morph999 

I've already built an e-bike. It's a 48v forsen with 12v 9ah batteries and I'm disappointed in it. I'm surprised more people aren't talking about these things. The batteries are SLAs. People were telling me that I'd get 10 mile range or 15 miles range out of them. YEAH RIGHT. Today, I got one mile range out of them. ONE MILE !!! And I had to pedal the whole way back home. This was my 2nd ride on the bike. I don't know if the batteries are bad or what is going on but someone help me. Should I give up on e-biking and get a motorcycle or what?

I want 35 mph of constant speed and 10 mile range. Is that possible? Today, I floored it the whole way and I guess I was too hard on the throttle and used up the batteries in only one mile. 35 mph and 10 mile range can someone show me a kit or a combination of parts that will do that?

I was thinking of the phoenix racer because it's a big motor. I weigh 230 lbs so it's going to have to be a big motor to get me going anyway. So do I need a Phoenix Racer and a 48v 20ah lifepo4 to do this ? Is that the only way? That's a lot of money. Or could I do it with 12v 18ah SLAs ? Is that possible? Maybe these batteries that I have are bad. I bought them off of someone else who claimed that they were new but maybe he lied.

alswiseowl

hi there,
im no expert at ebikes,
but i do know anything under 12amp are not worth it...
ive got a 400watt 36v 14amp sla batt set up.its heavy but fun.
cruising at about 35(kph) i get about 30 kilometers distance,thats on mostly flat ground..occasional peddling..

i recently bought some new 12v 7amp batterys,which only give me about 2-3kilometers distance , @ about 28 kph,i also was very disapointed in the 7amp batterys..doesnt make sense
but with the 14amp batterys, i get good speed + distance..so definatly more amps is a big plus in my books....my next purchase for batts will be thru ( pingbattery.com)...

i got advice from this forum that pingbattery.com sells good priced lipo batterys

as for which kit to go for,
im not to sure.sorry but ive read crystalyte sells powerful kits
hope this helps & good luck

martybucs

A constant 35mph isn't legal for an e-bike in the US or I think Canada, so it may be illegal in lots of places.
Bicycles aren't designed for sustained high speeds as that and I think you're flirting with serious injury there.

I think you should change your expectations or go with a licensed, motor or electric scooter for those speeds and range. The electric scooters and motorcycles capable of those speeds and range are rather expensive, though.

I have a Bionx kit on my bike and live in a very hilly area. I get about 20 miles of range with lots of pedaling and a speed of about 20 mph on flats, 35 mph downhill and about 11 mph going up a steep hill.

Ypedal

7ah sla's are useless... for anything over a 200w system..

12ah sla's are the standard 20 mile range at 20mph

35 mph + requires a properly built rig.. with adequate batteries.. disk brakes.. full face DH helmet.. gloves.. and titanium balls, mine are anodized aluminum for light weight !

ecowheelz

I agree with martybucs... you might be asking for trouble with such high of expectations of an e-bike. Sure, the Crystalyte Phoenix system is rated up to 36mph... but this is with an average rider weight (about 150lbs) and under perfect road conditions (no hills or inclines). Plus, most bicycles aren't built to withstand these conditions for extended periods of time.

If you want to get more range out of your current system, it might be worth upgrading the batteries. Upgrading the amperage to 18ah will definitely improve your range - and you should get 10 miles out of it. Of course, you should have got more than 1 mile out of your current batteries! It's possible they're bad...

If you're looking for LiFePo4, PING seems to be a reliable source - but it's going to cost you!

crackerdog

Ping batteries are probably not going to work because they are not designed for that much amperage. Generally, figure 1ah per mile range and you will be fine. However, I am not familiar with electric motorcycles that can go 45 mph top speed (if you need it to hold a constant 35mph) SLA batteries have a Perkett (sp?) effect so you lose 25 to 30% at large amp draw. You might want to check out Endless Sphere, some guys have some big systems on their bikes and it is a very technical site.

morph999 

hmmm maybe I'm being unreasonable. I'm going to find out today how fast my current bike goes. I'm thinking either I'm going to put 5 12v14ah lead acid batteries on the back or 2 36v16ah lifepo4's.

La Bicyclette

That would be one huge lead acid battery pack. You're gonna have to keep the weight low somehow, otherwise a top-heavy bike sucks. And if you go lithium that's at least $1000 ($500 is a fair price for 36v16ah), but having two separate lithium packs could be tricky and require modifying the BMS too possibly.

cerewa

If you're worried about price you might want a gas powered scooter.

For electric, lead batteries might be the way to go for you, but they don't last long when they are discharged all the way every time. Ping's and other low-cost LiFePO4 batteries are not made lots of amps (they are better for long range at low power.)

Most systems get their worst efficiency when they're run full throttle at low speed. You can save a little juice without going much slower, by using the throttle at less than 100% while you are at low speed.

With lead batteries, you'll probably need more than 9 amp hours (at 48 volts) to go 10 miles. However, the batteries you were sold sound like they were damaged (maybe they had been left un-charged, even if they're new). You should have gotten at least 5 miles of range.

Nickel Cadmium batteries might work well for you. They give you almost twice as much range for the same RATED capacity because lead acid batteries are rated for slow (24 hour) use in non e-bike situations. They last a long time when you run 'em down to zero regularly. They're also a lot more expensive. You can buy em at www.ebikes.ca

morph999 

what I really want is a 5303 motor....I need help on finding a cheap way to power them, though

one idea for me was to use 5 12v14ah lead-acid batteries. I found some that are 9lbs and 6x 4x 4 which means I can fit 5 of them in my topeak MTX bag and if that didn't work, I could put 4 of them in there and then try to mount the 5th one somewhere else I suppose. $35 a pieces so it'd be about $170.

How far do you think those would realistically get me with a 5303 motor (phoenix racer)?

morph999 

I've got almost 30 lbs on my bike rack right now so it'd be about 15 lbs more with 5 12v14ah ....and it'd be only 6 lbs more with 4 of them (48v). With 30lbs, I don't even notice that it's there.

I've been to endless sphere and it's a good forum but there is about 1000 different opinions and it's really overwhelming for a new person like myself. That's why I decided to come over here.

There's guys over there claiming that 12v8ah lead acid will get you 10 miles of range and I'm not sure that's true. And nearly every member over there told me not to get a 5303 motor. I have no idea why but they were all telling me to stay away from the phoenix racer which is the one motor that I actually wanted since it was fast. It's funny that all of them told me not to get the phoenix racer but yet I look at their signatures and about half of them are using 53XX motors to run their bikes so I don't really get what their problem is over there.

Optimaman

I've got the phoenix racer and brute and I've ran it with 36 volts, 48 volts, and 72 volts. If I were you, I'd get the Phoenix Brute and run that at 72 volts with 12 ah lead acids. By running higher voltage, "slower" motor, you'll be pulling less amps so the batteries will give you more of their rated capacity. Last summer, I rode my bike for 26 miles AVERAGING over 25 mph and used up quite a bit of the capacity - 72 volts, I ended up using like 8 amp hours. That's with Lithium Polymers which have a very high discharge rate and capacity - it topped out at over 53 mph btw. I gave away my phoenix brute to my father-in-law and when he ran 12 ah 48 volts, he ran out of juice after 15 miles or so going about 20 mph. So, we upped it to 72 volts and as long as he keeps off the max speed, he'll easily do 20 miles.

leamcorp

Funny thing is half the people here are from there

I don't think that problem is 5303 per se, rather it may have to do with not enough torque. Crystalyte 5304 (or higher) might be better in real world, even if you live in relatively flat area. While 5303 might sound faster on paper, once weight is applied (bike, motor, big heavy SLA batteries and the rider) - that fast motor may struggle to push all that weight (as I've learned). You may give up little speed on paper (meaning no load speed) but in reality, it may work better to get slightly more torque so that it has a margin of capability.

In the end, get what you want and if you don't like it, sell it at 10% loss and buy another. Part of the game, unfortunately.

cerewa

I think the crystalyte 5xxx motors are probably what you want, but keep in mind:

the crystalyte 4xxx motors are lighter. They're more efficient than the bigger motors at relatively low power levels, and they can work efficiently up to well over 2 horsepower (1500 watts).

You need a whole lot of batteries to make a bigger-than-2-horsepower motor be worthwhile. If saving money is what you're after, "a whole lot of batteries" starts to sound less appealing.

Basically what I'm saying is, you should only bother with a big motor if you have enough batteries to run it at full power.

crackerdog

Cheap batteries are OK to use to see if it works but you'll soon use those up and need to buy some good batteries. Even lead acid batteries vary quite a bit in quality.

Patriot

You can achieve close to 35mph with a Crystalyte 5303 at 48v. However, that's full throttle.

To reliably run at 35mph, you'de need at least 72v. You can easily do this with a 72v Kelly controller.

I've even seen some guys run up to 126v with a custom controller. 50mph!!!

BroadwayJoe

For that speed you really need a motorcycle. Bicycles in general and all their components were never intended for powered use at 35MPH. 20-25MPH seems to be a reasonable range with quality bicycle components for spirited riding. Most ebikers I know are happy with 15MPH as long as it has great assistance on hills.

What you seek is the ErockIT - look for a thread with youtube video. $44k - start saving...

Kingpin 1

By law, e-bikes are limited to 20 mph in the USA. However, lots of kits will exceed this number but, not by much and not for sustained periods of time. The basic rule of thumb for a properly balanced e-bike/battery combo is 20mph. for 20 miles. I noticed you were using SLA batteries. Were they completely recharged between uses immediately after use? Were they new to begin with? If the answer to either of these questions was no, then you have your answer. SLA's have a VERY short life and MUST be completely recharged immediately after each use or they will lose their capacity. The only good thing about SLA batteries is their initial cost. Otherwise they have a short life and weigh a ton. What you need is a LiFePO4 battery. They have a 1000+recharge life span, no"memory" and can survive in a discharged state.

Check this out at worldwideelectricbikes.com. They have a great 48v. kit and a whole article on batteries.

WvG

FWIW, I'm doing 6.3 miles each way, including a nasty 2 mile long bridge with 3 12v8ah lead acid batteries and an AmpedBikes 500 W hub motor with no noticable fade. Does about 17 MPH with no peddling (but I pretty much peddle all the way). I've done 10 miles once, and sill had plenty of juice left. (I'm 165 lbs).

24X18

One POSTER mentioned the safety of going that speed on Bike Tires..this is very true..
..also..the Law here in CT..as for a Moped design requires you don't go faster than 25-MPH..
..you may need to have your Bike--inspected by the DMV..or add Turn Signals..
===
The electric power is a matter of WEIGHT--to--Power..and then terrain..
I weigh in at about 200-LBS..
My Currie Tech..Schwinn S-750..was delivered w/Panasonic 12-volt 15-ah batteries..
..a 24volt..500-watt system would take me 11-miles round trip..I did that just about every other day..sometimes the Scooter would sit for days..but it must be immeadiately charged..
===
Well...batteries don't last for-ever..I got 2-seasons from mine..I eventually got caught in a rain storm..and the Battery Compartment filled with water..I did my run to the store and when I came out..the Scooter wouldn't move..I opened the BATT-Compartment..andcleaned it out..dried everything..and off I went..
Another day..I needed to get some paperwork done for a Job Application..I ran the Battery completly DEAD..getting that done..and from that point..the Scooter started to die-out..
===
Soon...I was pushing it home for the last mile..on my Round Trip(11-miles)..
===
I went looking for Batteries..and could not get the 15ah design..
So I needed to re-design my Scooter to be able to FIT--more differant SIZE/BATTS..
I stayed w/SLA because..the NUMBERS really CRUNCH--down to all the same(results)..
I found some 12-volt..18ah at Interstate Batteries..
I'm working with them right now..from my experiance..
I would keep my amps at 15ah or above..and adjust my riding habits.