paulrad9

Based upon the specs, my guess it that this new line may replace the 60-series. The 400t looks very attractive for biking but don't know if there is a way to mount it to a stem or handlebars. One nice feature is that the Colorado will connect to speed/cadence sensors and a hear rate monitor.

Some things I don't like are the size (somewhere between a Vista and a 60) and power consumption (15 hours of batter life as opposed to 20+ for the Visa).

n4zou

GPS devices like these are obsolete already. Mobile devices showing at CES have everything in the way of GPS and monitoring of body functions such as heart rate and temperature. The only thing currently missing is a bluetooth enabled cycle computer which is in the works. Monitor your heart rate, speed, location, listen to turn directions and power output and cadence at the crank all on your phone plus connectivity with with the internet by way of cell phone, bluetooth, and WiFi. Of course there is a camera as well!

Little Darwin

Is the GPS on cell phones satellite based, or is it only useful in places with cell phone coverage?

Also, why is there any push for a small phone that is a good phone without the other crap? I am sure that the quality of the cell phone part of the phone could be increased dramatically by eliminating everything else that I don't use. I don't want a one thing does everything device, I want a small phone with good battery life.

Also, since I am hijacking, I will do it all the way... I use an ear bud to keep the RF from the cell phone away from my head (probably paranoid, but it is easy to do), but I am curious as to why people would want a wireless communicator constantly plastered to their head. I realize that blue tooth is lower energy than a cell phone, but between potential risk and another battery to change, why do people buy into blue tooth? I know there is the cool factor, but is there any real advantage?

d_D

Mobile phones will no more obsolete GPS receivers than they obsoleted digital cameras, for largly the same reasons.

n4zou

All new cell phones are required to have a GPS receiver so the location of the phone user is provided to emergency responders.
Phones have evolved into mobile devices as can be seen at CES. They are software based so it's simple to add a small software program to it's functions with no additional battery draining or hardware costs to the mobile device.

Bluetooth is simply a way to eliminate cables. Bluetooth dongles and chips to implement Bluetooth into a divice are so cheap that using a cable to allow hardwiring the device would cost more to implement. Start adding up all the connectors, cables, jacks, adapters, and you soon realize why Bluetooth is becoming so popular. It also makes hooking everything up extremely easy. Instead of looking at the back of some product with a handful of cables and a cryptic hookup diagram you just turn on whatever Bluetooth enabled device you want to add and look for it to show up in the list, click on it to add it to your trusted devices and your done. Currently I am working on a Bluetooth enabled cycle computer. You simply add sensors to your bicycle that are Bluetooth enabled. Optionally you wear a heart rate and temperature sensor on your chest. Load the software on your mobile device or matching cycle computer and select the sensors as trusted devices. Now you can view all this data on your mobile device also making it possible to automatically upload this data via cell phone network, WiFi, or Bluetooth. The SAG could read all the data remotely and know who is in trouble or monitor training levels. You get the option of just buying the sensors and software for your mobile device dropping the cost as you already own a mobile device and would not need the dedicated cycle computer. Of cource if you dont want or have a mobile device the cycle computer would display the sensor data and as it's not using or capable of using a cell phone network no related charges would be required. Stopping by a WiFi or network Bluetooth hot spot would allow uploading data of your ride.
Verizon is opening up there network at the end of this year (2008) so be on the lookout for an explosion of new technology like a Bluetooth enabled bicycle!

rmac

REI appears to have the Garmin Colorado 400t in stock now. Anyone know the difference between this and the Edge 705 besides the power meter function? The Colorado takes AA batteries which solves the problem for long rides.

gps_dr

This is in reply to several postings above:

REI doesn't have the Colorado yet according to their website:

* Sizes and colors marked with an asterisk(*) are currently out of stock, but can be backordered.

Talked to Garmin Rep this week, still not slated to be available until Feb.

The Colorado has 96,000 pixels as opposed to the Edge's 38,720 pixels.
Does not include the virtual partner features the Edge has. You can load street maps also on either unit.
The Edge would be preferred as a training device, but as a multi-purpose unit, the Colorado is better.
The 400t includes topo loaded for the US and a shaded relief basemap of the world.
It allows for 3D terrain views on the unit.

The Colorado has a high sensitivity receiver, the Vista with it's high sensitivity receiver has an 18 hour battery life rating.
(Not much difference, especially considering it's processing load.)
They can use rechargeable batteries, so it's not that much of an issue anyway.

Unless you are competing in a race, the size/weight of the unit within reason should be fairly immaterial.
Larger screen is far superior for use while riding. The Colorado also replaces the features of the cycle computer if you have the speed/cadence sensor.

There are handlebar mounts for the unit, am hoping Ram-Mount will have their version shortly as I
have a 400t on order from Garmin.

As to saying it's obsolete is ludicrous.
The devices mentioned don't have the screen-size, waterproofness, durability etc. of the GPS.
Haven't seen the screens on the phones mentioned, but haven't seen one yet you could read in sunlight on a bar.
I wouldn't think of mounting my GPS equipped cell phone on my mountain bike.
Too small, too fragile, not waterproof, won't mark spots, trails etc.
Silly cell phone can't even handle having a button pressed while playing music - cuts out.

quester

Names, models, links, details!

quester

Really? Are you sure you're not just talking about a way to triangulate via cell towers?

rmac

From REI website:

"REI Exclusive until 2/11/08!"

Does this mean they have an exclusive on not having it in?

n4zou

GPS-Enabled Cell Phones

The increased demand for enhanced 911 (e911) emergency calling capabilities, stimulated by the events of 11 September 2001, has pushed forward GPS tracking technology in cell phones. At the end of 2005, all cell phone carriers were required to provide the ability to trace cell phone calls to a location within 100 meters or less.

To comply with FCC requirements, cell phone carriers decided to integrate GPS technology into cell phone handsets, rather than overhaul the tower network. However the GPS in most cell phones are not like those in your handy GPS receiver that you take hiking. Most cell phones do not allow the user direct access to the GPS data, accurate location determination requires the assistance of the wireless network, and the GPS data is transmitted only if a 911 emergency call is made.
Complete link to this article is here.
https://www.travelbygps.com/articles/tracking.php

operator

Please show me a cell phone which includes power and cadence and all those other nice features you mention. I'm espeically interested in the power output.

n4zou

Enabling GPS navigation is easy for new mobile devices like a Palm or Blackberry is easy. All you need is software and a bluetooth GPS unit. Here is the software.
https://www.cetusgps.dk/ this software is ready to download and use with supported mobile devices.
If you want to develop your own software for the Palm platform you can download GPS4Palm here.
https://gps4palm.sourceforge.net/
The software package includes all source code and is a very good example of how to code a program for any platform. it also includes fetchmap allowing you to "fetch" the map currently on your mobile device, save it to your device, and allow your mobile device to automatically load that map when the GPS unit is in the area covered by that map. This allows you to continually update maps without being charged for that service. You can also make your own maps and run a paper map across a scanner and use it on your mobile device or PDA.
I'm currently working with a group to develop a Bluetooth enabled cycle computer system with off the shelf hardware. this development hardware is currently available at www.mouser.com
A basic stamp microprocessor provides the bicycles Bluetooth connection and interface for sensors.
https://www.parallax.com/Store/Microc...%2cProductName

This is coupled with a GPS unit.
https://www.tycoelectronics.com/gps/modules.asp

After development and testing this product will allow any mobile device or PDA to become a bicycle specific cycle computer with the ability to upload data to any other internet connected device.

n4zou

The bluetooth enabled basic stamp has 8 input or output connections for sensors. More than enough for cadence and power sensors and as the basic stamp is programmable it's easily adapted to any manufacturer's sensors. This allows reusing your current hardware. As for the phone showing these functions, thats in the software. You would simply purchase the software package for your smart phone/mobile device or PDA along with the hardware. You would select these features from your phones menu working the same as bringing up the phones camera or dialing menu. You would simply select the bicycle icon and all sensors connected to the bikes microprocessor would be displayed along with a moving map background like wallpaper.

rockabilly808

maybe I'm just old school but i've never understood why people need GPS on their bike, but then again I live on an island....

rmac

Those of us that are directionally and map challenged need all the help we can get.

I saw the Colorado at an REI last weekend and it is very large. Did not like the scroll wheel either. Think I'll get the 705 when it comes out.

Bolo Grubb

I don't need a gps unit for the bike, but it is neat and I am a data junkie

rockabilly808

gotcha

Photosmith

There's three main contributions to GPS accuracy:

1) WAAS capability - without it, no better than 10 meter accuracy. With it, 3-5 meter accuracy on average.
2) Antenna - A patch antenna is pretty omnidirectional, but only something like 50% as efficient as a Quadrifilar Helix when the Quad Helix is oriented correctly. This of course means sometimes the patch antenna actually tunes a better signal, but the potential is higher with the Quad Helix.
3) Chip design - There's a variety of GPS chips out there and they are not all equal. The latest, greatest are those with the SiRF chipset. Those have the quickest, most accurate signal acquisition and tracking, especially under cover and in obstructed areas.

The reason I bother pointing all this out is that generally the Palm-Pilot and cel phone style GPS will be acceptable for automobile driving directions, but it will never be as accurate as dedicated units like the high end stuff from Garmin. It's up to the user to decide what fits their budget and demands of course, but remember that not all GPS receivers are equal.

n4zou

The Palm pilot is an antique. New Palms are many generations ahead of those things. Garmin does not produce there own components. They have there products produced by manufactures like every one else. Currently Tyco electronics holds the patent on SiRF GPS technology and is the sole source for SiRF GPS receiver chip sets.
https://www.tycoelectronics.com/gps/modules.asp
The latest Tyco Electronics’ SiRF chip set is the III generation A1080-A. This is the chip set used in all GPS receivers with SiRF III labeling. This is true for all suppliers including Garmin. Hand held computers, and PDA's do not have GPS receivers built into these devices. These devices use a wireless connection to a bluetooth capable GPS unit. If you purchase a bluetooth GPS unit with SiRF III chip set you get GPS accuracy as good as any other SiRF III equiped GPS receiver. Smart Phones have a GPS receiver but may not allow you to access the internal GPS receiver without purchasing that function from your cell phone network provider as is the case with cell phone only devices. Purchasing a SiRF III wireless GPS unit avoids extra charges from your cell phone network provider and you get a much better GPS receiver as well. Currently DX has a SiRF III bluetooth receiver for $61.68.
https://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.10614

This receiver is just as accurate as any other GPS unit with SiRF III chip sets including the Garmin units. It also is paired with there smart GPS antenna.
https://www.tycoelectronics.com/gps/smart.asp