeds, segways, scooters, motorcycles or e-peds.
Bicycles. Just the bikes, please.

There are too many categories already. If you look at 'viewing' most of these new splinter
categories you will see 4, 8, 10. You could add any category and a few people will
check it out, but is it worth watering down the forum with it, overall ? No.

Sianelle 

Then I must apologise for overlooking your excellent suggestion

I think that using LBS serviceability as a filter for what may or may not be discussed has merit, but I'm not entirely sure how many bike shops would put up their hand when it comes to e.bike servicing never mind the possibility of a shop servicing a gas powered bike.

Sianelle 

In my opinion, if it's possible to remove the powerplant and still have a rideable bicycle then it fits here.
Mopeds, segways, scooters, motorcycles and e-peds are NOT bicycles and if you remove the motor/engine the thing don't go no more.

No Segway will ever get discussed here because if anything is representative of lazyness on a stick a Segway would be it
Motorcycles lost their relationship to the bicycle around the beginning of the 20th Century and I won't stand for those either. I used to own a 1980s heavyweight lump of a motorcycle until I was medically forbidden to have anything to do with it anymore due to this illness I live with. The joy of rediscovering the true 'motor-bicycle' of the veteran 'heroic' era has been profound and I delight in the sensation of riding a proper real steel prewar bicycle fitted with a motorised attachment. Nobody needs a 1200cc motorcycle. Every fine Summer Sunday morning I see endless streams of aging motorcycle potatoes sitting astride their small car sized Harley clones passing by my gate. No doubt all trying to leave their boring lives in the city behind and hoping that the present finance crash won't result in their great lumpy bike being repossessed.

A proper motor-bicycle

phinney

Sianelle,

From the ignorance of internal combustion assisted bicycle technology expressed in this thread one reason to allow discussion of them would be to provide much needed education on the topic.

Benefits of ICE assist:
- economical - a very good ICE bike costs about the same or less than a good quality road bike
- practical - much faster than a pedal only bike, refuel in minutes at any gas station, go over 100 miles between refueling, commute to work even if it's 30 miles away
- legality - in many places they are treated the same as a bicycle, in many more places they are treated as a moped with minimal license expense (total cost for me in Michigan is $2.50/year)
- fun - since it is a bicycle they ride and handle just like a bicycle, the joy I get riding my pedal only bicycle in the country I also get on my ICE bike - excellent for those that can't pedal very far without assist
- A Whizzer sounds so cool!

One of the biggest differences I've experienced is the enhanced courtesy of car drivers. Coasting uphill at 30mph gets noticed! My Whizzer looks like a WWII era bicycle. Drivers notice it and generally behave better than when I'm on the pedal bike. The most common question is how many miles per gallon does it get (125).

I looked into ebikes and they can't do the job for me. ICE bikes are still bikes but are a huge improvement over taking the car everywhere that's too far to pedal. There are likely others that may come to this forum investigating whether electric assist would allow them to use their car less. At least a sticky with basic information on ICE would be of benefit to those for whom an ebike won't do the job.

-=(8)=-

Therein lies the conundrum.......people get alt powered 2 wheelers because
"the thing don't go " without the engine....get it ?

Although I agree with you about the Segway, why cant that explanation be applied
to people who buy e.bikes ??

Please understand I am not trying to be combative or antagonistic, I am just
very against the splintering of forums that has gone on in the last year and now
even considering a gas powered subforum is a new low I have no choice but to be
a very vocal "anti" about. It just seems wrong and not in the spirit of the original
intention of the forum which is the one I support.



It used to be so simple

Abneycat

I agree with you on the technical side. But the presence of the gasoline engine, which is what is being discussed, is what removes the bicycle and introduces a vehicle which is for all purposes a low speed motorcycle. Cycling infrastructure in green spaces is not designed for them, cyclists don't enjoy riding with them, and they really don't fit in anywhere but on the road as a vehicle - the same as a motor vehicle.

Whereas electric bicycles mesh with bicycling activities with the same level of freedom as a regular bicycle in many cases, what is left in the gas bike is that they have the chassis of a bicycle, but the soul and purpose of a scooter or LSM.

But, i'm not 100% opposed to them having a presence here, after considering it. They can serve a useful purpose, and I suppose that their technical discussion could have a good tie-in, as could their users benefit from forums like Utility or Commuting. Perhaps while I find them to be a motorized vehicle more so than a bicycle, there is always more room for recognizing bicycles for their value in practicality, rather than solely as a recreational toy.

I'd like to note that my vote is being shifted to " Only if they have their own sticky thread."

BroadwayJoe

I do agree with your logic. However, with a total of only 52 votes over the past several days I think this argument is probably - making a mountain out of a molehill. If you change the forum title to "assisted" or leave it "electric" how many people are really gonna care? 50 or so give or take the Ontario Sheriff? LOL...

I will follow all forms of powered bicycles regardless what the forum title sez because I love efficient hybrid propulsion. Any way you get there is fine with me as long as whatever you're using doesn't pose much serious threat of damage/injury to me, my family or others...

imo - gassers should never be allowed on bike paths and they should not be louder than average traffic on the streets. I also think all riders of any "bike" need more defensive training.

currently, I don't need oil power but if I did I'm just glad I live in a country that allows me to use it.

Sianelle 

I must agree about the gassers on bike paths thing. I know I wouldn't do it as it would just be plain bad manners to take an IC engine there.

BroadwayJoe

See - one more legit reason to discuss related technology. How else will we know the thoughts and ideas of others?

best...

maddyfish

The chain broke after only maybe 50 miles.
The way the gear attaches is to the non drive side of the wheel. It uses a sort of sandwich with bolts around the spokes. Before the chain let go, it looked wobbly.
I'm going to get a chain, then put it together, then take pics, and start a thread about it.

kbdog

Just to be the devil's advocate, weren't electric bike people complaining about being excluded and marginalized by the greater bicycle community? I don't think any laws of the universe (or even Ontario) will be violated by simply discussing a topic.

phinney

I don't frequent bike paths but the ones I've seen prohibit all motorized vehicles, not just ICE powered.

Sianelle 

You have to spend some time making sure the sprocket is running true when it comes to tightening all those bolts. And it pays to check them often during the running in period. Don't use the original kit bolts, get some proper grade 6 fasteners on the job. Loctite is your friend.

buzzman

which should clearly indicate that vibration is your enemy.

And vibration translates into noise, poor efficiency and eventual mechanical failures.



I mean what we are encouraging is the equivalent of having people riding around on leaf blowers, lawn mowers, chain saws and weed whackers. Think about what all these machines have in common- INCESSANT NOISE. In addition to that imagine that your neighbor decided, in the interest of economy and/to save oil chose to install an old style coal burner. The soot and pollution from this inefficient technology blowing into the air around you. And if you complain they say, "Hey, but look at all the oil I'm saving!" But I ask at what price? There are far better technologies including a simple pedal bicycle or an electric assist motor that can accomplish the same things with better efficiency and less noise and pollution.

johnnydanger16

I purchased an expensive e bike at the begining of spring, and i have to say i was not very impressed. I ended up selling it. I picked up a beach cruiser with a 2 stroke motor on it and it by far exceeds the ebike in every catagory. Just my 2 cents. These guys have some real cool bikes. I will post a link

https://custommotorizedbicycles.net

Sianelle 

Yes that is true about the maddening howl of small yard engines. However it is possible with a little care and fabrication to devise better exhaust systems; - and at least on a bicycle there is more room for them which usually isn't true in the case of the donor yard tool. To tell the complete truth I don't really like the use of high reving yard tool engines as bicycle engines and I much prefer to use something a little more designed for the purpose.
Um..... actually where I live we have unbelieveable amounts of cheap coal and firewood so nobody uses oil heating anyway. I've never really noticed any nuisance from my neighbours' fireplaces and chimneys, but then on the other hand we get a pretty steady prevailing wind that clears it away. I was considering devising a small wind generator for charging my electric tricycle and to provide emergency lighting in Winter when a passing storm system takes out the local power grid like it did a couple of days ago.

kymics

There seems to be a lot of assumptions being made about gas powered bikes in this thread. To start, it would be very difficult to mount a lawnmower engine on a bike without busting the frame. Lawnmower engines are usually around 3.5HP - 6HP. The gas engines used on bikes are almost always 50cc or less (with the exception of the Chinese 70cc kits) to maintain legality which pits them around 1HP - 1.5HP.

Two-stroke motors are known to be a bit loud but 4-strokes can be very quiet. Try doing a search on YouTube for some videos of 4-stroke bikes and judge for yourself the volume.

Many people view a gas-powered bike as an alternative to a car, not an alternative to an electric bike. For practical purposes an electric bike can not be viewed as an alternative to a car because of limited range. Depending on your perspective, getting a car off the road is a good thing at any cost.

Bike trails are fine if they exist, but some people (like myself) use a bike as straight utility transportation to get from point A to point B. I would say that most gas-powered bike operators are conscientious about their surroundings and wouldn't go down some nature trail at full-bore just because it's 'their right'. Most gas bikes come with a kill switch that allows the user to stop the engine at any time and continue to pedal the bike manually.

Is everyone who drives an electric bike an environmental activist too? I ask this because 'in theory' all those dead batteries will be properly disposed of or recycled, where as in actuality many won't bother with the hassle and will just put them out with the trash. In the same way, cars with worn out catalytic converters aren't always replaced with new ones. Some drivers just cut out the converter and let all that pipe pollution flow right on through.

If one of the main purposes of this forum is to hold up the environment then it should be clearly stated when new users sign up. If it's just about people who use bikes, then I think gas conversation has its place as well.

Zeuser

Then get the gas bikes their own forum. Or if you rename the "electric bike" forum to "power assisted bikes", that can work too.

But I guarantee mixing gas bikes with electric bikes will cause confusion, especially regarding legalities of each. It has elsewhere and it will here too.

Zeuser

Listen up: I was replying directly to an Ontario poster. There are many of us here. Last time I checked, this forum wasn't for everyone else but Ontarians either.

Zeuser

Ebikes aren't considered motor vehicles by law. eBikes are allowed on bike paths just about everywhere. I checked this out for all of Canada before I got my own eBike so I could be sure.

So...

ICE powered = no bike paths
Electric = bike paths

johnnydanger16

I'm from calgary, just thought i would post the laws for power bicycles here. Perfectly legal. Its a shame some provinces are so narrow minded. I personally feel if you can take an ebike on the path, it should be the same for gas.

DEFINITION
2. (1) In this Bylaw:
(c) "bicycle" means a cycle propelled by human power on which a person can ride,
regardless of the number of wheels it has, and includes a vehicle that:
(i) may be propelled by muscular or mechanical power;
(ii) is fitted with pedals that are continually operable to propel it;
(iii) weighs not more than 35 kilograms;
(iv) has a motor that produces not more than 750 watts and that is driven by electricity or
has an engine displacement of not more than 50 cubic centimetres;
(v) has no hand or foot operated clutch or gearbox driven by the motor that transfers the
power to the driven wheel; and
(vi) does not have sufficient power to enable it to obtain a speed greater than 35
kilometres per hour on level ground within a distance of 2 kilometres from a standing
start;
(q.2) "High Occupancy Vehicle" means a bus (whether or not operated by Calgary
Transit), any motor vehicle with two or more occupants (excluding an unborn
child), or a bicycle;

Zeuser

I disagree. If I lived right next to a path, like the Glen Erin Trail in Mississauga, I wouldn't want to have a "putt putt... brrrr... pow" zipping around my back yard.

eBikes on the other hand a very quiet. Nobody can hear me coming. Most people can't tell I've got an electric motor on the bike.

Sianelle 

I must agree, it's not a question of whether or not it's legal to ride a gas powered bike on a path, but whether or not it's good manners to do so.
As I said I wouldn't do it.

dinges

I don't really see much of a reason for not allowing gas-powered bicycles on this forum too just like electric-powered bicycles. The argument that 'electric bikes don't pollute' doesn't hold true: the electricity its battery was charged with was most likely produced in a gas, coal or nuclear powered plant. (And *yes*, I know small gas engines are perhaps dirtier than a well-engineered electric power plant. But it becomes just a matter of degrees then, doesn't it ? How much 'pollution' is allowed for it to be a valid topic on the forum...).

Sianelle, I *very* much like the picture in your original post. A pulsejet powered bike. Reminded me of an old project of mine, a home-built pulsejet engine. Was a popular project in the '50s. Extremely noisy engines , with a typical sound. I bet riding one of those in the streets over here (Netherlands) would give many a senior citizen a cardiac arrest (the German V1 'buzzbomb' used a pulsejet for its propulsion. Bad memories). Not sure about their fuel efficiency and pollution.

So, if I were to build a pulsejet-powered bicycle like this guy (Kiwi too, incidentally) : https://www.aardvark.co.nz/pjet/

would that be an allowable topic on this forum ?

Sianelle