Thanks for all of the input, everyone.

Thanks especially to Marcus Ti for the new acronym: IDGAF. It took me about .3 seconds to figure that one out.

Regarding the Edge Explore: I am looking for something a bit more full-featured, and do want a computer that will connect to my Di2 drivetrain. But it is an interesting option.

“It” is ambiguous.

GRouteLoader doesn’t list the routes.

The routes in RWGPS are given a unique number.

You can enter that number into GRouteLoader to download the route.

It can be the number of any public route.

I would have thought you had to save the route to make it recent.

Pinning the route seems more appropriate.

I have not noticed that on mine; I run GPS and galileo together. Isn't it a setting for blacklight in map? If it's disable, the screen light all the time whereas in field mode, it goes to blacklight.

The competitors are those Garmin units....and for the money the same money they on-paper do a bit or a lots more feature wise. Of course, with Wahoo being configured on smartphone it is far more elegant than on-device config Garmin has used forever. I had an Edge705 that was pre-touchscreen, my god that was tedious to configure the data fields.

For a non-touchscreen fitness/bike computer...$380 is a very hard sell in 2019. Said another way--For $400USD on Amazon you can get a flagship-tier Xiaomi/Huawei Android smartphone that is full featured for that money, that does everything a smartphone does. BTW-Garmins are on BestBuys pre-black-friday sale, specifically the Fenix 5X watch is presently $300 even (about 40% off).

Fenix 5X is a great watch (with routable maps and navigation) but it's the previous generation, which means it should be on permasale.

I do agree $380 is a lot for a bike computer.

GRouteLoader does not list any route names in the RWGPS route list, thus you have to look up a route number prior to using the app. That's unfortunate and less then useful (IMO).

I had thought the RWGPS route list got re-ordered when you opened a route, that's not the case, so Pinning a route is likely the easiest way to keep a limited set of routes ready for download and viewable in the RWGPS iW app.

There is no “route list”.

It’s much easier and faster to use the phone to look up routes. Looking up routes on the device would be rather awful.

Note that the RWGPS app doesn’t let you do that either.

The RWGPS website shows a list of routes a user would have created. The RWGPS iQ app shows part of that list, the most recent, or you can select pinned routes, but you can at least see the name of the routes you’ve created from within the app.

It wasn't clear what list you were expecting the app to be displaying.

The RWGPS app doesn't show the user's routes.

It shows a very limited part of the list.

You can pin any route (not just your own).

But no one is really going to want to search for routes on the Garmin.

If you have the number, using GRouteLoader is fairly convenient.

But pinning the route is going to be much more convenient.

Karoo Hammerhead can show 4 data fields on the map screen

Curiosity question... Is it possible to use either the Garmin's or other GPS' without passing along any ride information with the company during updates? I'd like to track my ride information but don't really want anyone or any company to have access to my information. A colleague uses a Garmin watch and it sounds like he has to sync his watch with Garmin to perform updates.

I only update my devices via Garmin Express via USB on a PC. As far as I can tell, it’s just a download of the OS. Never noticed if they grab the ride data and I don’t do a backup.

It's possible but not very likely that Garmin does so without your permission. With GDPR (Europe's new privacy law) it would be quite illegal to do that without your permission. Garmin appears to be very serious about being GDPR compliant.

It's routine that your activities are uploaded to the Garmin Connect website but that should be opt-in to and something you can opt-out of

Garmin Express will do the upload of activities when you plug your device into your computer. But Garmin Express gives you the option to opt-out of uploading activities (it's a setting for the device).

It's not that hard to do the updates manually (avoiding Express entirely). Though, you might need Express for updating maps.

That is, I'd trust Garmin (at the moment) to do the right thing but you'd still have to take care (since the default is to upload data).

You would have to delete the activity records from the device before you sync it to do this.

Garmin used to let you opt out of sending the ride data to their server but they've changed this recently.

???

You can turn off auto upload in Garmin Connect Mobile.

You can turn off auto upload in Garmin Express.

(This is the case for the Edges. The watches should be the same.)

These options might be mandated by GRDP.

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I agree with this but I'm not sure I'd go for the ROAM. Got panned in a lot of a reviews. ELEMNT or BOLT probably a better choice.

I'm looking at it right now in Garmin Connect Mobile. The option for auto upload activities is disabled (grayed out). It isn't possible to turn it off. Go check yours.

I can't speak to Express, I haven't used it in years, I'm surprised anyone with a modern device does.

Yes. I download my data to my PC for analysis with Golden Cheetah, don't use Garmin Connect, and manually upload just the rides I want shared to ridewithgps and Strava.

I did check it (that's why I was surprised). The "Auto Upload" slider works. Maybe, it's not enabled for watches.

Being grayed-out suggests there should be something that would enable it.

Not pairing the device to your phone is another way to prevent it.

I checked Express too. Do the maps get updated through Connect Mobile?

I plug my device into my computer fairly regularly. So, using Express is reasonable in that case. Having Express also means having a smartphone isn't required (which is going to be useful for some people). Though, the modern devices also can use WiFi.

Having been burned with OTA system updates on other systems - iPhone, Di2, I only do updates via a cabled connector. Express works just fine for that and I’ve never had an issue. It’s the only time I plug my devices into a computer.

I have 3 Edge devices (810, Explore and 830). They all show a slider to enable/disable auto upload on Connect phone app.

I normally wouldn't rely on over the air updates, I'd never update my Di2 that way. Every now and then my watch informs me that the software was updated. I've never had an issue in years of doing this and at this point it requires literally no care on part. I would have to figure out how to turn this off, but in this case I have no reason to.

I charge mine with whatever is the most convenient USB outlet, often in the car. Sometimes that's the computer, but not often enough to require it on a workflow. And OTA syncing works so well now!

You're right that being disabled is a weird choice of it just can't be done; it would make more sense to just not show the control at all. I don't know what would enable it? I read, I think on Rainmaker, that they had disabled the option, and the app confirmed it in my case.

I can't fathom why this would be different for watches and cyclocomputers?

I don't know if the maps will update over BT or not but they will over wifi.

And you're right that not pairing your phone will prevent sending them your data, to the OP's question. Personally, I trust Garmin for the time being, and pairing provides too much value to not do.

And you can change the value? I can't. I can't imagine why they'd remove the option only for (high end) watches, but I believe you guys.

It's available for some devices and not others (apparently). Given that, it makes sense that the control is shown but disabled.

It is odd. It should be an option for every device.