Golectric

They are classified as power assisted bikes by law and I don't flog them, they actually almost sell themselves because the public loves them. I tell everyone I sell them to, to ride them on the bike paths because they have every right to do so. Stokell, please quit spreading misleading and false information that is based on your prejudice towards these new bikes.

Allen

I'm merging this into the "Scooter Style" thread.

dewdad

Common sense dictates that Bicycles, Scooters, Electric Bikes and Scooter Style E-Bikes are to some degree all dangerous. Having reflectors and lighting on your bike especially for night time opertation, would make a rider more visible. The scooter style have more reflectors, turn signals and headlights so I think Golectric is right in his claim that they would be the "safer" of the two just on that claim alone, because of their visibility. Bicycles can turn on a "dime" which makes them unpredictable to other motorists, the scooters are much more predictable. Who cares which one is safer and which one is better. They are for two different type of people. Why fight over silly things.
I have bicycled my whole life, and I enjoy my scooter style e-bike...It is like comparing Chinese Food and Steak...I like them both.
At least overseas, they fight for power, money and land. Here we argue about who's bicycle is better. Lets just get along...Opinions are fine, but at the end of the day we should accept each others differences. Whether you pedal, throttle or walk, the goal is "one less car on the road".

JinbaIttai

I don't really know anything about scooter style ebikes.

Anyone care to educate me, how much can pedaling contribute to propulsion? Is it like 50/50 or maybe more like 80/20 motor/pedaling?
Are you able to pedal at all without the motor? I'd imagine that would be for an out of battery situation, but just want to know.

Greywolf67

I can not speak for other Scooter style rides, but I can tell you from my own personal use.....I ride 95/5 battery. For 2 reasons
1) I have bad knees, and the last time I rode MTB style, my left knee gave out on me. That left me stuck on the side of the road unable to peddle or walk my bike to where I was going. Thank goodness I had a cell phone and a friend with a pick up.

2) I have a short ride to work and the scooter zips me there nice and quick, no gas used and I don't have to stand and wait for a city bus.

Now of the times I have used the peddles it was because I gave the bike hard rides and had to assist the motor climb hills ( low battery charge from long rides ).

You can peddle most of the scooter style, provided they have a firm fit peddle. Most attach to drive like a socket wrench. As i test drove a few models before I bought mine I noticed some have far to much wobblw in the peddle. Mine has a slight wobble when you turn the peddles with your feet, but it's more a strain on your groin because your feet are in a wide stance.

I know I could peddle my scooter from home to work, however I fear a knee giving away on me thus costing me time off so I don't. Now granted the speed loss is also something to think about......you will not set any land speed record doing so.

kbdog

I can't imagine anyone pedalling a scooter style ebike. it must look a bit strange.

If you take it a bit further, I have a picture of a Harley Davidson with pedals and a burly biker pedalling away frantically.

Greywolf67

If you have ever seen a real young kid on his first bike and how madly they peddle to get not alot of speed.........
Same with a scooter LOL

dewdad

I took my bike to the limit once... and had to pedal about a km home. I wouldn't want to do it again.
Similar law dictates you must have oars on a motor boat, when really a cell phone would be better. LOL
I hope everyone enjoyed their Easter, whether you be a cyclist, an e-biker or pedestrian.

kbdog

Ontario is about to give third (and final) reading of new legislation to legalize certain ebikes - this coming after a three-year trial period. Details in the official act here: https://www.ontla.on.ca/bills/bills-f...sion1/b126.pdf

Also mandated when on the highway:
Helmet
Appropriate front and rear lights switched on (after dark)
Separate braking systems for each wheel
Rider must be 16 + years old

So at least we now know that the trial period must have been a success and that Ontario is serious about supporting ebikes.

SeizeTech

that is good news, sometimes all that it takes is the first province to pass laws and the others will follow in support.

Allen

I don't have time to go through it.
If someone has the time what's the bottom line?
Weight limit?
Power limit?
Speed limit?
Scooters allowed?

Thanks,

--A

SeizeTech

wow. most of the $100-$200 fines (ie seat belts, reckless driving, etc) are being increased to $1000-$2000 fines.

This is good in the sense that the fines will serve as a deterant to those people that used to laugh at the smaller fines. But, personally, I can't afford to pay fines that are that high.

dewdad

So far nothing has changed to affect the status of "power assisted bicycles". The bikes with cosmetic coverings, while resembling a scooter, are not scooters. If we dressed up a tricyle with similar coverings and made it look like a rocket ship, it would still be a tricycle that looks like a rocket ship. As long as they do not exceed 32km per hour, as long as the motor is 500 watt or less, as long as it is "capable" of being propelled by muscular power and a few other details, it is okay. As it sould be. A 6 year safe track record in BC must be worth something. One less car on the road even for a few months a year is giant leap for mankind.

dewdad

To all those who oppose, remember that to each their own and it does give a great alternative to driving.
They are not meant to replace cycling, they are meant to replace driving and that is in my findings who
is purchasing the "scooter style".

Greywolf67

LMAO !!!!!

Have you been in the middle of the lake as well and the darn motor would just not catch?........after maybe 50 pulls, and the cable breaking....almost putting me over the side......I've had to row to shore.

It can be done but omg my arms were killing me for days after......now I would never leave shore without a back up......battery power Trolling motor!!!!!!!!!!!!!

dewdad

All these people that go on an on about not being able to pedal the scooter style, obviously never had a moped growing up that also had pedals. We didn't pedal those either, and they went a heck of a lot faster. 32 km per hour is 32 km per hour whether you are zig zaging on a bicycle or throttling in a straight line down the side of the road. One less car on the road is a good thing. Alternatives is what is needed, and the more the better. If cyclists think it should be bicycle or car, then a lot of people will choose car. The idea is to have alternatives to encourage more people. The pedals are functional and help on steep hills. Takes the stress off the battery.
80% of the people who oppose, one day will have bad knees or something, and will see the value. Until then let them keep their blinders on and cycle.

Allen

They are scooters, not bicycles with fairings. It's a question of commonality.


^^^
A scooter that is allowed on some MUPs
The platform pedals are the only component they have in common to a bicycle.


The Optibike, not legal on most roads without being tagged as a moped because of their power output. But every component on it can be interchanged with my Voodoo mountain bike. That's a bicycle.


A 1902 Duesenberg motorcycle. Most of its components are bicycle components.


The Go-One velomobile--That's a faired bicycle.
Radically different from a diamond frame but its components are all standard bicycle components and the electric assist version uses a standard hub motor kit.

All of these vehicles can be pedaled, but one can't be pedaled more than a km or so, the rest can be solely human powered for considerably longer distances.

The Gossamer Albatross and the Wright A have more components in common to bicycles than the low speed electric scooters.

I'm not throwing the scooters off of the forum, but an apple will never be an orange no mater what you call it.

Greywolf67

It's a tired old fight.......not worth the energy anymore, as it looks like the laws will not change and the scooters for better or worse are going to stay as is, grouped in with MTB and Race style provided they stay at the 32 km limit.

The Bill has now passed 3rd reading.

It would be a fair warning to all E-Bike riders that if the Ontario Government adopts the law as is, the Police will be out to catch any rider of any style who goes faster then the 32 kph limit.

So no matter what side you have now, if your in Ontario keep your eyes open and your "Power Assisted Speed" at or below 32 km

Allen

I'm not saying the intent of the vehicle is not the same as a commuting bicycle's.
Just that they are scooters and not bicycles.

SeizeTech

i care care less. i happen to like ebikes, gas guzzling pickup trucks and everything else in between.

Allen

Fair enough.

Greywolf67

Allen.....

It is only your opinion that you are "saying"

The fact is until the Government changes the law to agree with that statement, they are lumped in with bicycles.

However the issue is old and tired.

It's also just stunning people get hung up on such things as Name Tag, Class of Something.

All over the Internet this goes on.....

Owners of fast Honda Civics can't post in speed/mussle car forums, even tho the civic turns faster 1/4 miles then most Mussle.

PDA owners are kicked from message boards because their PDA has an oddball shell, even tho it has Windows CE running it like the ones doing the kicking.

E-bike owners rather then work toward a comman goal or friendship do battle and waist endless board space to argue it's a bike/ it's not a bike yadda yadda yadda!!!

One thing that seems to be over looked in all this by the Kit/Convert Bikes , lets say for argument sake the Government changes the law and force Scooter style e-bikes to insure/plate/lic. What is going to happen**********?

The people who opened shops, will close their doors shortly after. As bikes on their shop floor sit unsold. Many of the same shops also sell Kit Parts, however Kits alone will not keep them open. As people will turn back to cars or get full blown gas scooters.....why ride a limited speed bike and pay like a gas scooter ?

Now after that who will the Government turn on next???? To make up the shortfall in projected money that would come from such a move? Who is the next 2 wheel battery powered on the road mode of transport**********?

Allen

Graywolf,

Scooters are not universally classified as bicycles.
Europe, Japan, parts of Canada and the US they are not allowed on bike paths.
But I'll leave it alone.

dewdad

I know! I wished I didn't have to keep that silly sticker on my bike that "classifies" it as a power assisted bicycle, as per the Department of Transportations requirements. To call it a scooter is innacurate because of its limited speed and to call it a bicycle is innacurate. I find the term "scooter style e-bike" to be more fitting.

cerewa

"what does it look like" and "what kind of vehicle does it share parts with" seem to be what you're focusing on. That's certainly not the only "correct" way to decide what will be called a scooter or a bicycle.

Some people focus on the legal definition in their own area to decide what's a "bicycle" or "scooter". A person could focus on what's safe to operate with very few rules (like a bicycle) and what's somewhat more dangerous to people and property (like a motorcycle) - then we might define bicycles vs motorcycles by their weight and maximum speed.

None is the perfect definition.