I have a love/hate relationship with my electric bike.

I love it because it got me commuting to work again after a 10 year absence from the bike.

I hate it because it weighs a lot and it adversely affects the handling of the bike and I'm a bit disappointed by the performance of the system.

It's been 14 months since I bought my bike (Haro Roscoe) that I purchased with a Bionx system. I bought it because I have a 18 km commute each way and after not exercising for several years due to the arrival of a couple of children I didn't think I could make the commute in a reasonable time. Six weeks after I bought the bike my fitness improved greatly and today my times on my cyclocross (yes I bought 2 bikes in one year) are virtually identical to those on the electric bike.

I appreciate what the electric bike did for me and I'm now able to ride Fondos and centuries completely unassisted. But I still think my future holds an electric bike, just one better than I have.

My biggest beef is the weight. Are there any systems out on the market that put the motor into the bottom bracket instead of the hub? Are there any systems that weigh 10 lbs or less (motor and battery). I think I could live with less power assist, if the system were lighter.

It's odd but on the specific hill I have on my commute the electric bike isn't that big an advantage up the hill because the system weighs so much. Maybe if I had a 500 watt system it would be a different story but I really dislike the weight of the system.

Yes. There are a few makers who are using Panasonic inline drive systems. Since the motor is inline to the chain you get to take advantage of the bike's gearing. When you come to a big hill, downshift and you get less speed but much more torque from the motor so they'll go up steeper hills and pull larger loads with less power.

The brands that use the Panasonic motors are more expensive than others ($2000-$3000) but Panasonic will only license to companies that use very high quality parts and frames. Kalkhoff is one that is imported to North America and they weight around 45 pounds with racks and fenders.

Wow, hopefully the cost will come down.

I'd like to get another electric bike in the future. I just want to see significant improvements before I spend a significant amount of money on one again. The Bionx system isn't cheap, but it was less than the Panasonic system you describe.

Not sure where Burnaby is, but here in the states, ebikes come around craigslist quite often. If you're pretty handy you can pick one up for a song because a wire has come loose or some other minor thing and the owners want to get rid of them thinking they don't work anymore. There are some deals to be had if you are patient.

Ecospeed in Portland also has a nice system but you get what you pay for, it's also expensive.

Burnaby is beside Vancouver, which if you don't know where it is then about 120 miles North of Seattle.

The Ecospeed looks interesting, as it locates the weight for the motor in a good spot, down low and in the middle. However 26 lbs for the battery and motor combined is pretty heavy. Granted it's 1000 watts, which is a ton of power, but I'd prefer something that had less power and weighed less. If it were possible to have something like the Ecospeed that were 500 watts and half the weight then it would be a lot more enticing.

I have electrified a number of Bike E recumbents with a 500 watt motor and they work great because it is inline with the gears. The motor only weighs a couple of pounds less than the Ecospeed motor on another recumbent. Ask Ecospeed how much the motor itself weighs, it is probably about 11 pounds. The 500 watt motor weighs 9 pounds so not much savings in weight.

I was afraid someone was going to point that out. Oh well, perhaps over time technology will improve and I can get a better ebike down the road. In the meantime the ebike got me commuting enough and in good enough shape that now I can ride to and from work in significantly less time now on my cross bike compared to a year ago on the ebike.

Looking forward to the day I get another ebike, but it appears I will be waiting a while.

unfortunately, electric bikes don't really work this way. you can find a motor that is less than 10 pounds but it's tough to find a battery system with any type of meaningful range for low weight. you also mentioned that you're unhappy with the weight and performance. i would probably do something like:

urban bike + small hub motor + lipo (12s1p). This would be light but would only give you 44v 5ah of range so you will need to pedal. you can also adjust your controller so that it's set really low so the bike would only use a little bit of battery will helping you pedal.

however, i know that for me personally i would be very disappointed with this setup.

i ride a road bike on weekend rides and ride my electric bike during the week to commute. the 2 don't really mix very well.

what good are fenders for?

How about if you had an electric powered pusher trailer that you could add to your cyclocross bike when you want assist and take it off in under a minute when you don't. The cost of the motor/battery will be the same as for a bike but without the expense of another bike? I put this one together for under a grand and it is 1000w/48v/12ah which is the legal limit here in OR. Works for me anyway.

That trailer is a neat idea and I'll keep it in mind. At the current time I actually don't have a use for an electric bike and I just sold mine this past week.

Regarding the trailer, does it ever get sideways on you and are turns a problem?

One day I'll get another electric bike. I'm just going to wait for technology to advance.

I think some form of electric cargo bike is the way to go for electric. An Xtracycle for example has lots of room for batteries and can carry lots of extra weight with no noticeable decrease in ride ability. A dutch style cargo bike would also fit the bill. Cargo bikes already weigh more than smaller bikes but if you have the extra electric power you might as well have the room to carry something at the same time.

Never had the trailer get sideways on me or even close. There is an issue if you are turning a sharp corner and hit the throttle it can be a little weird but the whole system is very manageable.

I agree that a e cargo bike is a good thing. Better yet with a mid drive motor to be able to utilize the bikes gearing while carrying loads. Check out here for a really good example: https://www.urbancommuterstore.com/

However it means a whole new bike the associated costs and while that may work out for some, others already have a perfectly good bike and not room to store any more whereas the trailer is smaller and easier to stash. Plus it can be used on any bike in the household. Not the end all be all by any means but it will work for some and that is all you can ask. I know it works for me anyway and it works way better than the Bion X equipped Ohm that I have.

An internally geared hub motor kit would lighten the load a bit, if your BionX was a NIMH battery you could shave a few more lbs by going lithium ( lipo being the lightest but requries you be willing to learn how to care for it safely ) ..

A friction drive is also another way to keep it light, there are some setups that clamp to the seat tube and engage with a roller onto the rear tire, needs the right tire ( not knobies ), and is not good for wet weather ( slips ) but otherwise works good because of the reduction ratio between the motor rpm and wheel rpm. google " Kepler Drive " ..

Another more complex ( expensive ) option is something like the stokemonkey or cyclone, but i personally dont like the cyclone because of the noise factor and finicky mounting hardware..

Watchdog, there are number of electric bike suppliers in the Vancouver area. Go to the website of Grin Cyclery which is a supplier of components for electric bike conversions. Their web site lists all the electric bike retailers in Metro Vancouver area. Grin has fellow by the name of Justin who is very good at answering questions about conversions
My friend who rides a trike has his electric bike assist on his BOB trailer. It's fantastic for use on the hills of Vancouver.

I bought two new BionX PL-350 systems at a 50% discount on Craigslist (keep your eyes open, it happens). They have been performing great for me. I live in a somewhat hilly area, and have tested the system quite a bit. First abuse - on a relatively new setup, I rode my BionX equipped Xtracycle on a century, and it made it 99.6 miles before the battery finally died (I did this by using regen, and pedaling on the downhills) - https://web.mac.com/zorbathegeek/Cadillac/2009.html#22

The second test was winter/all-weather resistance. This test it did okay in (i.e. riding t work regardless of weather, in a town that salts the roads till they're white). For the first couple of months the system did fine, but after a while the computer started locking up, and then it was more or less useless until spring. I later found out that if the hook-up for the battery is wet, it reproduces these same symptoms, so I'm trying again this winter and will be covering the bike when it get's wet out.

The third test is my current mode of commuting, which is with my wife riding on the back of the bicycle, and climbing two hills with a 8-10% grade. Without the assist, I could ride up on road tires at around 7 MPH, but it was very hard. Now I put the snow tires on with the motor, and I can ride up the hills at 13 MPH with moderate exertion - that is a huge improvement.

So, I would say that while the PL-350 has its limitations, if you treat it right it is a down-right resilient beast.

Not sure if you're still looking for an ebike motor but this is very light and discrete system:
https://www.vivax-assist.com/en/unternehmen/index.php

As for the Bionx I can tell from experience that the PL250 is very underpowered compared to the weight of the system which makes it that in practical conditions of a long + hilly commute it may rather worth getting a very light bike with no assist.

I ride a Bionx 500 and it's great on flats and light hills as it gets you over 45 km/h on flat - basically all you can pump kind of thing.
The Bionx 350 makes the heaviest hills a breeze but doesn't get you any real speed on flats beyond what you can throw at it yourself beyond 32 km/h.

A crank drive is one way to approach it, but the good drives are expensive, where as hub motors are cheap and simple. Build your own with a ~500 watt geared rear drive and put the battery in triangle pack in the frame:

https://em3ev.com/store/index.php?rou...product_id=123

https://www.forsenusa.com/batteries.html

I have the Bionx SL350 (48v) in my HP Velotechnik Scopion FS, yes my top speed on flat road may be limited to 32 km/h but cruising at that speed I can go almost 100 kilometer before require to recharge. If I take it easy and limit my power assist to level 1 the range can be extended to almost 150 kilometer. For long tour, I am no longer care about top speed because the faster I go the sooner I have to look for power outlet.

As far as weight is concerned, it is not a big issue any more because I can now blast up 4% grade at speed up to 30 kph which is an impossibility on any regular bike.

Wow, that Vivax system looks great. It's really what I've been looking for i.e. a nice light system. I think 200 watts is about the boost I was looking for. At around 3 lbs, this system hardly adds any weight to the bike. I notice there aren't any North American distributors, but hopefully the system is successful and catches on and we get some North American distributors. It's definitely a system I'd love to have.

I got excited too, seeing the Vivax system which seems about ideal; though then also saw the price of one, not to mention the problem of no one doing installations other than in Europe.

After some thought however, I'm wondering how truly difficult installing one myself and/or seeking local expertise could really be? Thinking of over a decade, living with a 1966 VW "square-back" sedan whose motor I overhauled, and also did a trans-axle swap with; though the Haynes manual I often relied upon at times ridiculed anyone for attempting some procedures they'd deemed too difficult, I'd hardly been phased by.

Despite the temptation to think of a manufacturer/supplier wanting to exploit their situation, by a total control of the processes where a person might save money by cutting out a middleman if capable of doing some of the installation or fabrication; I do feel they are justified in protection of their integrity, if they feel too many people could screw up something by lack of skill or other factors a factory job would circumvent.

That said, were I able to get significantly around the expense; being able to do so, could be quite attractive-as with any situation, where a person's time amounts to a capital gain-saving what would easily prevent ever being able to use and/or employ something quite desirable otherwise.

How then, to reasonably obtain either the necessary device or devices and as well also the requisite talent or talents incidental to success; seems to hinge upon getting integral producer or producers, to yield the necessary? Or, perhaps finding other alternatives; is feasible?

Wow, I sure got hooked on the Vivax; until reading that adding one would run close to three thousand dollars. With locally, theft being one large phenomena a person has to constantly be wary enough of, to defeat that; you'd better believe getting took by a criminal who likely might never notice there there was an assist motor,* would really hurt...no?

*Particularly, since costing ten times or more the total cash investment of the bike itself. BTW; my list of bicycles here, are all those I've owned since my first "speed" though prior to that, the Schwinn Racer I've forgotten what I used to ride-except I never did get a Stingray, when those were first out and the rage almost everyone at least wanted to have.

My current and only bicycle is the Windsor; from an unrideable wreck found at the waterfront Eureka, CA flea market during 1997 for $20; my second of those I feel lucky I recognized, since now nicely fixed up with plenty of mods making that well dialed in for my needs as an elder, with a paunch and not too much punch either.

I do disagree with some who've commented, that an electric assist would "over power" a rider used to only modest at best empowerment under their own steam; since I think a person if once used to being at the head of significant propulsion, still retains the skills for control of that-even if no longer capable of generation of same.

Not to mention, any system when approached intelligently; will ultimately engender intelligence equal to whatever demands are inherent. Otherwise, no one would ever become adept at anything; in effect.

Seems here with Vivax, and probably quite a few other similar, or related devices; is unlike a Volkswagen, or anything else achieving incredible popularity as well as long production runs, these are going to remain unusual to the point of being often nearly unique...or at best, a sort of fitful smattering of diverse creations-rare enough, to qualify for endangered species protection.

Thus, none of the great after-market interest; capable of creation of any host of applications, accessories or alternatives their original manufacturers could've likely never dreamt of: Which significant volume of production and wide spread distribution and interest would profoundly enhance, as well as often greatly reduce the expenses of for many, many users.

Though as universal as bicycles are, a person has to imagine some future scenario; within which a Vivax type device, could ultimately catch on, greatly. By aptly fulfilling so many specific functions, as if nearly integral to a bicycle's design from their beginnings; of which lowest initial expense, would have to at some point be one of the most integral of those functions.

I'd have to think, that a long experience of other styles of add-on power assists would precede any Vivax type device becoming wildly adopted by the masses; before production of the Vivax style incorporating so many relatively sophisticated aspects, would ever become defined by considerable duplication in widespread fashion.

Thus, even any electric alternative of any sort; seems likely to be predated by more simple gasoline power assist packages-my favorite seeing them advertised, one of the front wheel assists which operates via a friction wheel against the front tire. That looked to've been product of good design; and as such, the factor most creating the specific unit's appeal.

Based on observation of my fellow man piloting automobiles, I disagree with your theory...