Gypsy1

I'm asking for a liitli insight on hub electricity. I'm am going to purchase the Son Hub, Model 28 ISO Disc, not changing the deciding. I want to charge my front and rear lights, day time running while charging a battery pack. Purpose of the battery pack is to be fully charged so I can charge only a few items:
1. Rechargable headlamp
2. Nexus Tablet

That's about it, I don't have much. I am looking for a setup that doesn't cost much. Can you help?

gracehowler

We used "the plug", I sometimes turn the headlight off to get a bit more current to the usb. This has been satisfactory for us several years.
Check out https://www.peterwhitecycles.com
R

Tourist in MSN

You said you "charge my front and rear lights, day time running while charging a battery pack". In general terms, running bike lights and also trying to charge up batteries are mutually exclusive. There is not enough power to do it all at the same time. I use a dynohub for bike touring but my headlamp is almost always turned off.

A few bits of trivia, in the event you were unaware. Almost all dyno powered taillights are wired to the headlamp, when the headlamp is off, so is the taillight. And dyno powered taillights do not flash.

When I am charging up devices, I have my dyno powered lights off. Bike touring, I have always used battery powered taillights for two reasons, (1) I want to be able to use flashing taillights during the daytime, and (2) by using battery powered taillights, I can charge up batteries from the hub while using taillights at the same time.

I have recently bought some dyno powered taillights, but I do not consider them a primary light, I consider them to be a supplement to my battery powered taillights.

You are getting the most expensive dynohub, so I am not sure what your budget constraints really are like. I assume you are looking for a USB charger. They come in a wide of prices. And there are a few different headlights that include a USB charger. I think most people that use a USB charger for touring have one that is separate from the headlamp.

I have used the Sinewave Revolution USB charger, it is one of the more expensive ones but I wanted one that had really good waterproofing.

Some devices are picky about the USB power source. My Garmin 64 will not charge batteries from my Sinewave charger directly without a pass through cache battery. Many people that have devices that do not charge well from a dynohub buy a big power bank, charge that up during the day and use that to top up their other devices later.

This link describes a pass through cache battery better than I can, so I won't try.
https://www.cyclingabout.com/best-dy...fer-batteries/

Peter Whites website has very good discussion on dyno powered lighting, he is the distributor for B&M, you can learn a lot from his website.
https://www.peterwhitecycles.com/

A couple years ago I did a two week bike tour, I was fully self supporting for power, did not plug into an outlet for the whole time. My GPS is always on when I am rolling, I had a tablet that I used for e-mail and weather forecasts but my tablet was only used where i had wifi, so it was usually turned off. I took lots of photos with a waterproof point and shoot camera, had to charge those batteries up frequently. Most of the time while rolling I had one or two taillights on in flash mode. That trip was in February when the sun set early, so I used my headlamp (on my head) in the campsite a lot. I had a phone (flip phone, it only was used to make phone calls) but it was almost always off.

I think if you have specific questions, we can provide more help.

Gypsy1

Rod,
Thank you for the reference to Peter White Cycles, they're a great site. I'll review it again!

MSN,
Thanks for the insight, I'll review cyclingabout.com! Really appreciate the front and rear light clarification, I'll research on battery lights.

I'll come back to this with more questions. Reading time!

fietsbob

It will be very slow as the USB power output standard is not large.. and you have to be moving . (Bring your Mains Chargers too)
Tablet battery may take days of riding..& may never catch up .. so ask to plug in while having a nice luncheon ..

The Plug III and The https://www.sinewavecycles.com/produ...cycles-reactor are competing products offering the same idea.


Last year a touring cyclist, as many do, left their bike for boxing and shipping back @ the LBS..
She had a German Made wired head & Tail light which does not blink,

and a USB internal battery one that did blink, and a power cord running up to it..




....

Gypsy1

After doing my homework for many hours, here what I got. Keep in mind, I'm doing a build, "vintage" style, new school tech...

Hub Generator: SON 28 ISO Disc $315 - my reason for this hub is the reliability, dependability, and engineering vs the other companies (peace of mind, but I agree, higher cost) - Phil Wood Rear Hub.

I looked at the Sinewave Cycles Revolution, USB Charger $120 - It's a 5V up to 1 Amp. The FAQ's on the website addresses the usage of headlights and USB Charger at the same time. Pasted the details:

Q. Can I use the revolution and my lights at the same time?
A. Yes Simply connect the wires to the dynamo along with the headlight cable (in parallel). The dynamo power will be shared by the Revolution and the headlight, so we advise unplugging your phone/gps/device being charged to ensure that your headlights are at full brightness. You do not need to disconnect the Revolution - it draws practically zero power when not charging a device

So it seems, as I understood, that the Dynamo Lights will still work but at lower levels. This could remove the battery secondary lighting system, right?

To keep things clean and simple, I'm wanting to charge only a battery pack, HyperJuice AC (100wh / 26000mAh) $159, then charge any gadgets that may need charging at the end of the day.

Simple gadgets include: (not using Cell Phone, Garmin, GPS, etc.)
SanDisk Clip Sport MP3 Player
Point and click camera, rechargable in the camera
UCO Vaper+Rechargable Headlamp
Google Nexus 9 Tablet (reading, writing)

Dynamo Light set-up will be from Busch & Muller:
Rear, Line Brake Plus to fit with the Tubus Cosmo Rear Rack.
Front, IQ-XS (looks classy) it fits the space.

Keeping MSN battery options as a consideration, here are my options:
Spanning Pixeo Xb Chrome with Cage $25 - 2x AAA batteries (Rear Light) *120 hours
Soma Torpedo MK2 Steel Chrome $60 - 4x AAA batteries (Front Light) *6 hours steady, 12 hrs Flash Flashing
I'm not sold on the Soma light but only one with aesthetics - know of something else?
Note: The reason i didn't want batteries, is because I'll be broke on my trip, and didn't want to purchase batteries. So if I purchase rechargable AAA batteries, how am I charging? What system is recommended?

Again, if there is anything I'm not understanding or missing, please let me know.

Tourist in MSN

I am assuming this is for an extended (several weeks) bike tour where you expect to rarely have an opportunity to plug things into an outlet.

I have found that when I have both my Sinewave being used to charge something and a light on, the Sinewave is putting out so little power that it is not worth doing it. You wire both the charger and light in a parallel circuit. When nothing is plugged into the SInewave, it draws almost no power. And when the light is turned off, it draws no power. So it is quite simple, you want to charge something, turn the light off. When you are not charging anything you can have the light on or off. In other words, I am disagreeing with the manufacturer.

That powerbank is rated at 100 watt hours. Most of the time the Sinewave would be putting out about 2.5 watts, 3 if you have a tailwind. Yes it can put out 5 watts, but that is down hills. So, to charge up that powerbank from being empty to full you are looking at around 40 hours.

The Nexus 9 tablet, I have no idea what the power draw on that is, my small (7 inch) Android tablet usually draws about 4 watts, thus if I took it on a trip I would probably need an hour and a half rolling time for every hour the tablet is on. In the past I only had it on when I had wifi since I only used it for weather forecasts and e-mail, so usually less than a half hour a day. If you use your tablet a lot of hours each day, you are going to run out of power.

A friend of mine has that taillight. He likes it. But if you are riding in front of someone and ask them to tell you if it works, warn them before you suddenly slam on the brakes.

IQ-XS does look like a nice light, I bought one for my rando bike, but waiting for spring before I can try it. Have not tried it yet.

A headlight that burns through 4 AAA batteries in 6 to 12 hours is using a lot of power. I bring battery powered taillights (two) on bike tours but I have not used a headlamp during the daytime while touring.

I have tried several different USB powered AA/AAA chargers, some are good and some are not, and several of the ones I have bought are no longer sold so those I am not going to suggest because they are hard to find.

This one works well when powered by using a charger plugged into the wall or from a power bank. But it works poorly when powered from a SInewave unless you are using a pass through cache battery. Since you are only charging from a powerbank, it should work well for you. It is a smart charger, meaning that it charges a battery faster than a dumb charger and will shut off when charged. And it has a separate charging circuit for each battery which is good. Also quite small and light weight.
https://www.amazon.com/Powertravelle.../dp/B00DQQLMCK

There are cheaper AA/AAA dumb chargers out there that are not very good, they charge very slow and keep charging forever.

AA and AAA batteries, I like the white Ikea Ladda best. (Ikea makes a cheaper brown one, avoid that.) A close second place is Eneloops. I have only used the white Eneloops, never tried the others.
https://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/90303880/
Amazon also sells them at a much higher price.

On your tour, bring a charger that you can plug into a wall too, there might be times when you have the opportunity.

Tourist in MSN

One more thing, I assume you are ordering stuff from Peter White. He also sells lots of different wire connectors. I have no clue if you are wiring this all together or having a bike shop do it. But if you are ordering all this stuff from them, ask them details about the best way to wire it, what connectors to use, etc., and take good notes. And tell them that you are also wiring in a Sinewave, you might need connectors for it too.

And depending on how you mount your IQ-XS, you might want one of his optional light brackets that differs from the one that comes with it.

fietsbob

My Local Bike Shop has a dealer account With Peter's company... ask your LBS to apply for one.. that's what I did ..

Also people order direct from German & other EU Sellers ....


Out put wont double as you double the load on it.....







....

Rick

I have the Son 28 SL ,The edelux headlight and the B&M Toplight Line Brake Plus for night. I have a Denotte Daytime RED Taillight set on pulse for cellphoneitas/texting morons. I have the Sinewave Reactor and a Volactic battery for charging my phone.

Tourist in MSN

One thing you did without saying it is that you use a constant on tail light at night with a flasher during daytime. That is what I do too.

Constant on types of lights at night allow someone to get a better depth perception for distance estimating. And when there is a car coming towards me from behind, I want the driver to not just see the direction I am in, but also be able to get a guess on how far away I am.

And the blinker in daytime is obvious, get their attention and since it is daytime they likely can see well enough for depth perception.

Gypsy1

I too wish the would catch up to the new world!

Gypsy1

I am leaving from South Dakota through the Eastern gulf of Mexico, Belize, remote areas of South America (Ruins, Mountains, less than populated beaches, Eastern South America. I wanted lights while riding to be seen (don't really plan on night riding) so that why I thought a generator hub would be excellent option (cheaper than buying batteries). I don't want to treasure hunt for consumable items. Just keep it simple as possible.

You made a good point, I will not do a front headlight (battery powered) while on the tour.
At this point, I may sell the tablet and only document my travels in notebooks. I've reduced my tech usage over the past 7 years am may wait to upload everything upon my return, if I decide. I really only need the items that I'll be able to survive with. If the technology advances for better efficiency in the future I will look back at a complete system.

Unfortunately, here in Rapid City, none of the bike shops are educated on generator hubs, I was going to do the wiring but honestly, I'm not that educated with electrical. I can build bikes from the frame up and reverse.

I will still go with the hub Generator and do the build but might not set-up the lights until I get to Denver or Fort Collins. I'm sure there's a shop more dedicated to road and touring than just mountain bikes. Thank you all for your help!!!

fietsbob

Yea, schools stopped teaching mechanical skills , hard to fill in a multiple choice bubble test to grade those things..

Tourist in MSN

I think you have to find a bike shop in a community with a lot of bicycle commuters to find a bike shop that knows dynohub lighting. There are a lot of bike commuters in my community, but I can only think of one shop that will sell you a dynohub powered taillight.

The wiring is REALLY simple on a dynohub setup with headlight, taillight and Sinewave USB charger. I use the Sinewave Revolution, not the Reactor so I am not familiar with installation, but I am sure it is the same two wire sort of wiring system that the other Sinewave uses. The Revolution just zip ties on the frame somewhere.

You might consider looking at the instructions for the Sinewave now. If it looks simple (I suspect it is running two wires to the hub), then you could certainly wire that before you leave SD. And with that you can charge AA or AAA batteries if you get the USB powered AA/AAA charger. That way you could at least keep your AAA powered taillight charged, along with your power bank on your ride to CO. Once there, decide later exactly what kind of lighting you think you need.

I have not used a headlight on a bike tour except for tunnels since I do not travel at night. My next tour, I am considering only bringing a headlight that runs off of a USB cord with no internal battery for those rare times I might need a headlamp. And with it likely never in use, it would be sitting in a zip lock in the bottom of my handlebar bag. If I ever need it, I would just power it off of the powerbank. With no dyno powered headlamp, I would not have a dyno powered taillight either. Thus, my Sinewave would be the only thing wired to my hub.

Touring I always bring two AAA powered taillights. My Iceland trip, one taillight died from corrosion in the rain. I was glad I had two.

Off topic - before you leave the country, you might consider signing up for a voice over internet protocol (VOIP) way to use the internet for making phone calls when you have wifi using an android smartphone or android tablet. I have called to USA from Iceland and to USA from Hungary using Google Voice. From Hungary, I used a netbook (small laptop) and from Iceland I used a smartphone that did not have a sim card in it. No sim card meant I had no phone plan or data plan, I was using the wifi at the hostel I was staying at. But with Google Voice I have a phone number and can call from locations where I have wifi. When I do not have wifi, they can't call me, so it is not as good as a real phone, but they can leave voicemail for me to listen to later when I have wifi. Google Voice does not work from a short list of foreign countries, not sure where the list is, but has not been a problem for me. To sign up for it you have to be in USA and have a phone here in USA at the time you sign up. Calls to foreign countries outside USA have a small charge, you keep an account with Google for payment for that. It came in handy when I had to call my credit card companies from Europe to try to get things straightened out. I signed up for Google Voice over 7 years ago, I can't remember how you sign up, so on that I can't provide any advice. On my Android smartphone I use an app called Hangouts Dialer to dial out.

Tourist in MSN

One more quick comment, when touring I use bolt on skewers, not quick release. I have no clue if it has saved me from having a wheel theft, probably not, but I need a 5mm allen wrench to remove a wheel. My assumption is that a thief is unlikely to have a 5mm allen wrench in their pocket. I have a small multi-tool stored with my spare tubes, the big multi-tool elsewhere, so if I loose a wrench, I still have one. I do not use something like the pitlock ones that require a special tool that I might lose. Just a thought on anti-theft measures.

And one more thought, do not ford streams with a dynohub. A friend of mine was complaining that his SP hub quit working. Then I saw a photo of him fording a stream with his bike, the hubs and bottom bracket were under water. I told him that was probably why his SP stopped working. He said - but it is waterproof, I should be able to do that. Dynohubs are not THAT waterproof.

Have a GREAT trip. Sounds wonderful.

Gypsy1

On board with a full Google Account, but I'm glad you mentioned that valuable information!!! Been on that system since the email beta. For those that want to sign up here's the link: https://accounts.google.com/signup/v2/webcreateaccount?hl=en-GB&flowName=GlifWebSignIn&flowEntry=SignUp

MSN, I'm down with your suggestion, illI do just that. Get the foundational system phase and research, CO bike shops. If someone truthfully has a shop that is fully legit with bike touring please shoot my way. As I respect, all riding styles and cyclist, I'm not interested in other shops. My time is getting limited before this launch... Also, will be headed out to Twin Cities, to get in dope rides there once more. As I've mentioned, happy to be on this board! Can wait to load some pictures soon... Gypsy

noglider 

Don't let the wiring be an obstacle. As @Tourist in MSN says, it is very simple.

And @fietsbob, have you ever gotten anyone to wise up with your condescension? I doubt it. That's just mean spirited. I often enjoy your contributions, but this dismays me.

Tourist in MSN

Cyccommute on this board is from CO, he might have suggestions for a bike shop that knows dynohub wiring and lighting. Send him a private message.

fietsbob

I'm dismayed by the output of public schools too .. When I was in High-school they should have taught the boys about the History of Vietnam..

Rick

The wiring of the lights and the usb charger may be considered a simple operation unless you have never done it. The wiring of the usb charger has no polarity priority. It matters not as long as one wire goes to the hot and one to the ground. You can wire it in to the cables or cable coming from the alternator/dyno hub using piggy back connectors. twist an sadder. There is even a new part from Schmidt to make it pretty. Peter White Cycles has some tutorials on connectors and wiring your lights.

Gypsy1

Thanks for bringing up the skewers topic. I had that question in back of my mind. Want security but not wasted time with losing a "special" key. I could manage a bolt skewer... I really hub the $315 Son Hub is waterproof enough not to break during heavy rains.

Gypsy1

Thanks

Rick

The Son hub has a pressure equitation system /tube in it that allows for condensation ie water to escape out of it. It drains in the skewer hole. It can be clogged by putting to much grease on the skewer threads. This may also be a problem with through axle Son hubs too.

robyr

In fact, Schmidt specifically says not to grease skewers when using their hubs.